Just curious as to your thoughts on its ability as a weapon as opposed to a utility blade. I know it's supposed to be crazy sharp and all, but is the liner lock suitable for defense?
Also, what do you feel are the best Spydercos for self-defense? (I know the obvious answers would be the MBC ones, but none of those really do anything for me.)
Military as a self-defense folder?
In all truth I belive I could take off someones head with about 3 swipes.
<img src=http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink36.gif
<img src=http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink36.gif
The Saint,
I was thinking Civilian, Matriarch, Hawkbill. All those curved Spyderedged Blades are good for self defence in my opinion. reason? the curved blade looks evil and also the "teeth" can bite into and rip off flesh / clothing better than a plain edged spydie. Good "slashing" cuts.
But then a curved blade might not be suitable for stabbing...
Thanks and have a nice day,
Kaizer.
A door half open is a door half closed. But a knife half open is a knife fully closed.
I was thinking Civilian, Matriarch, Hawkbill. All those curved Spyderedged Blades are good for self defence in my opinion. reason? the curved blade looks evil and also the "teeth" can bite into and rip off flesh / clothing better than a plain edged spydie. Good "slashing" cuts.
But then a curved blade might not be suitable for stabbing...
Thanks and have a nice day,
Kaizer.
A door half open is a door half closed. But a knife half open is a knife fully closed.
Aloha saint!
Ahhh, one of my fave topics! but first, the military is an ideal defense knife. Just read jsmith's reply! Be advised that just because a folder is MBC rated, doesn't mean a thing unless you train! I feel confident that I can beat a guy who has a Yojimbo with my Cricket simply because I train...In essence, it's not the knife, it's the user.
My defense faves are Endura, Delica, Matriarch, Merlin, Rescue, Spyderhawk, Goddard FRN, Dragonfly,Cricket, and the Native...As you can see, none of these are MBC rated, yet i know what I can do with them, I know what I can't do with them either.
God forbid you should need to defend life and limb w/ a knife, but whatever knife you have on you is the one that's "the best".
God will put you over...if you let Him! Mark 11:23!
Ahhh, one of my fave topics! but first, the military is an ideal defense knife. Just read jsmith's reply! Be advised that just because a folder is MBC rated, doesn't mean a thing unless you train! I feel confident that I can beat a guy who has a Yojimbo with my Cricket simply because I train...In essence, it's not the knife, it's the user.
My defense faves are Endura, Delica, Matriarch, Merlin, Rescue, Spyderhawk, Goddard FRN, Dragonfly,Cricket, and the Native...As you can see, none of these are MBC rated, yet i know what I can do with them, I know what I can't do with them either.
God forbid you should need to defend life and limb w/ a knife, but whatever knife you have on you is the one that's "the best".
God will put you over...if you let Him! Mark 11:23!
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brownie0486
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
I was at one time a linerlock type of guy and carried many a nice custom and production linerlock over the last decade.
Now I carry only lockbacks or framelocks for personal defense for a few reasons. The locks are less prone to failure than the linerlock under severe stresses laterally or to the blades spine.
I'll have to asume that a SD situation where I'm going to use a folder will have to be considered stressful, dynamic and all out fight for survival.
Thats no time to find out the linerlock disengaged and has cut/chopped your own fingers to the bone or worse in a violent encounter.
I've seen the Military models lose their tips several times hitting a hard surface from waist high, let alone a belt buckle, button, whatever may get in the way.
It's nice to think your defensive folder will get you through the day and be sturdy enough to do what's needed to be done, but that could be wishful thinking carrying a linerlock.
My personal opinion based on years of carrying them, havung firends who carry them and reading the forums is that many carry that type of folder as they are easily wrist flicked open and depolyment is usually a little or a lot faster than other types of locking folders dependant on whose hands it's in and their practice at deployingthe folder under stress.
I was certainly guilty of this myself and developed a technique that is very quick to get the linerlocks into play as thats what I carried day in and day out for years.
I've now come to realize that if I can not rely 100% on the folder to withstand hard use and lateral lock/spine stresses which it may have to endure in a struggle, deployment is going to be the least of the problems for me defensively.
Just a thought, no linerlocks for defensivive purposes for this guy based on linerlocks failing at the most inopportune time.
When the bacon is on the line, you'll need that folder to be as strong in lockup as you can find. That does not describe a linerlock in my mind.
Brownie
Now I carry only lockbacks or framelocks for personal defense for a few reasons. The locks are less prone to failure than the linerlock under severe stresses laterally or to the blades spine.
I'll have to asume that a SD situation where I'm going to use a folder will have to be considered stressful, dynamic and all out fight for survival.
Thats no time to find out the linerlock disengaged and has cut/chopped your own fingers to the bone or worse in a violent encounter.
I've seen the Military models lose their tips several times hitting a hard surface from waist high, let alone a belt buckle, button, whatever may get in the way.
It's nice to think your defensive folder will get you through the day and be sturdy enough to do what's needed to be done, but that could be wishful thinking carrying a linerlock.
My personal opinion based on years of carrying them, havung firends who carry them and reading the forums is that many carry that type of folder as they are easily wrist flicked open and depolyment is usually a little or a lot faster than other types of locking folders dependant on whose hands it's in and their practice at deployingthe folder under stress.
I was certainly guilty of this myself and developed a technique that is very quick to get the linerlocks into play as thats what I carried day in and day out for years.
I've now come to realize that if I can not rely 100% on the folder to withstand hard use and lateral lock/spine stresses which it may have to endure in a struggle, deployment is going to be the least of the problems for me defensively.
Just a thought, no linerlocks for defensivive purposes for this guy based on linerlocks failing at the most inopportune time.
When the bacon is on the line, you'll need that folder to be as strong in lockup as you can find. That does not describe a linerlock in my mind.
Brownie
I don't think I'd have too much of a problem stabbing with my Civilian. Plus with the Kraton inserts I know I would hang on to it. As far as the best "stabber" I'd say a C50GP Centofante 2 would be best. Plus it has the "secure lock".
I'd love to have the Civie reverse grip in the weak hand and the Centa in the strong. But would probably have to settle for my Milie as it is currently my EDC.
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MAT<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>TER
I'd love to have the Civie reverse grip in the weak hand and the Centa in the strong. But would probably have to settle for my Milie as it is currently my EDC.
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MAT<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>TER
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Photoplanet
- Member
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Scotland United Kingdom
- Contact:
I have just acquired my second Military, a plain edge CPM440v model, to supplement my first generation PE ATS34 Mil.
On the older knife, hard use has rendered the lockup slighlty less firm than when new, the liner travels much further across the locking angle than it used to. When I stripped the knife recently, I found out why.... The screw that passes through the blade stop pin had bent to a noticeable degree (the original versions had longer handle screws that pass tight through the handle, rather than the current setup of half length torx screws from both sides).
I am in the process of trying to obtain a replacement set of long screws for the knife (Spyderco haven't yet answered my email, neither have Benchmade. I have some screws in the mail from a fastener company, but these may be 1mm too short).
I also have a Benchmade/Emerson CQC-7, and this seems a much more sturdy handle, having titanium liners beneath the G-10. I prefer the plade on the Mili though, as it doesn't have a notch at the rear of the edge to snag on things I'm cutting.
One chance......Be ready.
On the older knife, hard use has rendered the lockup slighlty less firm than when new, the liner travels much further across the locking angle than it used to. When I stripped the knife recently, I found out why.... The screw that passes through the blade stop pin had bent to a noticeable degree (the original versions had longer handle screws that pass tight through the handle, rather than the current setup of half length torx screws from both sides).
I am in the process of trying to obtain a replacement set of long screws for the knife (Spyderco haven't yet answered my email, neither have Benchmade. I have some screws in the mail from a fastener company, but these may be 1mm too short).
I also have a Benchmade/Emerson CQC-7, and this seems a much more sturdy handle, having titanium liners beneath the G-10. I prefer the plade on the Mili though, as it doesn't have a notch at the rear of the edge to snag on things I'm cutting.
One chance......Be ready.
Daywalker Posted: ! I feel confident that I can beat a guy who has a Yojimbo with my Cricket simply because I train...In essence, it's not the knife, it's the user.>>>>
You hit it on the head. We often see this argument among martial artists, as well; "My style will beat your style".
With the idea that it's the person in the fight that matters, I'll say that I obtain the best equipment that I possibly can.
I own a few linerlock knives that have liners thicker than most knife blades; there's no way they're going to fail. I have total confidence in them, as I've put them through some brutal torture and they've held up great; tight lock-up and no blade play.
In fact, the only knife lock that I've ever had fail me was the ball lock on my first Dodo.
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
You hit it on the head. We often see this argument among martial artists, as well; "My style will beat your style".
With the idea that it's the person in the fight that matters, I'll say that I obtain the best equipment that I possibly can.
I own a few linerlock knives that have liners thicker than most knife blades; there's no way they're going to fail. I have total confidence in them, as I've put them through some brutal torture and they've held up great; tight lock-up and no blade play.
In fact, the only knife lock that I've ever had fail me was the ball lock on my first Dodo.
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
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Jimmy_Dean
- Member
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Montreal Canada
The best line I heard about fighting with knives is this one: Everything is better than finger nails. Like DayWalker said, a Cricket can be very good in a SD situation if you know how to use it. So basically I agree with all of you guys, and I'm sure the milie would be very effective. I'd probably go for a Gunting myself though....or better yet, a SpyderSaw! That will certainly give the BG secind thoughts!!
-Dean
-Dean
You can have every confidence in your military as a defensive knife!
I have carried and trained with one for several years now and have never had it offer to fold up. I taped a phone book to my heavy bag to practice thrusts and while I destroyed the locking mechanism of a Cold Steel Scimitar, the Military came out totally unscathed and secure. I was hitting that book so hard that I bruised the heel of my hand and sent the bag flying, but there was no problem with the lock mechanism. I could even feel the handle warp and twist in my hand but it always came back to true and that lock never came loose.
I especially like the design of the relationship of the angle of the blade with the design of the blade to that of the handle. If you trace it out on paper you see that over all you have a khukri style angle leading right into that great belly. this makes the Military slash and slice with far more effectiveness then even a larger straighter bladed knife.
But with the design of the blade, the point is just as perfect for thrusting. I believed that Military was so well designed that I had a custom maker scale it up to a five inch bladed fixed blade which my teacher thought was one of the best small fighting knives he's ever handled.
I have carried and trained with one for several years now and have never had it offer to fold up. I taped a phone book to my heavy bag to practice thrusts and while I destroyed the locking mechanism of a Cold Steel Scimitar, the Military came out totally unscathed and secure. I was hitting that book so hard that I bruised the heel of my hand and sent the bag flying, but there was no problem with the lock mechanism. I could even feel the handle warp and twist in my hand but it always came back to true and that lock never came loose.
I especially like the design of the relationship of the angle of the blade with the design of the blade to that of the handle. If you trace it out on paper you see that over all you have a khukri style angle leading right into that great belly. this makes the Military slash and slice with far more effectiveness then even a larger straighter bladed knife.
But with the design of the blade, the point is just as perfect for thrusting. I believed that Military was so well designed that I had a custom maker scale it up to a five inch bladed fixed blade which my teacher thought was one of the best small fighting knives he's ever handled.
Aloha jimmy dean!
Spydersaw?!!
YIPES! BTW, Saint I am not in any way saying that i am a Bad @$$, it's just that I train due to my occupation. So I know what I can and can't do. Like Jim, I've experienced more violent confrontations than most people will in their lifetime many times over. It's part of our "9-5"...
Something touted as a "super Combat Knife" with a "mega ton" lock rating is fine. But owning one is only part of the equation to SD success.
Whatever you choose, train safely and smart.
God will put you over...if you let Him! John 14: 13,14...try it, it WORKS!
Edited by - DAYWALKER on 5/11/2004 3:42:24 AM
Spydersaw?!!
YIPES! BTW, Saint I am not in any way saying that i am a Bad @$$, it's just that I train due to my occupation. So I know what I can and can't do. Like Jim, I've experienced more violent confrontations than most people will in their lifetime many times over. It's part of our "9-5"...
Something touted as a "super Combat Knife" with a "mega ton" lock rating is fine. But owning one is only part of the equation to SD success.
Whatever you choose, train safely and smart.
God will put you over...if you let Him! John 14: 13,14...try it, it WORKS!
Edited by - DAYWALKER on 5/11/2004 3:42:24 AM
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sc_rebel1957
- Member
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: SOUTH CAROLINA USA
- Contact:
On the older knife, hard use has rendered the lockup slighlty less firm than when new, the liner travels much further across the locking angle than it used to. When I stripped the knife recently, I found out why.
I'm just guessing here my friend, but obviously you dunno the Millie has a eccentric piviot pin, which can be adjusted for liner wear.
Loosen up the piviot screw, but don't take it all the way out.
Now put pressure on the screw until the piviot pin protrudes slightly out of the scale.
You will notice what looks somewhat like gear cogs on the piviot pin. turn it 1 notch clockwise and retighten the screw, that should bring the liner engagement back to center on the blade tang......if not reapeat the process. hope this helps, Ron
http://www.geocities.com/joyce43_c/RONSKNIFESHOP
I'm just guessing here my friend, but obviously you dunno the Millie has a eccentric piviot pin, which can be adjusted for liner wear.
Loosen up the piviot screw, but don't take it all the way out.
Now put pressure on the screw until the piviot pin protrudes slightly out of the scale.
You will notice what looks somewhat like gear cogs on the piviot pin. turn it 1 notch clockwise and retighten the screw, that should bring the liner engagement back to center on the blade tang......if not reapeat the process. hope this helps, Ron
http://www.geocities.com/joyce43_c/RONSKNIFESHOP
hi,i think knifes are made for diferent tasks.i own an almar s.e.r.e2000 and it was tested with a hard grip and the lock never was even moved.in fact they hired a few teenegers to test a few nice knifes:
´´2002 sporting knifes´´ by joe kertzman.
strikes to cut 2-3 inch limbs
almar sere 2-6
benchmade axis 710 6-19
chris reeve sebenza 1-2
microtec socom 6-17
spyderco military 4-8
spyderco james keating 10-27
NOTE:the few the strikes the better,in a cold and stressful situation can go down when you are tired and motion can slow down,so how many time your fire can go on??.
this is a book i bought in u.s.
unfourtunatly these teenagers managed to bend the milytary model,but this didnt afected the cuting test.they said is to light for this chores.this book has the all arround knifes and still for 2002 is the best i can have here.have you try the almar sere 2000.daywalker??
THE BEST KNIFE IS THE ONE YOUR HAND AND HEART LIKES
´´2002 sporting knifes´´ by joe kertzman.
strikes to cut 2-3 inch limbs
almar sere 2-6
benchmade axis 710 6-19
chris reeve sebenza 1-2
microtec socom 6-17
spyderco military 4-8
spyderco james keating 10-27
NOTE:the few the strikes the better,in a cold and stressful situation can go down when you are tired and motion can slow down,so how many time your fire can go on??.
this is a book i bought in u.s.
unfourtunatly these teenagers managed to bend the milytary model,but this didnt afected the cuting test.they said is to light for this chores.this book has the all arround knifes and still for 2002 is the best i can have here.have you try the almar sere 2000.daywalker??
THE BEST KNIFE IS THE ONE YOUR HAND AND HEART LIKES