Emerson Wave feature on Matriarch or Endura - how do you like it?

[DansGunBlog]

Hi guys!

Curious to hear from folks who went with the Wave version of the Endura or Matriarch... how do you like it?

Any reason you wish you'd gone with the non-Wave version?

Looking to get the Matriarch 2 - trying to decide between Wave or non-Wave. :)

Thanks!
Dan

[Studey]

While the wave is very fast, I don't prefer it for a few reasons.

1) It tends to foul easily under pressure (and compression), and when it does, people generally start swinging their arm widely trying to inertia it open. This a) leads to an opening for your assailant to gain control of your arm, and b) tends to result in flying knives.

2) It requires a greater range of movement than simply drawing the knife from your pocket and bracing it on your hip. You don't HAVE to draw backwards, there are ways to minimize the rearward movement, but regardless, it does provide a greater window for your opponent to gain control over your weapon bearing limb.

3) You have a more tenuous grip on the knife. Once pressure is introduced and space is compressed, again, knives tend to go flying.

4) Similar to #3, since it requires more room, it doesn't tend to work as well in tighter spaces, whether that's on the ground, back against something, etc. The necessary rearward elbow articulation isn't always available. I realize that in that case, you can just open the knife manually, but I'd prefer to have one standard method of deployment, as it makes for a more robust approach.

In conclusion, I've found that while it looks flashy, it doesn't hold up well to true pressure testing. The one caveat I'll make is when the knife is carried spine forward and drawn forward into a reverse grip, particularly when the knife is rolled inboard into edge in. That draw stroke tends to work pretty well.

[Razzle]

My experience pretty much mimics Studeys, including the last statement.....I also carry spine forward, drawing to a reverse grip. (was sooooo used to carrying the P'Kal in this fashion)

The wave works very very well....for me.

[DansGunBlog]

Thanks guys, that's some great feedback.

So what I'm hearing... the Wave DOES work well for reverse grip extraction if you practice it enough to have muscle memory. Is that about right?

That's fair, no different than practicing your handgun draw all the way through sights on target, proper, stance, proper grip, etc. regularly and until it's muscle memory.

@Studey @Razzle can you guys elaborate on the specifics for carry and draw with the reverse grip as it works best for the Wave?

i.e. I see this done with a bead/lanyard so keep the knife from flying in a high stress situation. what tips, specifics can you share?

Thanks!
Dan

[akaAK]

Not to derail but they work great for opening up beer. I have only used them on the endure and delica but agree that the extra movement on the draw is something I couldn't get used too. I find the plain old spyder hole to be most efficient for me. I find the opening pretty reliable but for utility purposes nothing SD or tactical in my uses.

[DrtyHarry]

I have the wave feature on some other knives, am actually doing a custom job myself on one very soon. With enough practice….they are really incredible devices. I prefer my wave knives to have a ring for an even more secure grip. I'm putting a wave on a Brous Karambit right now, I had a great deal of training with the Karambit…and I feel a great deal safer with one than with a regular folder. Karambits are amazing knives in the right hands, my trainer was phenomenal with one. Small blade, fast and deep cuts….the BG usually doesn't even see that you have the blade on you. And the karambits I have with the wave feature…with the speed I can deploy one out from my pocket, it's brutal and scary to see. We practiced cuts on different large pieces of pork (with the skin and all)…my god, with the right cut….you are sure to hit bone every time. I thankfully never had to use one, but if I did…I would use it as fast as I could…and make for the hills. It's really amazing how a blade so small can inflict so much damage. Size really isn't everything!

[Archimedes]

I personally don't like the wave. My knife is first a foremost a tool for cutting apples and such. Hopefully not bad apples. I have practiced with the wave, but came to the conclusion years ago that for me, it does not work. I have often wondered how many people have been attacked and successfully waved a knife out of there pocket and won the fight. I have never heard of one. I am sure there are people who can do it but those same people can probably beat you senseless with bare hands. I am also curious how much faster it is compared to someone who has practiced with a plain Spyder hole in terms of draw speed. Failure to wave it open, as noted above, in a fight can leave a knife partially open at this point it is neither a knife or an impact weapon, it is a liability. This is all based on using the wave as a defensive weapon assuming you are under attack.

Disclaimer; I am not a Ninja.

[Archimedes]

One more thought based on personal carry habits. I like to carry the Matriarch or Civilian completely concealed not in a front pocket with a clip showing. If you try to draw the knife with a wave out of a front jacket pocket it can snag open in your pocket, whatever, you get the idea. The lack of a wave gives me more carry options, possible slower draw speed but if you are already under a serious attack you may have to work with open hand defense or find a way to escape. If you are being attacked with a knife and the attacker has gotten the upper hand it is a real bad situation, wave or not.

[ZMW]

with practice I love the wave on my Matriarch 2. The speed of opening can not be matched by any other folder. I also feel that the grip you have while not 100% ideal, is more then strong enough to fight off an attacker with (and there is a high percentage that once an attacker sees you open that nice fast as **** they back off, then you can regrip if needed).

[Studey]

Thanks guys, that's some great feedback.

So what I'm hearing... the Wave DOES work well for reverse grip extraction if you practice it enough to have muscle memory. Is that about right?

That's fair, no different than practicing your handgun draw all the way through sights on target, proper, stance, proper grip, etc. regularly and until it's muscle memory.

@Studey @Razzle can you guys elaborate on the specifics for carry and draw with the reverse grip as it works best for the Wave?

i.e. I see this done with a bead/lanyard so keep the knife from flying in a high stress situation. what tips, specifics can you share?

Thanks!
Dan

Dan,

The wave CAN work well in either forward or reverse, but as mentioned, I've seen the draw be successful more frequently when drawn into a reverse grip. It has nothing to do with the grip and everything to do with the mechanics of the draw. That's why DrtyHarry has seen the draw work well for him...it's being drawn forward into a reverse grip.

Specifically, if the knife is carried forward in the pocket, think of drawing the knife toward your sternum, closer to your center. This makes sure the wave engages the pocket lip properly. If the knife is carried along the back seam of the pocket, roll the knife slightly outboard to help the wave catch, and draw forward and up.

As far as using a lanyard, don't. Many people who do so are grabbing the lanyard, waving the knife, and then choking up on the handle, when that same time would be better spent on getting a better initial grip prior to drawing the knife.

[Lonehunter]

Two issues for me 1. I'm in gym shorts a fair part of most days and often the shorts are pulled way up with the draw.
2. It also often kinda double snaps when in jeans , upon the draw you'll here what sounds like two lock ups when in fact it bounces off the ,lock bar and does not lock up

Oh just thought of #3 some jeans I wear have a deep over sewn corner that the wave catches like a fish hook and the knife does not pull out of the pocket .hard to describe ....

[ZMW]

The type of pants is definitely key. Gym shorts are a no go. I only carry it when I am wearing the right type of jeans or pants. But, when it is done correctly it is a fast draw.

[DrtyHarry]

That's why DrtyHarry has seen the draw work well for him...it's being drawn forward into a reverse grip.

THIS!!! Aside for the many many months of practice, I would NEVER NEVER carry something that I put my life on the line with that I can't trust 10000%.

It is really scary how fast and effective an experienced user with a Karambit can be....especially with such a small 2.5"-3" blade. EXTREMELY LETHAL in the right hands. I'd much carry my 2.6" karambit over my 5" Tatanka any day. If I didn't know how to effectively use a Karambit, I'd probably end up causing more damage to myself. With that said.....and I can't stress this enough, if you plan to learn how to use a karambit....GET A TRAINING KNIFE to practice with. 2 actually....one for you and your training partner. If you see someone whip out a karambit and looks like he knows what he is doing....just RUN! Or shoot....lol

[twinboysdad]

The D4 waves better than the E4 IMO. I too have been there, tried it and moved on. It works and I see it really useful for jobs that require you not letting go with one hand in a pinch. As far as SD, get a fixed blade if you are being sincere. They require neither a wave nor thumbhole/stud and never fold. I love the shape of the E4 and honestly would grind the wave off, don't love the D4 waved shape too much. I also think excessive waving loosens the lock and will create blade play sooner than normal deployment. I will not call it a fad because it works but you have to be committed to waving to get it down and I seldomly needed to wave. Spyderco waves work better than EKI to me as well

[Anubisman]

The P'kal opens much faster than either the waved delica or endura. If you are going to carry a waved Spyderco, the P'kal gets my vote. In any event one needs to practice so the draw becomes ground into muscle memory. I can flip my Karambitsong karambit open in the dark or with my eyes closed as a result of practice.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Not to derail but they work great for opening up beer. I have only used them on the endure and delica but agree that the extra movement on the draw is something I couldn't get used too. I find the plain old spyder hole to be most efficient for me. I find the opening pretty reliable but for utility purposes nothing SD or tactical in my uses.

akaAK and others: That was actually a question I had, I am glad you mentioned it: While that was not it's intended use as far as I know, does the Wave feature on the blade make use as a general-purpose bottle opener? This is another plus for me because I can use it to open pop tops on bottles of drinks.

[Razzle]

The wave opens bottles just fine. It's not as elegant as a dedicated bottle opener, but it works.

[akaAK]

Like Razzle says, not as elegant, but I am far from elegant so it does the job for me. In Canada we are not restricted in carrying knives other than for Self Defense (weapons). If you can reasonably justify a machete you are free to carry it. Emphasis on reasonably.

A waved Delica makes a whole lotta sense at a BBQ. Funny enough but that is were I use mine the most. I can use the wave to pull it out and cut something while my other hand is occupied.

Again sorry for the derail on a primarily SD thread.

[Razzle]

Should also add, I run a short piece of black paracord through the lanyard hole and melt the ends, blobs flush with the scales......gives me more of a tactile point of reference whenst drawing the knife.

We need more fun words, like "whenst" in our vocabularies.

[DansGunBlog]

We need more fun words, like "whenst" in our vocabularies.

Touché