Hunting Discussion: Note: Some Controversy

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I would welcome all views and opinions and feedback on a discussion about hunting: recreational vs market and all in between.

I was reading about the "market hunters"; these were the people who would hunt large numbers of animals and birds and sell the parts and meat of them for a living. This happened before "bag limits" on how many animals you could kill and catch and keep.

The three main categories of hunters/hunting appear to be:

1 Market Hunters
2 Subsistence Hunters
3 Recreational Hunters

Subsistence hunters are those who hunt animals primarily for meat and to personally and locally consume the animals.
Recreation hunters hunt for the sport and also may eat some of the animal.
Market hunters mainly did it and do it for the ability to sell the hides and meat and other parts.

Some overlap may occur between and amongst the groups.

Now, first of all, without going to the extreme of the animal rights' world, do you all believe that in our current/modern world there needs to be bag limits because, if all laws about hunting were put back to where they were before the limits, people would kill too many of the animals and it would endanger their population?

Interestingly, it was the recreational hunters along with some subsistence hunters who helped to advocate for bag limits and hunting rules because of the extremes taken by the market hunters. Some of the market hunters would come home with like 200 or 300 birds or animals at a time! WOW! And I read that some of them would pack their shotguns with scrap metal just to kill and take down more birds and animals.

Here are some links about this:

http://www.museum.state.il.us/RiverWeb/ ... nting.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/punt-gu ... wild-fowl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was called a Punt Gun. It was designed to discharge huge amounts of shot to kill masses of waterfowl/birds.

Market hunting is considered poaching in today's world, unless one gets special permits or licenses to do it, but I don't think those exist.

Another question: Commercial fishing is basically market hunting in the water. Why do you think society accepted commercial fishing (which in some ways is now facing severe limits, though this is debated; and laws have been passed to control fishing, as well) while halting or trying to halt commercial hunting, earlier? Is it simply because there have been larger numbers of fish than animals and birds?

Another question: In the USA and some other places it is illegal for persons to kill marine mammals such as whales and dolphins and other animals. This is to protect their populations. However, if a group of people were able to commercially FARM MARINE MAMMALS, say, somehow have an offshore Dolphin or Whale farm that had sea pens and where they provided food and everything, like is done with aqua culture/ fish farms, do you think this would be allowed and accepted or not? Since in this case, the creatures are being managed and reproduced in a controlled way.

can you imagine orca/killer whale farms? wow.

Supposedly, when the first Europeans arrived in the Americas, the fish and wildlife were so plentiful that you could take a large basket, dip it into the water in many rivers, and bring up a whole mass of fish with little work. Do you think that's true?

I would also welcome your views as to your speculation about the future: As human population increases in some areas, and as there is pressure to build more modern cities and urban habitats, will we see increasing decreases of certain animal populations, or, how do you think it will work out?

A friend of mine who is big into Star Trek type science fiction told me he envisions a world like the Star Trek "Federation Earth" where super technologies like nanotechnology replicators, cheap nuclear fusion, and cheap space travel, allow humans to build beautiful self repairing self maintaining cities, and where farmland and other lands are reclaimed and transformed into beautiful natural parks, and humans and animals will live on a pollution-free wonderful planet Earth, and the masses of humans will expand into space: First to build colonies on the Moon, Mars, and outer planets and the Asteroid Belt, and also artificial enclosed earthlike habitats in space, and then onwards to spread out into the universe and colonize other star systems and eventually whole galaxies, and self replicating robots will do all the menial and hard labor for people, and the manufacturing, and the entire human race will all be, from childhood, rich, educated, happy, have expanded life spans, and unlimited energy, food, goods, health, and medical care; provided by robots and super technologies.

How realistic do you think his perspective is? (PS: I do not want to get into a politics discussion but unlike myself, this person considers himself a "Democratic Socialist", but, he is totally against all anti knife and anti gun laws; he wants a global democratic socialist Star Trek like world government, while also having peace and individual freedom, where people can own and carry any gun, knife, or sword they want. I know this because I asked his opinions on that issue, and I am glad that unlike a lot of such people, he supports and believes in knife-rights.)

He also thinks any animals that go extinct or have become extinct, and which we can find their DNA patterns, we will be able to remake them.

Now a related issue: What do you all think of this? I read that there are biomimetic/biological scientists who are trying to learn to make synthetic rhino and elephant ivory horns, so they can flood the global market with synthetic rhino horn and elephant horn, to overwhelm the poachers and make it so poaching for the ivory stops. Is this a realistic goal or not?

[awa54]

Wow that's a can-o-worms!

Market hunting/poaching = bad and IMO was restricted before commercial fishing for several reasons. First, aquaculture was not developed until recently, whereas domestic land animals have been food sources for millennia, easy to get your red meat fix from cattle, not so easy to get your fish w/o them being wild caught. Next, land owners in the past and Govt. these days have always sought to conserve/regulate the resources that are within their control, the ocean is far less controllable than land. On top of that fluffy bunnies, colorful birdies and bambi are cute and you can see their population dwindling in your own neighborhood if they're over hunted, slimy fish aren't very charismatic and they live in the big, mysterious, and all plentiful ocean, so it's easier to ignore it if they're being depopulated too quickly.

Subsistence and recreational hunting are fine by me (though I hate trophy hunting and canned hunts), but in most areas controls on how many and what type of animals is taken are prudent. If I had the time and was hungry, I'd certainly hunt, but for me the supermarket is a much more convenient source of meat.

Cetaceans are on average too close to our own level of intelligence for me to want to kill and eat them, I'd switch to tofu for my protein before I ate whales. Seals probably taste like fishy bear: too fatty and gamy to appeal to the average person who isn't starving. OTOH, I bet they taste better than badgers

That future all shiny and fixed by technology *might* happen some day if we manage to not kill each other and deplete/pollute that planet for another few hundred years, but I have serious doubts that we'll get there and if we (humanity) do, it'll probably be rather different than Star Trek. There's lots of great SF that speculates on future tech and societies, fun/exhilarating/sad to read, but all just fiction in the end.

my opinions only...

[Mic1]

I would welcome all views and opinions and feedback on a discussion about hunting: recreational vs market and all in between.

I was reading about the "market hunters"; these were the people who would hunt large numbers of animals and birds and sell the parts and meat of them for a living. This happened before "bag limits" on how many animals you could kill and catch and keep.

The three main categories of hunters/hunting appear to be:

1 Market Hunters
2 Subsistence Hunters
3 Recreational Hunters

Subsistence hunters are those who hunt animals primarily for meat and to personally and locally consume the animals.
Recreation hunters hunt for the sport and also may eat some of the animal.
Market hunters mainly did it and do it for the ability to sell the hides and meat and other parts.

Some overlap may occur between and amongst the groups.

Now, first of all, without going to the extreme of the animal rights' world, do you all believe that in our current/modern world there needs to be bag limits because, if all laws about hunting were put back to where they were before the limits, people would kill too many of the animals and it would endanger their population?

Interestingly, it was the recreational hunters along with some subsistence hunters who helped to advocate for bag limits and hunting rules because of the extremes taken by the market hunters. Some of the market hunters would come home with like 200 or 300 birds or animals at a time! WOW! And I read that some of them would pack their shotguns with scrap metal just to kill and take down more birds and animals.

Here are some links about this:

http://www.museum.state.il.us/RiverWeb/ ... nting.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/punt-gu ... wild-fowl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was called a Punt Gun. It was designed to discharge huge amounts of shot to kill masses of waterfowl/birds.

Market hunting is considered poaching in today's world, unless one gets special permits or licenses to do it, but I don't think those exist.

Another question: Commercial fishing is basically market hunting in the water. Why do you think society accepted commercial fishing (which in some ways is now facing severe limits, though this is debated; and laws have been passed to control fishing, as well) while halting or trying to halt commercial hunting, earlier? Is it simply because there have been larger numbers of fish than animals and birds?

Another question: In the USA and some other places it is illegal for persons to kill marine mammals such as whales and dolphins and other animals. This is to protect their populations. However, if a group of people were able to commercially FARM MARINE MAMMALS, say, somehow have an offshore Dolphin or Whale farm that had sea pens and where they provided food and everything, like is done with aqua culture/ fish farms, do you think this would be allowed and accepted or not? Since in this case, the creatures are being managed and reproduced in a controlled way.

can you imagine orca/killer whale farms? wow.

Supposedly, when the first Europeans arrived in the Americas, the fish and wildlife were so plentiful that you could take a large basket, dip it into the water in many rivers, and bring up a whole mass of fish with little work. Do you think that's true?

I would also welcome your views as to your speculation about the future: As human population increases in some areas, and as there is pressure to build more modern cities and urban habitats, will we see increasing decreases of certain animal populations, or, how do you think it will work out?

A friend of mine who is big into Star Trek type science fiction told me he envisions a world like the Star Trek "Federation Earth" where super technologies like nanotechnology replicators, cheap nuclear fusion, and cheap space travel, allow humans to build beautiful self repairing self maintaining cities, and where farmland and other lands are reclaimed and transformed into beautiful natural parks, and humans and animals will live on a pollution-free wonderful planet Earth, and the masses of humans will expand into space: First to build colonies on the Moon, Mars, and outer planets and the Asteroid Belt, and also artificial enclosed earthlike habitats in space, and then onwards to spread out into the universe and colonize other star systems and eventually whole galaxies, and self replicating robots will do all the menial and hard labor for people, and the manufacturing, and the entire human race will all be, from childhood, rich, educated, happy, have expanded life spans, and unlimited energy, food, goods, health, and medical care; provided by robots and super technologies.

How realistic do you think his perspective is? (PS: I do not want to get into a politics discussion but unlike myself, this person considers himself a "Democratic Socialist", but, he is totally against all anti knife and anti gun laws; he wants a global democratic socialist Star Trek like world government, while also having peace and individual freedom, where people can own and carry any gun, knife, or sword they want. I know this because I asked his opinions on that issue, and I am glad that unlike a lot of such people, he supports and believes in knife-rights.)

He also thinks any animals that go extinct or have become extinct, and which we can find their DNA patterns, we will be able to remake them.

Now a related issue: What do you all think of this? I read that there are biomimetic/biological scientists who are trying to learn to make synthetic rhino and elephant ivory horns, so they can flood the global market with synthetic rhino horn and elephant horn, to overwhelm the poachers and make it so poaching for the ivory stops. Is this a realistic goal or not?

There is absolutely no better way to be in touch with ones primal self and ancestors than to bow hunt big game. Its is not really the killing for me and most hunters I know is the smallest and hardest part. I should mention my family operates an outdoor sporting goods store and I have been a member of an archery club for 15 years and been all over the USA hunting. To me its everything leading up to the kill. All the planning, scouting, training, practice, gear selection and refinement. I cant even put a price on all the wilderness knowledge I have learned. Its an activity where all my interests are rolled into one. Family,Friends, camping, bush craft, archery, knives, and nature. The killing is really the smallest yet largest hardest thing. I love animals all animals. I trained dogs professionally for years. I cry in movies when animals die or are in sad situations truly. But I eat them as well every day. It is a strange thing to see a calf and think how adorable it is and to feel all warn and fuzzy to pet it feed it and feel good about it only to have a steak for dinner and feel good about that too. To kill an animal for food is so primal and very human. You realize this when hunting a few years how the minute you walk in the woods your vision changes you slow your pace and you hear things different. How your eyes pick up the littlest movement. Your brain and body are that of predators. When the pray you have spent so much time and effort stalking comes in close so close you could spear it and it has no Idea you there . Your heart is pounding like a hammer on an anvil you swear it can hear it. The adrenaline dump is huge your shaking all this and you have to draw your bow without being seen concentrate on a spot the size of a button hold 40-70 pounds still and cleanly release an arrow. If you have never tried it you cant even begin to understand. When I kill an animal and look into its eyes I feel remorse and even sad but also a sense of accomplishment (its not easy they get away more than I get them ) and I'm happy to have all the clean meat. I like to tell people it like my Lab she loves to bird hunt its in her blood all the way back to the first wild dog. She makes no apologize for liking it or being good at it. But she is also the sweetest dog with all other animals and humans. You can be both an enlightened educated modern human and still enjoy hunting. You can even be a hipster and wear your trendy outdoor clothing and beard actually outdoors. Best part is you are unplugged outside using all your senses. Modern limits and efforts by fish and game all over the world help insure we have this recreation for ever. Not to mention that hunters pay for most of this through hunting license. Also private organizations started by hunters like ducks unlimited, rocky mountain elk foundation,sci,Dallas safari club, north american hunting, nwtf, to some degree the nra, and many more private organizations do more for habitat restoration, protection,fund raising,and research than any animal rights peta organization ever has. It makes sense when you think about it we ( Hunters) want to hunt forever and want our children and grandchildren to hunt. We want plentiful game we don't want extinction or to kill all animals. We are more active in ensuring there survival and that they thrive. Only poacher scum dirt bag soulless bastards break the law and don't care about the animals. The truth is hunting is seeing a resurgence especially among woman. People are trying to find ways to be active in the outdoors with there families. The old false stereotypes are being unmasked and shown for what they were a lie and anti hunting propaganda. To me personally I am in no rush to become so advanced I leave behind that part of being human.

[awa54]

There is absolutely no better way to be in touch with ones primal self and ancestors than to bow hunt big game. Its is not really the killing for me and most hunters I know is the smallest and hardest part. I should mention my family operates an outdoor sporting goods store and I have been a member of an archery club for 15 years and been all over the USA hunting. To me its everything leading up to the kill. All the planning, scouting, training, practice, gear selection and refinement. I cant even put a price on all the wilderness knowledge I have learned. Its an activity where all my interests are rolled into one. Family,Friends, camping, bush craft, archery, knives, and nature. The killing is really the smallest yet largest hardest thing. I love animals all animals. I trained dogs professionally for years. I cry in movies when animals die or are in sad situations truly. But I eat them as well every day. It is a strange thing to see a calf and think how adorable it is and to feel all warn and fuzzy to pet it feed it and feel good about it only to have a steak for dinner and feel good about that too. To kill an animal for food is so primal and very human. You realize this when hunting a few years how the minute you walk in the woods your vision changes you slow your pace and you hear things different. How your eyes pick up the littlest movement. Your brain and body are that of predators. When the pray you have spent so much time and effort stalking comes in close so close you could spear it and it has no Idea you there . Your heart is pounding like a hammer on an anvil you swear it can hear it. The adrenaline dump is huge your shaking all this and you have to draw your bow without being seen concentrate on a spot the size of a button hold 40-70 pounds still and cleanly release an arrow. If you have never tried it you cant even begin to understand. When I kill an animal and look into its eyes I feel remorse and even sad but also a sense of accomplishment (its not easy they get away more than I get them ) and I'm happy to have all the clean meat. I like to tell people it like my Lab she loves to bird hunt its in her blood all the way back to the first wild dog. She makes no apologize for liking it or being good at it. But she is also the sweetest dog with all other animals and humans. You can be both an enlightened educated modern human and still enjoy hunting. You can even be a hipster and wear your trendy outdoor clothing and beard actually outdoors. Best part is you are unplugged outside using all your senses. Modern limits and efforts by fish and game all over the world help insure we have this recreation for ever. Not to mention that hunters pay for most of this through hunting license. Also private organizations started by hunters like ducks unlimited, rocky mountain elk foundation,sci,Dallas safari club, north american hunting, nwtf, to some degree the nra, and many more private organizations do more for habitat restoration, protection,fund raising,and research than any animal rights peta organization ever has. It makes sense when you think about it we ( Hunters) want to hunt forever and want our children and grandchildren to hunt. We want plentiful game we don't want extinction or to kill all animals. We are more active in ensuring there survival and that they thrive. Only poacher scum dirt bag soulless bastards break the law and don't care about the animals. The truth is hunting is seeing a resurgence especially among woman. People are trying to find ways to be active in the outdoors with there families. The old false stereotypes are being unmasked and shown for what they were a lie and anti hunting propaganda. To me personally I am in no rush to become so advanced I leave behind that part of being human.

This is an awesome post.

[Mic1]

This makes me think about a friend who I work with. He asked me to teach him to bow hunt. I did reluctantly at first but now he is a total outdoorsman more than me he hunts and eats everything from crow to elk he fishes all the time. His Daughter who is let's say having some identity issues which has caused some problems as to how to handle it. She started just shooting a bow every once and awhile at the club on Monday nights. Now her and her dad go on hunting camping trips together and have found a way to bond and work on there relationship. I can tell you that it really has made a difference in their lives. My dad was a hard man and my parents were divorced I only saw him every other weekend. We did not see eye to eye on most things. But hunting birds on sundays we were different we would laugh, talk, he would teach. Or in the summer and spring training dogs to hunt same thing it all melted away. He was calmer and patient I was eager to learn and calmer. Only the outdoors have that power in my opinion not just hunting but the outdoors in general whatever it may be.

One thing I take away from star trek ummm they're always fighting something or someone. There is always a bad evil something or someone. There ship has guns. The universe does not seem peaceful to me but there worried about eating animals after blowing up a ship of bad guys? I'm just pointing out the strange part of the human brain that can kill humans or human like aliens no problem but eat a cow............ well star wars and Doctor Who are better anyway. :D

[Monocrom]

Shakespeare was a poacher. Many hunters who hunt to feed their families are poachers simply because it's illegal in some places to hunt at all. They don't hunt to sell pelts or anything like that. So sometimes it's not Black & White. Lots of grey in there. Just saying....

[The Deacon]

Shakespeare was a poacher. Many hunters who hunt to feed their families are poachers simply because it's illegal in some places to hunt at all. They don't hunt to sell pelts or anything like that. So sometimes it's not Black & White. Lots of grey in there. Just saying....

Definitely.

Imagine that PETA had not only existed in the 1830's but had been successful in making the American Bison a protected species at a time when their numbers are estimated to have been around 60,000,000.

Now imagine farmers trying to grow wheat and corn and ranchers trying to raise cattle, with 60,000,000 or more bison roaming free. Imagine them blocking roads, destroying lawns and gardens, damaging houses, trampling kids. :eek:

[i am travvy]

I don't hunt, I want to but just havnt done it yet. I do fish though and being from Florida we have quite a few regulations to follow. Each game species of fish either has a size limit, bag limit, season or combination of the three. Some species of fish need it such as snook. Snook here have a season, size limit, bag limit and you have to have a license to harvest them. Something like this I agree with because we had a pretty bad freeze a few years ago and killed off a huge population of snook and we are just now seeing the numbers get back up. Now there are other fish such as the Goliath grouper who are now protected. You cannot even take them out of the water. They put them as protected a long time ago because they were being over harvested but now their numbers are so high that they are becoming a neusance in some areas. With this I think they should make a small season, say maybe a couple of days to a week with a fish per boat for the season. Now on the hunting side, hunting for meat I am fine with. I'm not for doing it for money or for the trophy. Hunt for the meat and if that trophy walks in front of you then that's a bonus. One thing that I don't like is, I beleive it's like this in kentucky and idk if it's like this anywhere else, but if you have neusance deer you are allowed to shoot and kill but then have to let them lay. Cannot harvest. To me that is a huge waste of an animal. I beleive they should let you harvest some for yourself then maybe donate the rest. Idk, my .02.

[Mic1]

Shakespeare was a poacher. Many hunters who hunt to feed their families are poachers simply because it's illegal in some places to hunt at all. They don't hunt to sell pelts or anything like that. So sometimes it's not Black & White. Lots of grey in there. Just saying....

Bull! Most places like Alaska have generous limits and seasons for subsistence hunting . This ain't Shakespeare's england and youre not poaching the king's deer to feed your taxed kids living in a mud hovel. And most natives be it Africa,South America,USA are allowed to subsistence hunt. Also your poaching to feed families does not hold water as most places allow a generous bag limit of Deer,fish,small game,waterfowl during these seasons that if you hunted to eat you could fill your freezer. Also let's not pretend there is not a tone of federal and state money, aid and programs available for those who need it. **** even for those who don't and abuse it. I see it all the time at the grocery as I do all our shopping and cooking. I see people pay for carts of groceries with government cards all the time and a good deal of the time they're not just buying staples . Most poachers I have meet do it for three reasons there lawbreakers who like it and find it a rush, 2 they don't have land to hunt they don't want to hunt public land and follow rules so they go on other people's property or protected land and hunt. I knew a guy who came in the store he was busted for poaching 2 Deer from a forest preserve. His hunting privileges were revoked in Illinois but that never stopped him he just kept on doing it. Then there are the bastards who poach for money. Elephant, rhino, tiger, lions, whales etc all sorts of animals all over the world that are endangered or protected. They are the scum of the earth as far as I am concerned. But you could make the argument that they are just trying to feed there family which is bull it's easy money that is it,there scum. I don't have any land I live in a suburb my local spot was just sold so I lost that. Had I not torn the ligaments in my right ankle I would be hunting public land this year. There's just no excuse for poaching or killing over your limit.

[Monocrom]

There are still places that operate like the England of old. Major punishment for so-called poaching. You can thank corrupt public officials for that. It's the reason why dangerous 4-legged predators come into villages and kill children or the elderly. In order to avoid horrific punishment, villagers often have to wait for armed government officials to arrive after being notified, in order to solve the problem. If children or the elderly die in the meantime.... Oh well! That's what still goes on, even today.

[Mic1]

Where?

I would not consider defending yourself or others poaching. Even if it was an endangered animal. I don't do hypothetical examples just to play Devils advocate and further a debate. Seriously there is no defending poaching. Killing to protect life children, elderly, woman, handicapped,disabled etc is a totally different subject regardless of corrupt officials opinion. And in Africa natives bush tribes hunt and gather. The Masai hunt as well as raise cattle. I know you know the kind of poaching I'm speaking of. It's good ol boys poaching because they want to, entitled jerks shooting animals on canned hunts. Ivory and holistic animal parts traders. There is no defense for it none you can try but it's like defending biological weapons that can wipe out whole races or species.

[Birdman21]

Where?

I would not consider defending yourself or others poaching. Even if it was an endangered animal. I don't do hypothetical examples just to play Devils advocate and further a debate. Seriously there is no defending poaching. Killing to protect life children, elderly, woman, handicapped,disabled etc is a totally different subject regardless of corrupt officials opinion. And in Africa natives bush tribes hunt and gather. The Masai hunt as well as raise cattle. I know you know the kind of poaching I'm speaking of. It's good ol boys poaching because they want to, entitled jerks shooting animals on canned hunts. Ivory and holistic animal parts traders. There is no defense for it none you can try but it's like defending biological weapons that can wipe out whole races or species.

A lot of African countries like Kenya, Uganda, and Ethiopia that don't allow locals to hunt anymore for one of two reasons
1) Caving to international pressure to try and stop illegal trade of ivory and certain furs
2) Bcuz in some of these countries, trophy big game hunting is a HUGE money maker for the local Government. If u have a rich American or Japanese guy willing to pay 100 grand or better to shoot an elephant or Cape buffalo, u wanna make sure that there's plenty of them around to shoot right? In a nutshell, that's what it comes down to and nothing more noble than that... Corrupt governments lining their pockets...

[awa54]

Shakespeare was a poacher. Many hunters who hunt to feed their families are poachers simply because it's illegal in some places to hunt at all. They don't hunt to sell pelts or anything like that. So sometimes it's not Black & White. Lots of grey in there. Just saying....

Definitely.

Imagine that PETA had not only existed in the 1830's but had been successful in making the American Bison a protected species at a time when their numbers are estimated to have been around 60,000,000.

Now imagine farmers trying to grow wheat and corn and ranchers trying to raise cattle, with 60,000,000 or more bison roaming free. Imagine them blocking roads, destroying lawns and gardens, damaging houses, trampling kids. :eek:

Bison is delicious buy the way!

[The Deacon]

[Bison is delicious buy the way!

Yes, it is. One of the very few things I miss about NY was having Gem Farms just a few miles away.

[Monocrom]

Where?

I would not consider defending yourself or others poaching. Even if it was an endangered animal. I don't do hypothetical examples just to play Devils advocate and further a debate. Seriously there is no defending poaching. Killing to protect life children, elderly, woman, handicapped,disabled etc is a totally different subject regardless of corrupt officials opinion. And in Africa natives bush tribes hunt and gather. The Masai hunt as well as raise cattle. I know you know the kind of poaching I'm speaking of. It's good ol boys poaching because they want to, entitled jerks shooting animals on canned hunts. Ivory and holistic animal parts traders. There is no defense for it none you can try but it's like defending biological weapons that can wipe out whole races or species.

Do you honestly think the world is only made up of first world nations?

I don't do hypothetical scenarios either. Poaching still goes on. Not all of it is rich, international criminals harvesting rhino horns or elephant ivory with an AK-47 and a chainsaw. Nor is it just rich jerks wanting to prove that they're manly.

Poaching for feeding one's family is not hypothetical. It still goes on in the world. So does slavery.... And I don't mean in some little 3rd World nation. Stop by NYC sometime, I'll show you the factories in the industrial district where literal immigrant slaves make shirts or cheap novelties, or counterfeit Rolex watches. Though don't linger around the front entrance too long. The very large "Bouncers" tend to get upset if you hang too long on their street. Everyone knows what goes on. But no one cares. I would call the NYPD and report it, but they already know about it. Like I said, no one cares.

I honestly can't stand Humanity. In real life, at almost half a century old, the number of truly good people I've met.... I can count on my two hands, and still have fingers left over. Personally, I feel that Humanity failed FAR too long ago to reach actual Enlightenment. (Not the pseudo enlightenment that many liberals believe they've achieved in the 21st Century.) It's funny how the most obscene of human vices, such as blind naked Greed not only continues unchecked, but has reached massive levels. So massive it could genuinely be considered a cancer upon the planet. I'm genuinely amazed that God hasn't decided to get rid of Humanity and create a new, actually noble race of creatures to inhabit the Earth. So I don't see planet-wide biological weapons as such a bad thing.

The funny part is, you think I'm either joking or being sarcastic.