The Spyderco Senior think tank

[brj]

Just posted in the 'most overlooked' thread a bit on the Junior and thought this deserves a topic on it's own.

I love my Junior, I really do. Sturdy no-nonsense workman's blade, versatile comp lock, fantastic handle, comfortable to carry, easy to clean. My only gripe: this is first & foremost intended for kids. I know, Spyderco has done a great job turning it into a generic one-size-fits-all but I cannot stop wondering how a beefed-up version (for convenience called Senior henceforth) would look and feel like.

As the Tatanka clearly indicates there is a market for slightly-larger :) folders, I was just wondering how you guys would feel about a Junior-based Senior. This thread is not about changing the steel or handle material, but rather on gathering input on 'would this be the ultimate backpacker's dream', 'how large would be too large?' and ultimately 'would you buy one?'.


(original knife schematics by Dialex)

[Evil D]

I'm with you 110% on this one. Make it larger and I'll absolutely buy one. I ordered one from my local knife shop and was so let down at how small it was, it just didn't fit my hand at all. Again, it's an excellent design for what it's intended to do (fit small/children's hands) but the design is so great that I think it would be a real winner if it was just a little larger.

[tvenuto]

The unfortunate thing is that people don't know you're requesting the Ouroboros, by Paul Alexander, which was shown at this and previous Amsterdam meets. I posted about it here. It shares the Junior's thin handle with a guard and a wide and upswept blade, but was larger. The version we handled didn't have a lock, but it was mentioned that the Comp lock would be used due to its compact size. There was a similar knife called the Piratta, which was larger and even more upswept, but I preferred the Ouroboros.

[brj]

Don't know these concepts, so I'll reserve judgement. The selling point for me is the match between the streamlined handle of the Junior and the wide, drop point blade, with an upswept blade I would assume we are loosing some of the advantages the Junior currently sports (i.e. equally favoring both push and drag cuts).

IMO, I've found the Junior blade shape to be perfect from a backpacker's perspective, receiving accolades from cutting to prying to digging holes to spreading butter on bread. Near the handle, the blade makes a slight negative angle, which works great for cutting rope or making fuzz sticks (acting very similar to a recurve).

[tvenuto]

Don't know these concepts, so I'll reserve judgement. The selling point for me is the match between the streamlined handle of the Junior and the wide, drop point blade, with an upswept blade I would assume we are loosing some of the advantages the Junior currently sports (i.e. equally favoring both push and drag cuts).

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Now, obviously I don't have a photo of the Ouroboros, but from my memory the belly on it was similar to the Junior. From my perspective, the Junior does have a relatively upswept blade compared to something like a PM2 or Delica.

[VashHash]

I wish they had made it larger too. I really liked the design and the fact that it was a compression lock. Just the size put me off. Other than that it's easy to clean out with the open construction.

[Johnnie1801]

Seeing as the Junior is a DiAlex design wouldn't he need to give his permission to Spyderco to change it?

Probably easier to contact DiAlex and ask him to make you a custom knife as you're both in Romania

[brj]

As a matter of fact, I've been hinting Alex for a full-size version since initially seeing the Junior design :) . But this is not about a one-off custom made knife, I'm trying to pick your brains as to get a broader input on the idea whether a Senior model would fly (from the user perspective).

[twinboysdad]

I just wish the one at my b&m didn't have blade play! I would own it otherwise. My hands are very average to small and it fits me fine. I would like to see it made in Golden and in M4 since it is an outdoor type knife

[brj]

I think VG-10 has been a consequence of the design and the target population. Arguably, junior users (pun intended) would reap the most benefits out of something that has good corrosion resistance, sharpens easily and holds a good edge for a decent amount of time - while harder steels might present a lot more challenges with using and resharpening.

[Evil D]

Seeing as the Junior is a DiAlex design wouldn't he need to give his permission to Spyderco to change it?

Probably easier to contact DiAlex and ask him to make you a custom knife as you're both in Romania

He would, and though I can't speak for him, I think he'd be on with it. We've had discussions here in the past about different blade shapes in the same handle design, because I want it with a wharnie/sheepsfoot blade so bad it makes me crazy, and he seemed pretty open to the idea. If he wasn't on the opposite side of the planet I'd think about a custom.

[tvenuto]

Seeing as the Junior is a DiAlex design wouldn't he need to give his permission to Spyderco to change it?

Probably easier to contact DiAlex and ask him to make you a custom knife as you're both in Romania

He would, and though I can't speak for him, I think he'd be on with it. We've had discussions here in the past about different blade shapes in the same handle design, because I want it with a wharnie/sheepsfoot blade so bad it makes me crazy, and he seemed pretty open to the idea. If he wasn't on the opposite side of the planet I'd think about a custom.

I don't think he's actually a knifemaker, but I could be wrong about that.

[Ed Schempp]

I like the idea. I like the slightly dropped handle and the deep index finger placement. That deep index finger placement and allows for the widest arc of movement. I think Fred Perrin would approve. It allows for a substantial guard making the knife safer in harder use. The knife has good ergonomics. Alex is a good guy. My 2 cents...Take Care...Ed

[ohcyclist]

This would be very interesting. I think the jr is under rated and a larger model could draw interest. Also it is never bad to have more compression lock options! Evil's point about a wharnie version should at least spawn a prototype if this ever gets serious attention.

[dancer]

I use the junior as a folding chefs knife. It's a little small, but it's the most comfortable to use on a chopping board as my knuckles are out of the way, and I can rock it for herbs.
If it had a larger blade and handle and if the guard didn't block the heel of the blade from use, I'd definitely be in for a couple more.

I don't post much, but really had to chime in for this.
Sal, Please Consider This.

Simple steel like vg10 is great. Something like Blue or white would be amazing!

[dialex]

Hello guys, thank BRJ for this thread and to you all for your valuable input. :)
Truth is, I've been working on the Senior project for some time and the work is almost finished. Don't expect an enlarged Junior though. Although you may notice some familiar feats, it's without doubt the adult rated version of the knife. You may choose between two blade shapes (drop point like the Junior, or Bowie style - no wharnie, sorry Evil D) and it may sport even a flipper (which is rounded and discrete in closed position and pretty functional when open).
For me, the only question that remains is: "Shall I keep the flipper or not?"

[Joshua J.]

Keep the flipper!

Though flippers are just my #2 preferred opening system behind the Emerson Opener, I'll take the flipper.
I also like flippers for the "finger safety", but with or without I will love the design regardless.

I've been waiting for the Sr. Ever since I saw the Jr.
I think this is one of the most complete designs I've ever seen, the synergy between the lock and handle is beautiful.

[Joshua J.]

Just to throw something out there, what if the flipper was functional as an opener while the knife is closed but covered by the handle while the knife is in the open position?
You could just about sneak a tiny flipper into the existing handle shape.
You would need to move the stop pin forward, which means the locking tab would need to be rotated a bit, but theoretically (I think) it could be done.
The biggest problem would be deciding if that's where you want the lock release, and I don't think Sal has done anything like that before so it would be an engineering challenge.
Just a thought.

[brj]

Hallelujah :)
I'd also say keep the flipper, would definitely be a plus on a heftier blade.

[Joshua J.]

On second thought with the flipper, if it gets in the way of cutting on a flat surface then sometimes it might be better without.
Can we have both?
A flipper on the Bowie and no flipper on the Drop Point?