Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

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JD Spydo
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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby JD Spydo » Tue May 19, 2015 8:45 pm

Evil D wrote:
bearfacedkiller wrote:Centofante4 in ZDP

Any day now. I'd also like SB and a screw pivot while we're at it.


Actually my ultimate would just be an updated Vesuvius with compression lock improvements and a modern steel.
Interesting you would bring up the older Vesuvius model :) I just recently gave thought to what it would be like with a CNC milled, titanium handle. It's just the style I would like to see with a Titanium handle. I would also like to see a Vesuvius model with a Micarta handle with XHP or M-4.

The Vesuvius truly fits all the definitions of a hidden classic Spyder.

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby Halfneck » Wed May 20, 2015 11:19 am

I'd love to see an updated Jess Horn Lightweight in VG-10 with a flat grind like the A.G. Russell versions.

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri May 22, 2015 8:09 am

Halfneck wrote:I'd love to see an updated Jess Horn Lightweight in VG-10 with a flat grind like the A.G. Russell versions.
Well Halfneck I'm sure you remember the Sprint Run of the mid 2000 decade which was a Burgundy Jess Horn with ZDP-189 blade steel>> I had a couple of those and used one for a short time before I traded it and I must say that between that model and the Rookie they both came close to perfect for most people's EDC requirements. All of the Jess Horn models have a special appeal for many of the long term members here at Spyderville.

My own personal preference would be to have a Jess Horn model with a G-10 handle and one of the newer blade steels.

Surprised that so few have suggested one of the Hawkbills to be revamped in newer materials. I would love a G-10 Harpy with XHP or maybe even the new nitrogen based steel they made the TUSK model with.

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby MattM68 » Fri May 22, 2015 8:37 am

I'll take a new Dodo! Maybe CTS-204p, and Blue G-10 to match the original model? Maybe green G-10? :)

Matt

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby Brock O Lee » Fri May 22, 2015 12:06 pm

A Para2 in CF and M4!

Oh wait... :p
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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby DougC-3 » Fri May 22, 2015 12:25 pm

While on that subject, a PM2 M4 with thicker and more rounded natural G-10 handles a la Halpern 3D natural mule team handles :p
:spyder: :cool:

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Halfneck
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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby Halfneck » Fri May 22, 2015 6:18 pm

JD - I do recall the Burgundy Jess Horn in ZDP-189. Didn't get one for whatever reason, kinda wish I had. A new version with Micarta/G10 scales would be sweet, but I'd be worried it might be priced higher than I could afford. FRN & VG-10 would hopefully keep it under $100.

I'd still prefer a full flat grind as I believe it would make it cut like a scalpel. I'd also prefer a different type of texturing to the FRN than "Jess Horn" letters in a pattern. Maybe the fish scale texture as they used on the Calypso?

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby tvenuto » Fri May 22, 2015 8:03 pm

Halfneck wrote:JD - I do recall the Burgundy Jess Horn in ZDP-189. Didn't get one for whatever reason, kinda wish I had. A new version with Micarta/G10 scales would be sweet, but I'd be worried it might be priced higher than I could afford. FRN & VG-10 would hopefully keep it under $100.

I'd still prefer a full flat grind as I believe it would make it cut like a scalpel. I'd also prefer a different type of texturing to the FRN than "Jess Horn" letters in a pattern. Maybe the fish scale texture as they used on the Calypso?
Yea the only tough thing about that is the upfront cost of the mold. I personally love many of spyderco's FRN designs; they're lightweight, strong, and affordable like you mentioned. However, they have to have the volume to back up the mold cost/design, so doing a short run, or an experimental run isn't really in the cards. It seems like their tactic has been: verify popularity via G10 model, make any design tweaks in the G10, and once that's settled go for the FRN. I'm all for an older FRN sprint, but that's all predicated on having the mold still (which isn't always the case).
JD Spydo wrote:Surprised that so few have suggested one of the Hawkbills to be revamped in newer materials. I would love a G-10 Harpy with XHP or maybe even the new nitrogen based steel they made the TUSK model with.
I'm sure you're not actually that surprised, hawkbills are certainly more of a specialized blade shape. I have the USN ladybug hawkbill, but I'm not sure I'd use a larger version. Being so small, I really only use the ladybug for cutting tape or string so the limitations of a hawkbill don't show up as readily. Maybe I"m wrong about them, but I don't encounter any task that I'd rather have the hawkbill for over a more standard plain edge.

For me, I think it'd be cool do see a rookie. That always looked like a blade I'd like, but never felt like scouring the aftermarket for it. Also, I'm always open to another run of the R.

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon May 25, 2015 8:14 am

tvenuto wrote:
Halfneck wrote:
JD Spydo wrote:Surprised that so few have suggested one of the Hawkbills to be revamped in newer materials. I would love a G-10 Harpy with XHP or maybe even the new nitrogen based steel they made the TUSK model with.
I'm sure you're not actually that surprised, hawkbills are certainly more of a specialized blade shape. I have the USN ladybug hawkbill, but I'm not sure I'd use a larger version. Being so small, I really only use the ladybug for cutting tape or string so the limitations of a hawkbill don't show up as readily. Maybe I"m wrong about them, but I don't encounter any task that I'd rather have the hawkbill for over a more standard plain edge.

For me, I think it'd be cool do see a rookie. That always looked like a blade I'd like, but never felt like scouring the aftermarket for it. Also, I'm always open to another run of the R.
No I am sort of surprised that no one beside myself has spoken up for a possible new run of the G-10 handled Harpy which is the Holy Grail of many collectors that have been trying to find on NIB for their long term collections. There are a lot of Spyderheads here among us who very much want a G-10 Harpy. I would rather have one of them over any of the other Spyderco Hawkbills that I dearly love and use.

Now I will give you a huge high five concerning the Rookie model>> I've said for years that it is the quintescential, almost perfect EDC pocket knife for the average person that Spyderco has ever made. It's basically a little version of the POLICE model for those of you newbies that are not familiar with the model>> and with a G-10 handle it is the most ideal EDC I've ever used even though there are models I like a bit better for reasons of being advantageous for my daily cutting jobs here where I work. But if I were to gift someone a folder that is not a knife person per se like most of us here at Spyderville are then it's a "no-brainer" I would give them the ROOKIE almost every time if I had my way about it. And in a Spyderedge blade the Rookie for it's size range is a great choice.

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby SpeedHoles » Mon May 25, 2015 10:57 am

Throw in a G10 Scorpius into this upcoming HAP40 run! :)

I've never handled a Vesuvius, but that does intrigue me as well. And also the G10 Harpy.

I rarely say this about a Spyderco, but I'm not a fan of the Salsa. Mine has left a bad taste in my mouth. There are dozens of others I'd rather see make a come back before that.


Or yeah, Super Blue anything, lol. Do I say that too often? Nah.
JD Smith SB? I want some Schempp designs in SB as well.
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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby Bradley » Mon May 25, 2015 1:19 pm

Dodo salt
yellow g-10
ti liners
ti clip
H-1 serrated blade obviously

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby JD Spydo » Mon May 25, 2015 1:25 pm

Bradley wrote:Dodo salt
yellow g-10
ti liners
ti clip
H-1 serrated blade obviously
Hey BRADLEY!!! you got my attention big time with the suggestion of a Salt DODO model :cool: And I like your complete description of everything you got listed. I have nothing at all against a plain edged DODO because I currently own two of them>> but if they would do an H-1 Salt version of the DODO model then by all means we must have a Spyderedged option available IMO.

Yeah a yellow G-10 handle and a Titanium clip but maybe different from the wire clip I have on both of mine. I would snag one of those immediately if Sal would ever consider such a project. Next to a C-60 Ayoob in PE & SE in the H-1 Salt Series I would really love to see a DODO model in H-1. Other than a G-10 Harpy that's the best suggestion I've heard yet on this thread ;)

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby phillipsted » Thu May 28, 2015 11:30 am

Invective wrote:Not technically a Spyderco, but I would love to see the Solo line return. I recently snagged a Solo2, and this knife along with the (Solo1) with CF handles instead of Micarta would be great office carries. I love how thin they are and how little space they take up in the pocket.
I'm with you, Invective. The Solo knives are great. The SO-01 is my favorite, especially in plain edge. I carried one of those daily for almost 10 years.

The old Spydies that I would MOST like to see re-engineered and re-released are the original Terzuolas - the Senior and the Junior. I've taken apart beater versions of both of these knives in an attempt to rebuild them - but have given up. There are lots of difficulties posed by the construction methods that they employed in the early 1990s. For instance, these knives use one-sided scales screws that thread into the opposite scale - rather than the two-screw-plus-barrel-bolt construction used today. There are half a dozen issues like this that make these older models less-than-ideal for modders and maintainers. Re-engineering the original Terzuola to take advantage of the modern assembly techniques would be akin to designing an entirely new knife, though - so I doubt it would ever happen. But a guy can wish, right?

TedP

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby dialex » Thu May 28, 2015 12:44 pm

The first that comes in my mind would be a G-10 Navigator (first generation), with a wireclip.
The second would be a yellow FRN Calypso jr. with an H1 blade. :)

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby Mad Mac » Thu May 28, 2015 2:59 pm

My first Spyderco was a big honking, fully serrated Endura acquired at a gun show in 1990, quickly followed by a Delica of a more practical size and plain blade. My latest is a combination Tenacious.

Not up on materials, but what I liked about my old knives was the lightness and comfortable feel, except for the opening hole. But some time with Cratex bits made them smooth to the thumb.

By comparison, the Tenacious feels heavy and hard edged to the hand. This is also true of a popular folder of another brand recently secured. These are great knives, but lack, how can I put this... soul, human scale. And frankly, they are not attractive. Sadly, a medium sized Case Stockman is the knife that finds its way into my pocket on a daily basis, and I love my tactical folders.

So, I guess my suggestion would be not updated materials but a more comfortable feel. Oh no, I'm going to say it -- improved ergonomics. Pistols are sometimes described as de-horned or melted when all edges have been stoned or chamfered. That's what I want. A light, tactical folder, smooth to the hand and, while I'm at it, delightful to behold. But I could be wrong. I often am.

This is my first post, so be gentle.
Last edited by Mad Mac on Fri May 29, 2015 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
1990: Endura SE, Delica PE, Mariner, Police. 2014: ClipiTool Bottle Opener. 2015: Kitchen Knife PE, Tenacious CE, Stretch PE, Moran Drop Point, Kiwi, two Byrd Cara Caras, Schempp Bowie, Native 5 Forum Knife, Sharpmaker, Police SE, Small SpyderPac, Ultra-Fine Stones, Tenacious SE, 4" Paring Knife, 2" Paring Knife, Starmate. 2016: The Spyderco Story, The Tactical Folding Knife, USN Ladybug H-1 Hawkbill SE, Black BaliYo, Yellow H-1 Salt Dragonfly 2 SE, Ulize, Pink Native 5 PE, Renegade C23PS and C23P, Gayle Bradley 2, Double Bevel, Gayle Bradley Air, Cricket Blue Nishjin, Centofante Memory, K2, two Large Lum Pink G10, Rubicon. 2017: Battlestation, Orange Positron, Gray Baliyo, Native 5 CE, Tenacious CE. 2018: EuroEdge, ClipiTool Standard, 2019 Calendar Contest Rhino CF PLN.
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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby JD Spydo » Thu May 28, 2015 4:36 pm

Mad Mac wrote:My first Spyderco was a big honking, fully serrated Endura acquired at a gun show in 1990, quickly followed by a Delica of a more practical size and plain blade. My latest is a combination Tenacious.

Not up on materials, but what I liked about my old knives was the lightness and comfortable feel, except for the opening hole. But some time with Cratex bits made them smooth to the thumb.

So, I guess my suggestion would be not updated materials but a more comfortable feel. Oh no, I'm going to say it -- improved ergonomics. Pistols are sometimes described as de-horned or melted when all edges have been stoned or chamfered. That's what I want. A light, tactical folder

This is my first post, so be gentle.
Hey Welcome to the Forum "MAD MAC" :) And a darn good first post you got there as well. Great idea, great suggestion!. One prime example of what you're talking about with improved ergonomics is the updated C-60 Ayoob model they did over two years ago when they brought back the C-60 Massad Ayoob model with a new G-10 handle which was a lot more grippy and more balanced than the original which was great because I even dearly loved the original Ayoob model.

I tend to romanticize the older models which for the most part are some of my favorite Spyders ever made IMO. And it just makes perfect sense to focus more on the ergonomics and function rather than to be hung up on certain materials. But with blade steels there has been so much progress in that area that I just can't help but want to see some of the older, classic models upgraded to the newer/better blade steels.

Back to the second generation C-60 Ayoob model was a much superior knife simply by only changing the handle material. So in essence it's still the ultimate result of what I'm trying to achieve. The newer Ayoob was also a bit more bulky which in turn made it easier for me to handle and use>> I hope I'm on the same page anyway?

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby SpeedHoles » Thu May 28, 2015 8:15 pm

phillipsted wrote:
Invective wrote:Not technically a Spyderco, but I would love to see the Solo line return. I recently snagged a Solo2, and this knife along with the (Solo1) with CF handles instead of Micarta would be great office carries. I love how thin they are and how little space they take up in the pocket.
I'm with you, Invective. The Solo knives are great. The SO-01 is my favorite, especially in plain edge. I carried one of those daily for almost 10 years.

The old Spydies that I would MOST like to see re-engineered and re-released are the original Terzuolas - the Senior and the Junior. I've taken apart beater versions of both of these knives in an attempt to rebuild them - but have given up. There are lots of difficulties posed by the construction methods that they employed in the early 1990s. For instance, these knives use one-sided scales screws that thread into the opposite scale - rather than the two-screw-plus-barrel-bolt construction used today. There are half a dozen issues like this that make these older models less-than-ideal for modders and maintainers. Re-engineering the original Terzuola to take advantage of the modern assembly techniques would be akin to designing an entirely new knife, though - so I doubt it would ever happen. But a guy can wish, right?

TedP

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Completely agree!
I have an old small Terzuola that has massive blade play now. If only I could find somewhere to machine a larger diameter stop pin it could help solve the issue.
An modernized version would be excellent! True classic design.
Going back to Caly.

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby DougC-3 » Fri May 29, 2015 8:00 am

Mad Mac wrote:My first Spyderco was a big honking, fully serrated Endura acquired at a gun show in 1990, quickly followed by a Delica of a more practical size and plain blade. My latest is a combination Tenacious.

Not up on materials, but what I liked about my old knives was the lightness and comfortable feel, except for the opening hole. But some time with Cratex bits made them smooth to the thumb.

By comparison, the Tenacious feels heavy and hard edged to the hand. This is also true of a popular folder of another brand recently secured. These are great knives, but lack, how can I put this... soul, human scale. And frankly, they are not attractive. Sadly, a medium sized Case Stockman is the knife that finds its way into my pocket on a daily basis, and I love my tactical folders.

So, I guess my suggestion would be not updated materials but a more comfortable feel. Oh no, I'm going to say it -- improved ergonomics. Pistols are sometimes described as de-horned or melted when all edges have been stoned or chamfered. That's what I want. A light, tactical folder, smooth to the hand and, while I'm at it, delightful to behold. But I could be wrong. I often am.

This is my first post, so be gentle.
Hi, and welcome, Mad Mac. If you hang around here long, be prepared to catch the materials bug and get caught up in the excitement of new blade steels and handle materials or colors in "sprint runs" and exclusives :)

I'm with you on more emphasis on a more comfortable feel. Little things like well-chamfered edges on G-10 or well rounded edges on FRN handles can make a difference in how much you like and carry a knife. These things may even be subliminal sometimes but they can add up to determine knife choices and are important even in "tactical" knives to me. Really, I think comfort becomes even more important in hard-use knives.
:spyder: :cool:

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Re: Older Spyder models; Updated Materials?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri May 29, 2015 7:41 pm

dialex wrote:The first that comes in my mind would be a G-10 Navigator (first generation), with a wireclip.
The second would be a yellow FRN Calypso jr. with an H1 blade. :)
Hey Dialex I'll go you one better than that>> how about a Yellow G-10 handled Caly Jr. in H-1 or maybe even that new nitrogen based steel LC200N.

While you're on the subject of first generation Spyder Classics How about a yellow handled G-10 Harpy with either H-1 or LC200N?

But I do indeed like your idea of a Salt version of the Caly jr. >> I've also heard a lot of fanfare on the Dragonfly here of late too.

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I Have to Recant My Rant

Postby Mad Mac » Sat May 30, 2015 12:16 pm

Recently, I purchased a Brand X and a Tenacious from an individual on a Jeep forum, new in the box. The Brand X is three times the price of the Tenacious. I was very disappointed with it and allowed my disfavor to bleed over onto my opinion of the Tenacious without even giving it a fair trial.

Both had flat G10 scales, liners, liner locks and were of the same length. Brand X was heavy, difficult to clip and un-clip, had jimping so sharp it cut me and even though it was assisted opening it was awkward to deploy. That is about when I posted my harsh rant earlier on this thread. In frustration, I set the Brand X aside.

This morning, I pocketed the Tenacious. Lo and behold, it was light, easy to clip and un-clip, quick on the draw and smooth and effortless to flick open and close the blade. I'm a happy camper, again. I love it and it will now be my EDC. I'm back.

The Brand X is a popular knife, just not with me. I plan to put it on eBay and use the proceeds to obtain my next Spyderco, maybe a C60 Ayoob, a hero of mine.

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Last edited by Mad Mac on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1990: Endura SE, Delica PE, Mariner, Police. 2014: ClipiTool Bottle Opener. 2015: Kitchen Knife PE, Tenacious CE, Stretch PE, Moran Drop Point, Kiwi, two Byrd Cara Caras, Schempp Bowie, Native 5 Forum Knife, Sharpmaker, Police SE, Small SpyderPac, Ultra-Fine Stones, Tenacious SE, 4" Paring Knife, 2" Paring Knife, Starmate. 2016: The Spyderco Story, The Tactical Folding Knife, USN Ladybug H-1 Hawkbill SE, Black BaliYo, Yellow H-1 Salt Dragonfly 2 SE, Ulize, Pink Native 5 PE, Renegade C23PS and C23P, Gayle Bradley 2, Double Bevel, Gayle Bradley Air, Cricket Blue Nishjin, Centofante Memory, K2, two Large Lum Pink G10, Rubicon. 2017: Battlestation, Orange Positron, Gray Baliyo, Native 5 CE, Tenacious CE. 2018: EuroEdge, ClipiTool Standard, 2019 Calendar Contest Rhino CF PLN.
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