A change in tone
Re: A change in tone
I am a huge Spyderco fan and most (over 90%) of my knives are Spyderco. I enjoy this forum quite a bit both for the info and the dialogue. But one thing that I have found is that quite a few people are intolerant of criticism of any kind or even something that isn't really criticism but a stated preference.
It seems that is OK for people to say I love "such and such" a thing. But whenever someone expresses an valid opinion regarding pretty well anything that might be deemed critical of either their own opinions on a topic or about a Spyderco product there is always someone ready to pounce and explain just why your opinion and preferences are wrong and that you are being overly negative by expressing such an opinion.
Then there is always some element of two or three people chiming in on a certain opinion within a thread and then all of a sudden it becomes "forum gospel". I enjoy Cliff's posts but I can also see why some people don't. If I had an opinion that was based on gut feelings or personal preference based on experience or the past sharing of anecdotes and held that opinion very strongly then this is where I believe some of the animosity might arrive.
Most of us are knife afi's........not steel experts. Although compared to most of the NKP population it may seem like we are relatively expert. But for myself, that knowledge has come about by listening to the people that know what they are talking about ......when they are talking. If I came onto this forum and thought I knew "something about something" with respect to steel and then threw my cherished, yet non-scientifically arrived upon opinion out there as gospel and a then real metallurgy expert like Cliff arrived upon the scene to question those conclusions based on his lifetime accumulation of steel knowledge; then yes, my ego might take a beating.
That would probably irritate me to be shown to be wrong .......if my self esteem was invested in being right or wrong. But personally, I'm rather open to being proven wrong if that then means that my knowledge base can be corrected and I can learn something from the experience.
What I personally don't like though is when thread responses aren't about learning what is correct or incorrect but rather when people speak up on behalf of friends' opinions or defend forum friends' viewpoints simply because they don't like the other person posts or don't like to read a "wall of text" or use a seemingly mild "voice of reason" response that is ultimately disguised passive aggressive attack on another person.
Everyone is capable of behaving poorly or of becoming overly excited in posting their opinions - I have been guilty of that in the past.......and so have many of you. I sometimes edit and remove past postings that I feel have been misinterpreted and also sometimes when someone else has been an idiot.......but there is nothing to gain from pointing a finger at such idiocy without paying the penalty of having more of the same directed your way.
There have also been times when I've unintentionally offended, for example I once made a joking reference to hockey helmeted riders of the short bus........which was a common kind of reference when I was growing up. But when an individual PM'd me telling me that they had a special needs child and they were offended by such a description.......I was mortified that I had offended someone in that position with my comment and I quickly apologized through PM and changed my post.
I think that things are very civil on the Spyderco forum and I quite enjoy "the tone" of this forum. People won't always agree with me and vice-versa but that's life........actually disagreements on the forum ARE moderated when they get out of hand.......unlike in real life when more than someone's ego gets bruised. Even some of the trolling here is highly entertaining at times.......I quite enjoyed the "Deacon-Chloe" thread and from the pics that Deacon posted it seems that he got a kick out of it too......but I am also glad that Taz put an end to it too before it got too out of hand. Still it brought a few grins to my face when reading through it and quickly realizing the purely disingenuous nature of the posts.
I really don't think that there is anything broken that Spyderco needs "to fix" ........I think that they are already doing a great job. I think that the best advice I can give (and take myself) is not to let your self esteem and ego get wrapped up in "being right" ......after all, a lot of things argued are personal preference and how something works for you......which will be different for everybody.
Am I worried about what someone else thinks about my "wall of text"? Not at all.
It seems that is OK for people to say I love "such and such" a thing. But whenever someone expresses an valid opinion regarding pretty well anything that might be deemed critical of either their own opinions on a topic or about a Spyderco product there is always someone ready to pounce and explain just why your opinion and preferences are wrong and that you are being overly negative by expressing such an opinion.
Then there is always some element of two or three people chiming in on a certain opinion within a thread and then all of a sudden it becomes "forum gospel". I enjoy Cliff's posts but I can also see why some people don't. If I had an opinion that was based on gut feelings or personal preference based on experience or the past sharing of anecdotes and held that opinion very strongly then this is where I believe some of the animosity might arrive.
Most of us are knife afi's........not steel experts. Although compared to most of the NKP population it may seem like we are relatively expert. But for myself, that knowledge has come about by listening to the people that know what they are talking about ......when they are talking. If I came onto this forum and thought I knew "something about something" with respect to steel and then threw my cherished, yet non-scientifically arrived upon opinion out there as gospel and a then real metallurgy expert like Cliff arrived upon the scene to question those conclusions based on his lifetime accumulation of steel knowledge; then yes, my ego might take a beating.
That would probably irritate me to be shown to be wrong .......if my self esteem was invested in being right or wrong. But personally, I'm rather open to being proven wrong if that then means that my knowledge base can be corrected and I can learn something from the experience.
What I personally don't like though is when thread responses aren't about learning what is correct or incorrect but rather when people speak up on behalf of friends' opinions or defend forum friends' viewpoints simply because they don't like the other person posts or don't like to read a "wall of text" or use a seemingly mild "voice of reason" response that is ultimately disguised passive aggressive attack on another person.
Everyone is capable of behaving poorly or of becoming overly excited in posting their opinions - I have been guilty of that in the past.......and so have many of you. I sometimes edit and remove past postings that I feel have been misinterpreted and also sometimes when someone else has been an idiot.......but there is nothing to gain from pointing a finger at such idiocy without paying the penalty of having more of the same directed your way.
There have also been times when I've unintentionally offended, for example I once made a joking reference to hockey helmeted riders of the short bus........which was a common kind of reference when I was growing up. But when an individual PM'd me telling me that they had a special needs child and they were offended by such a description.......I was mortified that I had offended someone in that position with my comment and I quickly apologized through PM and changed my post.
I think that things are very civil on the Spyderco forum and I quite enjoy "the tone" of this forum. People won't always agree with me and vice-versa but that's life........actually disagreements on the forum ARE moderated when they get out of hand.......unlike in real life when more than someone's ego gets bruised. Even some of the trolling here is highly entertaining at times.......I quite enjoyed the "Deacon-Chloe" thread and from the pics that Deacon posted it seems that he got a kick out of it too......but I am also glad that Taz put an end to it too before it got too out of hand. Still it brought a few grins to my face when reading through it and quickly realizing the purely disingenuous nature of the posts.
I really don't think that there is anything broken that Spyderco needs "to fix" ........I think that they are already doing a great job. I think that the best advice I can give (and take myself) is not to let your self esteem and ego get wrapped up in "being right" ......after all, a lot of things argued are personal preference and how something works for you......which will be different for everybody.
Am I worried about what someone else thinks about my "wall of text"? Not at all.
Last edited by ManixFan on Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- GoldenSpydie
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Re: A change in tone
I'm starting to like this thread.
Very entertaining. I especially like Chuck's replies. :D
Very entertaining. I especially like Chuck's replies. :D
Re: A change in tone
That was way too funny.....and true! :pCliff Stamp wrote:Your last words to the 300 Spartans - "Do not disturb my circles" .Archimedes wrote:
I forgot whats the first best forum name?
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Re: A change in tone
The ironic thing about that is kind of thing that it is an example of the action it is actually arguing against in the worst possible way. Not speaking of your post, but what you reference. How does it make any sense to rant about tone while making posts about how people are acting that you object to, but not talking to those people but rather talk about them in vague references and implied assertions. How about leaving the rumor and innuendo and just say "Hey guy, I read your position there, that makes no sense at all to me because ..." and then you provide justification for why the position is irrational and/or unjustified.ManixFan wrote:... that is ultimately disguised passive aggressive attack on another person.
Re: A change in tone
I do see the "pseudo-irony" as you've pointed out, but I don't agree that it is irony as the term "irony" is truly defined. However, characterizing my post as a "rant" is a bit of a personal judgement on the content of the post that can also be taken as a subtle ad hominem attack on the poster (me) since the term "rant" implies an unreasonable or exaggerated position expressed in an angry fashion......hence making your reply truly ironic in the correct sense of the word since your reply could potentially be contrued as a passive aggressive attack in itself. So in this case, I will say "Hey guy, I read your position there, that makes no sense at all to me because ...".....with the "because" being the entirety on my posted response.Cliff Stamp wrote:The ironic thing about that is kind of thing that it is an example of the action it is actually arguing against in the worst possible way. Not speaking of your post, but what you reference. How does it make any sense to rant about tone while making posts about how people are acting that you object to, but not talking to those people but rather talk about them in vague references and implied assertions. How about leaving the rumor and innuendo and just say "Hey guy, I read your position there, that makes no sense at all to me because ..." and then you provide justification for why the position is irrational and/or unjustified.ManixFan wrote:... that is ultimately disguised passive aggressive attack on another person.
I don't see how this is rumour (c'mon, you're an educated Canadian - one extra letter won't kill you) or innuendo either. There is nothing oblique or suggestive in my statement - it is a direct statement. I just have not chosen to direct it at anyone in particular as I am not interested in provoking a negative response and provoking an unnecessary argument and the accompanying bruised ego's . I think that it is also a valid comment but that actually going to the effort of singling people out on it at this time from old postings would be counterproductive to the conversation......as well as looking like an attack on someone(s) <yes, I know that is not the correct plural>. I am just expressing something that I don't like and which I have come across in the past......but expressed it with enough "vagueness" that nobody should feel like they are being singled out in particular.
Since I have been direct in my opinion but have not addressed it at anyone in particular, I'm not sure how my statement can itself be taken either as a "rant" as a passive aggressive attack on anyone. But I could be wrong in how it is perceived by others.......or you might be wrong as well......since we are not talking steel here, that is an equally valid proposition. But I do know that I'm not looking to expend the energy to argue the point much further though.
However, although your last comment that I commented on WAS funny. Upon reflection something didn't ring right about it in my subconscious and so I fact checked and I believe that you were mistaken in your humorous response to "Archimedes".
I am assuming that the "300 "that you've referred to was in reference to the generally accepted usage of the "300 Spartans". Since you've also described the 300 as Spartans, I don't think that this interpretation of your statement is a stretch by any means. However, these "300" Spartans were famous for being at the "Battle of Thermopylae" 480 B.C. which was Sparta vs Persia; whereas Archimedes supposedly lost his life to a Roman soldier near the end of the Siege of Syracuse ~212 B.C. which was a war between the Romans & Syracuse/Carthage. :o No, I'm not embarrassed ......that emoticon was all for you :D
I live in Toronto and if you are ever in the neighborhood, (Yonge & Eglinton), then I'd be happy to buy you a double double coffee and even throw in some TimBits - as long as you don't sharpen them into ninja stars on a napkin and throw them back at me :D
P.S. I'm going to bed now. If you reply, I'll be sure to log-on and appreciate your wit and humour tomorrow...... and respond accordingly. I don't ever know how I'll be able to fall asleep now with that to look forward to. :D
Last edited by ManixFan on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Estne Spyderco in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? :eek:
Google est amicus! :D
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Re: A change in tone
Post removed........
Hit the quote button rather than the edit button and just quoted myself.
Hit the quote button rather than the edit button and just quoted myself.
Estne Spyderco in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? :eek:
Google est amicus! :D
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- bearfacedkiller
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Re: A change in tone
Edit: just gonna let it go
Sorry :o
Sorry :o
Last edited by bearfacedkiller on Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
Re: A change in tone
"Eureka!" :DManixFan wrote:
But although your last comment that I commented on WAS funny. Upon reflection something didn't ring right about it in my subconscious and so I fact checked.
I am assuming that the 300 that you've referred to was in reference to the generally accepted usage of the "300 Spartans".....which was the "Battle of Thermopylae" 480 B.C. (Sparta vs Persia) whereas Archimedes supposedly lost his life near the end of the Siege of Syracuse ~212 B.C. (Romans vs Syracuse & Carthage). :o
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Re: A change in tone
Not intended, I was referring to what you were referring to. I thought I made that clear with the part "Not speaking of your post" part. One of the unfortunate things about the way people talk here is that we use you as interpersonal even in direct conversations where it makes no sense and instead "they" should be used. It carries over into other speech. I know it happens as I get called on it all the time when someone thinks I mean them, but it is an old habit and I didn't clarify it very well there at all. Ironically I did the very thing I complained about. I might be related to Alanis.ManixFan wrote: However, characterizing my post ...
This was me poking fun at statements which are obviously and absurdly false but superficially appear ok. Not only are the times wrong, but it isn't even the right army. But most people know that Archimedes is supposed to have made a kind of "don't no body touch my stuff" reference to the military before he was killed and the Spartans are an obvious ancient Military which are now pseudo-famous as they like to punt kick dudes for disrespecting their shorties.I am assuming that the 300 that you've referred to was in reference to the generally accepted usage of the "300 Spartans".....which was the "Battle of Thermopylae" 480 B.C. (Sparta vs Persia) whereas Archimedes supposedly lost his life near the end of the Siege of Syracuse ~212 B.C. (Romans vs Syracuse & Carthage).
Ninja stars are illegal, I might forge them into a katana which is perfectly legal. Ninjas are apparently a much bigger danger than Samurai.... as long as you don't sharpen them into ninja stars on a napkin and throw them back at me
Re: A change in tone
Cliff, no need to respond. I think that Darby is talking about me. :eek: :p
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Re: A change in tone
This makes sense to you? I never admit I am wrong except when I do? Is this an example of the kind of nonsensical and irrational argument that is supposed to make me reject peer reviewed materials data?bearfacedkiller wrote:
You will never give an inch, ever. You can site examples of when you have been in error ...
- bearfacedkiller
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Re: A change in tone
Oh man, what was I thinking. Bracing myself. :o
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Re: A change in tone
Dude, I am way more intelligent than you, it says on my T-shirt, #1 Newf - you can't really match that. 80% of Newfoundlanders have above average intelligence, the other half didn't even take the test.ManixFan wrote:Cliff, no need to respond. I think that Darby is talking about me.
- bearfacedkiller
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Re: A change in tone
I was truly trying to be constructive. Tapping out....
Please bring more of that wit...
Please bring more of that wit...
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
Re: A change in tone
Cliff Stamp wrote:Not intended, I was referring to what you were referring to. I thought I made that clear with the part "Not speaking of your post" part. One of the unfortunate things about the way people talk here is that we use you as interpersonal even in direct conversations where it makes no sense and instead "they" should be used. It carries over into other speech. I know it happens as I get called on it all the time when someone thinks I mean them, but it is an old habit and I didn't clarify it very well there at all. Ironically I did the very thing I complained about. I might be related to Alanis.ManixFan wrote: However, characterizing my post ...
This was me poking fun at statements which are obviously and absurdly false but superficially appear ok. Not only are the times wrong, but it isn't even the right army. But most people know that Archimedes is supposed to have made a kind of "don't no body touch my stuff" reference to the military before he was killed and the Spartans are an obvious ancient Military which are now pseudo-famous as they like to punt kick dudes for disrespecting their shorties.I am assuming that the 300 that you've referred to was in reference to the generally accepted usage of the "300 Spartans".....which was the "Battle of Thermopylae" 480 B.C. (Sparta vs Persia) whereas Archimedes supposedly lost his life near the end of the Siege of Syracuse ~212 B.C. (Romans vs Syracuse & Carthage).
Ninja stars are illegal, I might forge them into a katana which is perfectly legal. Ninjas are apparently a much bigger danger than Samurai.... as long as you don't sharpen them into ninja stars on a napkin and throw them back at me
Oh darn. and here I was thinking that I would be able to get to bed and have your wit to look forward to sometime tomorrow.
Sorry that I misunderstood your prior post in my referring to your reference to what I was referring to; we all make mistakes :o :p
Is that Alanis of the Ottawa "Morissette's" that you are referring to? I understand that she enjoys black flies with her Chardonnay......but doesn't quite get "irony". Ah well, if you are related to her then that at least that gives you the excuse of having a potential genetic predisposition on that issue. But a Katana made from Timbits......now that WOULD be impressive. Like I said if you are ever wandering around in the Toronto neighborhood, I'd really like to see that demonstration.......I'll even supply the Timbits. I also already have an Eastcoaster for a brother-in-law.......so I will already be attuned and accepting of speech patterns that might disturb some other native Torontonians. :D
OK, now - I'm off to bed!
Estne Spyderco in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? :eek:
Google est amicus! :D
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Re: A change in tone
My brother-in-law is from the Botwood area.......apparently that is the center of genius for the whole planet. Except for some outliers that exist in the Toronto area :rolleyes: . Hmmmn, I honestly thought Darby was talking about me........there goes my ego again - thinking its all about me. I'll have to develop some more humility and work on that. :rolleyes: :)Cliff Stamp wrote:Dude, I am way more intelligent than you, it says on my T-shirt, #1 Newf - you can't really match that. 80% of Newfoundlanders have above average intelligence, the other half didn't even take the test.ManixFan wrote:Cliff, no need to respond. I think that Darby is talking about me.
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Google est amicus! :D
Google est amicus! :D
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Re: A change in tone
It is either her or Bieber, you have to pick one. However in our defense you have Rebecca Black and I am pretty sure they use Friday at Guantanamo when waterboarding fails.ManixFan wrote:Is that Alanis of the Ottawa "Morissette's" that you are referring to?
We speak a whole different language here. I have to try to be civilized on video and speak actual English. When I was in India they all throught I was speaking Hindi as they could not even understand when I said "English!" . I was about to break out the Samuel Jackson.I also already have an Eastcoaster for a brother-in-law.......so I will already be attuned and accepting of speech patterns that might disturb some other native Torontonians.
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Re: A change in tone
Wow, small world. I spent two years working close to there while living with a schizophrenic chemist. He was a wild dude. He used to burn railway ties in his wood stove all the time and constantly complain about his chimney catching fire 1-2 times a year. I didn't believe he was a chemist until I was trying to tutor a kid in acid/base reactions and he flipped out and pushed me out of the way and started showing the kid how it was done in the real world. Things got a lot more interesting once I learned I was living with a real mad scientist which is what I always wanted to be when I grew up.ManixFan wrote: My brother-in-law is from the Botwood area.......apparently that is the center of genius for the whole planet.
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Re: A change in tone
If a man has not grown up by the time that he is forty, then there is no need to...
Confucious :)
Confucious :)
- The Mastiff
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Re: A change in tone
It seems like I've seen more people defending actions that don't really need defending or explaining. More people beating themselves up than actually attacking others, passive or not. Folks mostly are already but for those that aren't , lighten up a bit. On yourselves too.
joe
joe