Spyderco Fire Steel?

[GoldenSpydie]

I've got to try one of these GobSpark things...

[jmh58]

I've got to try one of these GobSpark things...

It works just like the video.. I highly recommend their palm striker, rod cover!! John :)

[simyo]

As far as the zippo/spyderco pairing mentioned. It probably won't happen due to the fact that sippo owns case knives or vice versa. Which is why they make the zippo/case pairings at different times throughout the year.

[NiallRiv]

I wonder if the spyder hole on Spyderco's Carbon blades would possibly even help facilitate a better spark throw? Think about it, we often complain on how sharp that hole comes from the factory. Plus it is a circle so it could wrap around the round fire steel better. Or even help keep your striking on target when your hands are getting cold and losing mobility

[.357 mag]

The interesting thing about fire steels is that they are an extreme example of hobbyist distortion of a practical issue. The arguments for them over much more effective fire starting tools are not justified, often heavily distorted, repeated without verification and often strongly advocated without any even attempt to verify the veracity of the claims.

Practical demonstration of the effectiveness of a ferrocerium rod vs a lighter shows that the rod requires much more preparation and is simply far less efficient. It is one of those odd things where an obviously inferior device is championed specifically because it takes more skill/experience to use it. If you were to give a rod vs lighter to someone who actually lit fires every day for work vs play, which one would they take?

Fortunately there are more people speaking out posting solid information on how a simply lighter isn't nearly as fragile as claimed and how some of the arguments are simply ridiculous. For example claims that a lighter would quickly wear out in a "real" situation because it can only light so many fires are just silly because you clothes would wear out long before a lighter would run out of fuel, let alone it will still throw sparks even when the fuel is gone.

Now I am not saying knowing how to prepare tinder to be able to light a fire from a spark isn't useful, it is just odd to base choices which start with a given handicap. Imagine designing a knife handle which only allows a grip with the thumb and index finger because you might get your other fingers broken in "survival" situation. Again, learning how to use a knife with a damaged hand is useful sure, but designing and carrying a knife with a built in injured hand restriction is a bit odd.

Here is one of the more balanced commentaries :

- http://woodtrekker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/ ... ghter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I use lighters to start 95% of my fires. However , I just a steel when I have more time.

regular Bic lighter won't work when wet. Yes you can get a spark but if you have tried to light a fire with the spark of a Bic lighter then you know know much that sucks.

[Cliff Stamp]

[...]
regular Bic lighter won't work when wet

Yes, but it will dry out very quickly and become functional again, even if fully submersed under water and it is trivial to make this a moot point by basic water proofing.

[tvenuto]

Might I suggest, that if we plan to further discuss the general merits (or lack thereof) of a fire steel, that we move this discussion to off topic?

[Johnnie1801]

Might I suggest, that if we plan to further discuss the general merits (or lack thereof) of a fire steel, that we move this discussion to off topic?

Well the thread got hijacked :mad: . The original question was whether Spyderco could supply fire steels with some of their fixed blade knives (i.e. the Bushcraft, Serrata, Schempp Rock, Temperance and Southfork) that they either make themselves or buy from another party.

[tvenuto]

Ah I worded it poorly. I meant the discussion not the actual thread. I started a fire steel discussion in off topic.

[Johnnie1801]

Ah I worded it poorly. I meant the discussion not the actual thread. I started a fire steel discussion in off topic.

Good idea, I should have done that earlier :p

[sal]

Lively discussion,

While Spyderco is not likely to create a fire starter as there are many good examples already being produced by experts, we are planning to do a mass test of many to determine which models we'll start to carry at the SFO. We've already collected a dozen or so, but any suggestions are appreciated.

sal

[Ankerson]

One of those 6 to one and 1/2 dozen to another type of things? :D

[Cliff Stamp]

[quote="sal"]..., we are planning to do a mass test of many to determine which models we'll start to carry at the SFO. /quote]

Sal, the main difference is the composition which effects both the hardness and the nature/volume of the sparks. There are very hard rods which behave similar to lighter flints (basically the same material). These have the longest lasting life, but they are hardest to use to start a fire. Then there are others which add magnesium and other elements which make the rods much softer and easier to scrape but they produce larger volumes of sparks and at the really high limit actually little globs of molten material. These will readily even light cardboard, woods directly with almost no preparation. What would be useful would be to make a block (there is no need for it to be a rod shape) which had a soft and then hard side. The side to be used could then be chosen based on conditions. If you have nice dry conditions, lots of nice tinder then you use the hard side which throws small sparks. However if it is wet, if you lack quality tinder, if you want to hurry a fire, then you use the softer high alloy side which throws off the big globs of molten metal.

[bearfacedkiller]

Sal, I think it comes down to your intended use. Some last longer and cost less and these are great for backpackers who like to use a fire steel to light their gas camp stove. Some throw tons of Sparks and do not last as long and cost sometimes many times as much and they are probably better for emergency situations. The latter, as I understand it, contain more magnesium and that makes them both softer and makes the sparks hotter. However, it also seems to make them cost more. I have found that it still takes a long time to wear out the softer ones like firesteel.com's gobspark.

It comes down to whether or not a $15 gobspark is worth it compared to the cheap $1 rods available. To me while it does not seem to be 15 times the rod quantitatively it is still well worth the higher price tag.

I am looking forward to seeing what you discover in your tests or at least which one you choose and why. I am sure there are a few great products out there but I haven't done any testing since the Gobspark has worked so well for me so far.

Also, the scraper can have a HUGE impact on performance. Many rods come with a good striker but nothing compares to the sparks thrown by the sharpening choil on my bk14 or the serrated edge of the file on either my leatherman wave or SAK craftsman.

[sal]

Thanx for the input. The plan is to have all of the methods lined up with prep for use, rotate 8 or 10 staff through the cycle using each one, learn as much as we can and then offer half dozen or so to local customers interested in the hobby. We'll probably carry a bow set up as well. I was studying one of those lst week.

In a way, they're kind of like blade steels, different solutions to a long time question. Like "Matter separators", fire has been around almost as wong as we have. Parallel evolutions.

As an aside, I also study chop sticks. Countries are different, materials are different, sizes are different, solutions vary as well, even in geometry's. They've also been around for a long time.

sal

[bearfacedkiller]

My Gobspark Ranger and a couple of my backpacking favorites that make great strikers. I do carry the striker that came with it also to save the edge of my tools but in an emergency I will grab what throws the most sparks every time.



Being able to get a good purchase on the rod is also not to be removed from the equation either. I made an improvised handle from another favorite survival tool of mine. A Fox40 whistle.



You can see how the file scrapes the rod. It throws gobs of sparks this way and I do not worry about the file like I do a knife edge.



Sorry if this is completely off topic but thought I would share my experiences so far to help if I can.

[tvenuto]

Now were completely off topic but I would totally buy some turned Spyderco chopsticks.

[sal]

Good info Killer. I plan to use this thread to help teach the staff.

Not ready on the chop sticks yet. I've made a few, but I'm still on the fence about some geometry's.

sal

[SpyderNut]

Good info Killer. I plan to use this thread to help teach the staff.

Not ready on the chop sticks yet. I've made a few, but I'm still on the fence about some geometry's.

sal

Not to derail this thread...

That is facinating about the chop sticks , Sal. Would you be willing to elaborate on what you mean about the different geometries?

[SpeedHoles]

Wow, what a thread to browse... :p

Interesting progression.

I don't use firesteel daily, nor a lighter in multiple baggies, but...
I do use ohashi daily.
I have some very nice portable ones from Snowpeak that are half wood and half stainless. Have used these on several backpacking trips over the past couple of decades. At home I simply use wood or lacquered wood chopsticks... I actually dislike the heavy slippery steel ones that are common in parts of Korea and such...