Paramilitary refinement - Need input.

[dete]

how about it comes with a detachable crossguard?

Some military knives seem to favor the crossguard for heavy duty
usage.

various shapes and designs from really big to rather small would be great.

[munchs]

I love my paras so much that I currently own three of them. I love comp lock and everything, but only one thing that I could not come to love was the protruding blade base (tang) when closed.

1) I wish the para had the same beautiful line of the tang area along the handle as the the military when closed . :)

2) If I should add one more, that would be ZDP or newer steels be used for the para.

Thanks.

[Bodieism]

your crazy about the lock bro,

Actually, I'm crazy about lockbacks... but I figured a ball bearing lock would have a lot more support and therefore a greater chance of actually being produced.

[mr.vu]

I remember a thead in which Military input was wanted, so here goes for both.

I would like to see a ball bearing type lock, although I do like the liner on the Military. Whats the stop lock? Was that ever explained?

Keep the big handle.


Vu

[Piet.S]

The finger choil can be a bit deeper, say by 1/8.
If not kept so close to it's family ties with the Military it can evolve into the direction of the Samaritan. Even better ergo's as a result.
The pivot pin is just 4mm, I would like it to be stouter, 1/4 inch or at least 3/16th.
The clip is stamped and has sharp edges, it tends to snag into softer materials.
I do like the high ride though, very accessible.
I like the compression lock very much, it is one of the things that make it such a great knife.
A possible improvement of it could be to make the locking liner a bit thicker, to 1/16th.
The blade doesn't need to grow for me, it does everything I need and I can still cover the tip with my finger for jobs where a possible puncture is a risk.

[para-force]

Sorry guys who were pushing for a liner lock, but I see that as a downgrade IMO. I'll take a compression lock over a liner lock any day.

That being said, if Militaries start being made with back locks, I see no reason why Paras shouldn't be made with them as well. That's the ideal lock for this knife IMO. Plus, if the knife were introduced with a 4-way clip, a back lock could accomodate all the lefties.

[proguide]

Sal, You make the best lockbacks in the business. Good for lefties and righties with a very solid lock up. In my opinion it's the most reliable and longest lasting of the bunch as well.

[Piet.S]

Changing the lock to a backlock would be inbreeding. There is allready the Manix-80mm. It's the diversity that keeps the pack healthy.
I'm right handed but find the Para very easy to operate with left as well.

[Axlis]

Howdy Sal

Boy, you asking a tough question for me, since I believe the Para is almost perfect as is. A four way clip sounds like a good deal to me, though I will probably keep it in the "proper" tip/down congfig . Heres what I would like to see:

More color! Maybe make it available in blue, or OD Green G-10. I believe this model has proven itself a good enough seller (it should be, to be considered for refinement) to see a little color variety.

I would also love to know what you plan on doing about the exposed tang. It's not really an issue for me, but I've heard others say they won't buy the Para because of it.

[TK]

1. I believe a 4way clip will be a necessary improvement.

I don't think that a 4-way clip is a necessary improvement, because this can cause some serious safety problems. Since the Comp Lock is some kind of Liner Lock, a tip-up carry option is somewhat like a live gun in a childs hand :eek: . It's a matter of time when the sharp blade of the tip-up carried knife opens accidentialy in the pocket and causes some serious injury. If more carry options are wanted, than only tip-down left/right.

2. We'll be doing somethng with the "sharp" corner at the back of the spine in the closed position.

This should be the first improvement to be done. I love the Para, but hate it for that sharp corner :mad: . Hope it will look like the Military when closed after the refinement.

Now other suggestions:
» Move blade joint more to the center and change from Para main pivot to old style main pivot used on the Military and Lil' Temp.
» Give the butt end a more rounded shape like on the Military.
» Add new style jimping found on the BG-42 Military to thumb-ramp and choil.
» A lower riding clip would be fine :rolleyes: . When clipped the knife should stand out of the pocket approx. 15-20mm to guarantee easy deployment and inconspicuous carry
» Move scale screw at the butt end more to the middle like on the Military. A cosmetic suggestion :D .

I've added a comparison picture between C36 and C81. Just change from red to green :D .

Thomas

[Ging]

More color! Maybe make it available in blue, or OD Green G-10. I believe this model has proven itself a good enough seller (it should be, to be considered for refinement) to see a little color variety.

What about a jean blue and a green along with the black. Then the Para will 'hide' in most clothing :p

[TK]

DON'T DO:

» Change blade shape and length
» Change handle material
» Change lock

Thomas

[Django]

In my opinion the G-10 should definitely stay black. I would like to see a lower-riding clip, doesn't have to make the knife invisible, but at least lower riding than the current one. Also, smooth out the sharp tang, hide it in the handle, whatever.

The clip and sharp tang have been the two reasons I have not yet purchased a Para.


-Django :spyder:

[J.B]

I can´t understand the mentioning of the colorably sharp tang. I never experienced this. The tang on my Paramilis looks not much rounded but it isn´t sharp at all. In the same way someone could have the idea the blade spine would be too sharp edged because these edges are much sharper than the tang. For those who think the tang is too sharp it would be simple to round it with a bit sanding paper like I did a few times with the sharp spyderholes. By the way I like them to be sharp. This way users that like it sharp maybe for using gloves have it sharp and others can very easily break the edges to their taste.

The (sharp) butt end of the Paramili is absolutely perfect for me. I wish the Mili would get the same end too. If one has the open knife in hand with tip down it prevents it from slipping through like it does while cutting. Again, if one likes it round it could be easily rounded from anybody, especially because in this area are no nested steel liners on the inside. The other way around it doesn´t work. One can´t bring back a rounded edge to sharp. I know, not everyone wants to modify a knife to own needs but I wish they would like to a bit more.

To try to give it a Mili tang shape in closed position would probably ruin the handle shape. To say don´t change the blade shape but give it a Mili tang is contratradictory in my eyes. Besides the Mili comes only very short behind the Paramili in my book because it sadly isn´t that sheeple friendly and I rate the compression lock over the liner lock.

New style jimpings sound good to me. Scale scew moving for cosmetics, no thanks. In addition I like to agree with everything that Piet.S said. I like his suggestions and point of view.

Hopefully the evolution of the Paramili will be a rather soft one. I only mentioned so many points to increase the input. Thanks for reading.

Best wishes,
JB

[WORKER#9]

Having owned 2 that I sold to friends. One is a LEO and he carrys it everday at work. It has some similarity to the Lil Temp and is one of Spydercos best designs. I would say don't change much! :D

But here is what I would like to see. A bigger stronger pivot! The Pivot needs to provide more support for the Blade. These smaller pivots after a some serious use get a little loose in the handle. I would think the addition of a bigger pivot would provide more surface area keeping the blade from developing play. My SE Lil Temp has got some from use. I think a larger pivot would have not allowed this to happen. Or maybe just larger pivot heads and washers on the outside of the G-10 nested to give the pivolt bolt more surface area. I am not sure this second option would Work.

Oh yes Green G-10! :)

[gordonk]

Many thx for asking Sal :) Pretty tough call here - it's already a pretty nice blade :D I would like to see a 4 way clip, ideally a low riding one. Nested steel liners? Hmmm...might be nice if the weight doesn't get out of hand. I think the weight difference between the Delica 3 and 4 was an excellent compromise in exchange for the liners. I don't use my Paramilitary all that much, but being a strong lefty, I don't have a problem with the compression lock as it is now. I think the eccentric stop pin idea would be a good one. I have medium small hands (cadet in golf terms) and handle size is is excellent for me. An ever so slightly shorter handle might be OK if the ability for hard use isn't compromised. This is one of the nice things I like about the Paramilitary, is that you can get a good grip for good control on hard cuts. It's not that others can't, i.e. Endura, but the Paramilitary seems to instill confidence on hard cuts more so than say an Endura. If anything, I wouldn't mind this slightly thinner, instead of shorter, which the steel liners may accomodate. Being thinner may accomodate pocket carry a bit better. When I was doing reno work, I used an Endura 3 quite hard, along with a Crow, but the one thing that really stood out about the Endura, was that despite it's size, it clipped well in my front pocket :) Blade size is good, the jimping like on the D4 is really nice (has also been mentioned), and would probably migrate to the Paramilitary very well.

In looking at what I have in my collection (100 + folders now), the Paramilitary, to me, is actually a pretty unique piece in it's own way. It's got a 3 inch blade, but has quite a large handle. It doesn't look overly massive per se, but it's not big either. It does, however, appear larger than it really is :) Most folders with 3 in blades look, well, "normal". If you look at the 3.5 inch or larger blades, they look big or massive. An Endura, for instance, looks very big (actually, it is :D ) but not massive, where as something like the Manix or Al Mar SERE 2K look massive, and they are. I recently acquired an Ontario RAT1 and it's also an interesting piece in the 3.5 inch category - it doesn't look that big for a blade that size.

Just my $0.02 CDN - gord

<edited for some typos>

[STR]

Sal. Great thread.

Aside from what you aready mentioned doing to improve the knife I'd suggest making the new model so it has a blade that measures 3" dead on. You don't have to shorten the blade or even change it to do that. Just bring the new handle scales out farther so that the ruler measures the blade length (not cutting edge length) as 3" which is legal in many places. I know of two guys that lost their Para Military knives to LEOs by being told they were illegal blades lengths so there are a couple of guys besides me out there wishing for this also.

On the clip: a low rider option is always going to be something to think about but maybe just trying to make the new clip mount positions situated so the knife doesn't stick out of the pocket any more than is needed would be a help to many end line users. Most of the complaints I hear from the guys sending me their Para Mils to add a low ride clip to are in regards to the amount of knife sticking out of their pocket. Many feel it is too much and that it is advertising to everyone that they have a knife in their pocket. I've also had a few tell me that the current clip tends to snag on things but in my mind that potential exists with all clips.

I like the knife but can't say I'm fond of the nested compression lock though. I'd much prefer a lock back option since you asked but it would be nice also to have the option in the nested compression lock of which side you want the lock to be situated on if changing the lock is not something you'll consider.

STR

[s11ews]

how about making a half titanium half g10 knife aka emerson hd7
you could make the lock out a compression lock still like the a.t.r

[Manix Guy 2]

This is a knife I have wanted for a long time the two points listed Sal would be a buy for lefty me ! I would like to see peeled CF or Green G10 for handles . Stonewash blade would be another plus in S30 V or BG-42 . Looking forward to this up date !

[Echo63]

just the 4 way clip,
and a sprint run with a left hand comp lock
that would be just about perfect