Show your Mule

[Ramonade]

I have a good amount of experience making knife scales using a trim router/mini table setup, and have a few pieces of advice for you. You are correct that making small parts is inherently dangerous, so you really need to be careful and use extreme caution when doing this. I have been a cabinetmaker by profession for over 20 years now, and I know that you cannot get complacent when doing this type of work or it will bite you!

My first piece of advice is to get yourself good quality top bearing router bits. For cutting the profile of the scales I use a solid carbide compression style bit, which means that it spirals up and down cuts simultaneously. This does two key things, it reduces tear out and it is less prone to grabbing the work piece.

My second piece of advice is to not try to take too heavy of a cut in one pass. This will result in tear out and the bit grabbing as well. With a profiling cut this means you want to trim your workpiece relatively close to size on a bandsaw, and with a chamfer cut you want to do an initial pass with the bit lower than your final pass.

My third piece of advice is to use a starter pin/fulcrum pin. This is so incredibly helpful when starting your cut and when managing difficult spots like when you cut around the tail end of a scale. Keep in mind that you always want to feed your piece against the direction of the cutter, and the pin will make it so much easier to start and stop your cuts.

I do all of my scales using top bearing bits in the mini table setup with a starter pin. You need to use either a template or something to act as a template. For a Mule I will often tape the blade and use the actual knife as the template. You just want to drill for your hardware first, then trim off the extra material on the bandsaw, then do my router work. I will try to come up with a more detailed tutorial with pictures for you if I can find a little time in the next few days.

I think this might still be less dangerous that what I'm doing now. I'm putting end mill bits in my drill press to get the grippy surface finish they provide on micarta. It puts lateral pressure on my tool and will eventually kill it. I even tried to cut some time in sanding by hand to make my scales flush by buying this bit :



The whole chuck assembly fell off once and it almost ended badly ! I need to build/buy that router table and invest in a mini mill. Thanks a lot for your feedback, I know how many hours I'll save, it was mostly a question of "is it doable" . I've even seen some table with pretty good safety around the bit so that you can throw yourself on it. In many situation it would have to be removed but it's nice to know it's possible :

[Ramonade]

Man, those Micarta scales look good @Ramonade Clean lines there.


I've been making so many wooden scales recently I wanted to try something different. These are aluminum honeycomb filled with dyed resin.

I think these are my new favorite scales. The way the aluminum honeycomb reflects the light in different angles is hard to catch in a picture but looks incredible irl.

Looks like I need to step back to about 600 or 320 grit in a few spots since I can still see lots of scratches in the pictures that I can't really see in my hand but I think it will be worth it to really dial these ones in.

I've got some red ones like this on the cnc now and will be trying some green after that. It's a slow process with these but I'm pretty happy so far.

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Really nice ! Honeycomb/resin scales can sometime look weird IMHO but these ones are fire ! I love the pattern you do on woods too, a CNC is truely a formidable tool once you start being able to do more intricate things with it

[CasperFatone]

I have a good amount of experience making knife scales using a trim router/mini table setup, and have a few pieces of advice for you. You are correct that making small parts is inherently dangerous, so you really need to be careful and use extreme caution when doing this. I have been a cabinetmaker by profession for over 20 years now, and I know that you cannot get complacent when doing this type of work or it will bite you!

My first piece of advice is to get yourself good quality top bearing router bits. For cutting the profile of the scales I use a solid carbide compression style bit, which means that it spirals up and down cuts simultaneously. This does two key things, it reduces tear out and it is less prone to grabbing the work piece.

My second piece of advice is to not try to take too heavy of a cut in one pass. This will result in tear out and the bit grabbing as well. With a profiling cut this means you want to trim your workpiece relatively close to size on a bandsaw, and with a chamfer cut you want to do an initial pass with the bit lower than your final pass.

My third piece of advice is to use a starter pin/fulcrum pin. This is so incredibly helpful when starting your cut and when managing difficult spots like when you cut around the tail end of a scale. Keep in mind that you always want to feed your piece against the direction of the cutter, and the pin will make it so much easier to start and stop your cuts.

I do all of my scales using top bearing bits in the mini table setup with a starter pin. You need to use either a template or something to act as a template. For a Mule I will often tape the blade and use the actual knife as the template. You just want to drill for your hardware first, then trim off the extra material on the bandsaw, then do my router work. I will try to come up with a more detailed tutorial with pictures for you if I can find a little time in the next few days.

I think this might still be less dangerous that what I'm doing now. I'm putting end mill bits in my drill press to get the grippy surface finish they provide on micarta. It puts lateral pressure on my tool and will eventually kill it. I even tried to cut some time in sanding by hand to make my scales flush by buying this bit :



The whole chuck assembly fell off once and it almost ended badly ! I need to build/buy that router table and invest in a mini mill. Thanks a lot for your feedback, I know how many hours I'll save, it was mostly a question of "is it doable" . I've even seen some table with pretty good safety around the bit so that you can throw yourself on it. In many situation it would have to be removed but it's nice to know it's possible :

That bit is exactly like the one that I use. You’ll be amazed at how quickly you can trim a set of scales to be perfectly flush. I will often leave the front of the scales long and then cut them after the flush trimming because it’s a spot that is prone to chipping out. See the spot by my thumb in this picture. Really I should have left even more material on this set, but I did this all in a bit of a rush just to get some pics


You’ll want to cut a spacer to place between the scale and the tang, which keeps you from hitting the tang with your bit. The spacer needs to be slightly undersized in relation to the tang since you don’t want the bearing riding on the spacer. I use 1/8” Masonite, but any thin stock will do. My recommendation would be to not go thicker than 1/4” with the spacer to keep things well aligned.

For beveling you want to get a small chamfering bit with a bearing. This time you’ll use the two scales pinned together with a spacer between them. Here is a video of me doing the initial pass on the bevels-



Here are a couple of pics of the beveled scales after a second pass


I took those pics immediately after routing, before doing any sanding. I should have used thicker stock for these, but like I said they were really just done quickly to get some pictures. It just so happened I had some 1/8” thick pieces of Bloodwood sitting around so that’s what I used.

Let me know if you have any questions, either now or when you get setup with a router :)

[Bolster]

Thanks for the tutorial, Casper!

[Ramonade]

I have a good amount of experience making knife scales using a trim router/mini table setup, and have a few pieces of advice for you. You are correct that making small parts is inherently dangerous, so you really need to be careful and use extreme caution when doing this. I have been a cabinetmaker by profession for over 20 years now, and I know that you cannot get complacent when doing this type of work or it will bite you!

My first piece of advice is to get yourself good quality top bearing router bits. For cutting the profile of the scales I use a solid carbide compression style bit, which means that it spirals up and down cuts simultaneously. This does two key things, it reduces tear out and it is less prone to grabbing the work piece.

My second piece of advice is to not try to take too heavy of a cut in one pass. This will result in tear out and the bit grabbing as well. With a profiling cut this means you want to trim your workpiece relatively close to size on a bandsaw, and with a chamfer cut you want to do an initial pass with the bit lower than your final pass.

My third piece of advice is to use a starter pin/fulcrum pin. This is so incredibly helpful when starting your cut and when managing difficult spots like when you cut around the tail end of a scale. Keep in mind that you always want to feed your piece against the direction of the cutter, and the pin will make it so much easier to start and stop your cuts.

I do all of my scales using top bearing bits in the mini table setup with a starter pin. You need to use either a template or something to act as a template. For a Mule I will often tape the blade and use the actual knife as the template. You just want to drill for your hardware first, then trim off the extra material on the bandsaw, then do my router work. I will try to come up with a more detailed tutorial with pictures for you if I can find a little time in the next few days.

I think this might still be less dangerous that what I'm doing now. I'm putting end mill bits in my drill press to get the grippy surface finish they provide on micarta. It puts lateral pressure on my tool and will eventually kill it. I even tried to cut some time in sanding by hand to make my scales flush by buying this bit :



The whole chuck assembly fell off once and it almost ended badly ! I need to build/buy that router table and invest in a mini mill. Thanks a lot for your feedback, I know how many hours I'll save, it was mostly a question of "is it doable" . I've even seen some table with pretty good safety around the bit so that you can throw yourself on it. In many situation it would have to be removed but it's nice to know it's possible :

That bit is exactly like the one that I use. You’ll be amazed at how quickly you can trim a set of scales to be perfectly flush. I will often leave the front of the scales long and then cut them after the flush trimming because it’s a spot that is prone to chipping out. See the spot by my thumb in this picture. Really I should have left even more material on this set, but I did this all in a bit of a rush just to get some pics


You’ll want to cut a spacer to place between the scale and the tang, which keeps you from hitting the tang with your bit. The spacer needs to be slightly undersized in relation to the tang since you don’t want the bearing riding on the spacer. I use 1/8” Masonite, but any thin stock will do. My recommendation would be to not go thicker than 1/4” with the spacer to keep things well aligned.

For beveling you want to get a small chamfering bit with a bearing. This time you’ll use the two scales pinned together with a spacer between them. Here is a video of me doing the initial pass on the bevels-



Here are a couple of pics of the beveled scales after a second pass


I took those pics immediately after routing, before doing any sanding. I should have used thicker stock for these, but like I said they were really just done quickly to get some pictures. It just so happened I had some 1/8” thick pieces of Bloodwood sitting around so that’s what I used.

Let me know if you have any questions, either now or when you get setup with a router :)

I would not have dared to ask that much of you but your post is EXACTLY what I wanted to learn and see ! The post to have something to lean the part on before leaning towards the bit is very clever and must avoid many errors/risks. This message made my day yesterday ! Thanx much

[bob-atlatl]

Thanks for sharing Casper, lots of good ideas from your posts !

[standy99]

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

[legOFwhat?]

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

[legOFwhat?]

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

Hahahahah I was wondering if my brain had the same reaction as others. It did!

Can I lick it

Sure you can!

[hollowt1pz]

Hmmm. Unfortunately, no I can't post one because someone destroyed it sadface.

Can I lick it

Sometimes I ask myself how much he's kidding.. or is he?

Jason, show em why I'm laughing so hard you know how you have all those candy canes. Take a picture please lols.

[legOFwhat?]

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

Picture shows on my phone, so must be my pc that is the problem.....

[CasperFatone]

Fresh set of Gabon Ebony scales I made on my HIC Mule. Last night I ordered some black screws so I can go full stealth

[CasperFatone]

Fresh set of Gabon Ebony scales I made on my HIC Mule. Last night I ordered some black screws so I can go full stealth

I like that. A lot. Get a few with the black screws if you don't mind so I know if I should switch over. I've wanted to use CF but I don't have any. I think with a dark weave it would look pretty badass but I can't say yours is any different lol and the wood imperfections with that stain finish.. ah. I think make it just.. real pretty hah. Good idea man

I'm not typically a fan of pure black but with the HIC material I think it's absolutely gorgeous as far as a knife goes. It's different with steel or c/p vapor disposition type coatings KTL whatever you want to call it on steel. The same above with the slight nickelesque gold reflection of a high polished edge - primo

Jason

I have both black and titanium screws ordered. That way I can also try some gold or blue anodized screws with the black. Tomorrow I’ll hit these scales on the buffing wheel to get them looking right

[CasperFatone]

Cocobolo scales that are fresh off the buffing wheel. No finish or buffing compound, just sanded to 1000 grit then buffed with a raw cotton fabric wheel. You can see why this wood is so desirable.

[hoshko]

For those that have made wooden handles, what size pins did you use? 4mm? 6mm?

[legOFwhat?]

For those that have made wooden handles, what size pins did you use? 4mm? 6mm?

I only use 3/16" pins. The larger holes are 3/8" and the lanyard hole is 1/4" if I remember correctly.

[sal]

Hi Hoshko,

Welcome to our forum.

Hey Casper,

Great stuff. Thanx much for sharing.

sal

[Bolster]

Cocobolo scales that are fresh off the buffing wheel. No finish or buffing compound, just sanded to 1000 grit then buffed with a raw cotton fabric wheel. You can see why this wood is so desirable.

Casper, what kind of fasteners are those? They appear to be flat or domed the same on both sides?

[CasperFatone]

Cocobolo scales that are fresh off the buffing wheel. No finish or buffing compound, just sanded to 1000 grit then buffed with a raw cotton fabric wheel. You can see why this wood is so desirable.

Casper, what kind of fasteners are those? They appear to be flat or domed the same on both sides?

Those are just two pieces of 3/16” stainless rod that I was using in the shaping process. I put a slight bevel on the ends just to make inserting them a little easier. They fit pretty snug when both pins are in and won’t come out unless I push them out intentionally. I like to use them so I don’t have to keep screwing and unscrewing connectors, and I don’t need to worry about messing them up in any way.

I always do my final sanding/shaping/polishing with the scales pinned together like this. It’s nice because you avoid rounding over the scales where they meet the tang. It also makes it much harder to accidentally sand the edge to where it might end up no longer flush with the tang.

[CasperFatone]

For those that have made wooden handles, what size pins did you use? 4mm? 6mm?

I could argue that the pins are almost useless. Their diameter isn't exactly for strength it's for looks. Let's just walk through together how we make full tang knives in my shop or anywhere really. It's not a very efficient way of holding scales on or in place. It would need to be a mechanical bond and I'm assuming that all of you guys overdrill your holes slightly as I do in either metric or SAE, or let's say drill to EXACT sizes, it's still not going to work on the chemical bonding. I could see it making a difference if being dropped extremely hard or something like that but again, not technically the design. I'm a Chicago screw guy and I only use them on g10 not acrylics due to the.. obvious. I do prefer a mechanical bond but I have found in testing that the science is.. not exactly what I was taught in the real world (as should be expected by real scientists) and a good epoxy (not BJ's, people have their own preferences) can EXCEED my mechanical bond number expectations and any normal person's expectations. The steel usually fails first in my experience but I'm about as controlled environment as it gets, I don't want to say anything that could make someone think that I can't be wrong. I assure you I am often. Don't really gotta overcomplicate these full tang guys as I've learned - they don't do change or really like extremely boring to most people science stuff. I always prefer a mechanical and chemical bond FYI. I'm separating the two intentionally for these purposes based on entropy for the purposes of conversation and ease.

Screw heads? Look like CNCd to me almost or something like that? It's not a machine finish unless... intentional. Difficult to tell however I was busy looking at the wood grain lol

Edit: nvm they not fasteners they're pins that he's cut and sanded. Duh! (Please confirm my suspicions here or I'm going to seriously look like a moron )

Jas

You are 100% correct regarding the pins :)