Potential fake from reputable dealer

[Aremso]

Hi all

I recently received a dragonfly ZDP from a large vendor.

The knife looks like original Spyderco (fit and finish) but it does not have the seki-city marking.

http://i.imgur.com/h7ab19n.jpg

Can anyone help as to whether this knife is genuine?

Cheers

[Aremso]

A few more pics here

http://imgur.com/a/efHAQ

[The Deacon]

I'd be leery of it. It may be a case where the blade just did not get stamped on the one side, but with the number of fakes out there these days I would not take a chance on it. Where did you purchase it, and can you return it to them?

[Blerv]

There is no reason a reputable dealer would sell a fake. Most have a reputation that spans at least a decade and those things cannot be repaired if broken. If bought from Knifecenter, Cutleryshoppe, GP Knives, BladeHQ, Howes, Sierra, Knifeworks, etc I would assume it's just an oddly processed knife.

Not sure there is much we can say that will put your mind to ease though. I would work on returning the product and go elsewhere just so it doesn't bother you. The longer you wait the harder that process will be. Good luck!

[bearfacedkiller]

Tough to say. I wouldn't trust it. It is always possible that somebody bought a real one from a reputable dealer and then returned a fake and they didn't notice.

[wrdwrght]

If the knife was purchased new from a reputable seller and you can't get the seller either to exchange it (because of its flaw), or at least identify its distributor (to establish bona fides), I think it might be time to involve Spyderco. Spyderco can determine whether the knife is authentic and whether the distributor is authorized, and thus, maybe, give you recourse.

[Aremso]

I would return it but unfortunately I'm from Australia (where shipping to the USA would cost 30% the value of this particular knife).

I guess I'll contact the dealer and see what they can do.

[anagarika]

I don't know about Dragonfly, but for Endura, the fakes don't have full FRN 'teeth' around the logo, but I can't see clearly from the images posted.

Checkout this discussion and corresponding video by Les Garten.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... st15468929

Hope the dealer gets it resolved for you.

[Aremso]

Knifecenter is yet to reply to my email and unfortunately the only way Spyderco can apparently assist me is if I send the knife back to the USA. They cant ID from photos.

[Aremso]

So it seems like knifecenter doesn't want to take any responsibility-

Quote
"
I apologize for the confusion on what potential markings were missing. As mentioned, we are an authorized retailer for Spyderco and only get them new from authorized sources. Unfortunately we do not have any in stock at the moment so I wouldn't be able to pull one to look at the markings. I would recommend reaching out to Spyderco. Their email is:

customerservice@spyderco.com
"

Is there anyone from Spyderco that frequents the forum?
Emailing the customer service at Spyderco gives me the impression they can't be stuffed to even look at the photos.

A bit appalled actually at the level of customer service by both companies. After using and collecting Spydercos for years I've never had to contact their CS department, but really... I expected more.

[anagarika]

Kristi, Sal & Mike usually patrol the forum so any of them might drop in and say something.

If it's my knife:
- Knife Center has confirmed they are sure the knife is legitimate.
- Missing stamp if it's original won't bother me.
- I don't know if fake dragonfly will have missing FRN teeth like Endura, so I'd search images & videos to compare
- the fake ZDP also doesn't have the real BRG color, it tends to be black. So if I can see it's dark green and not black, it's likely to be real.
- I know what steel Chinese faker will use from testing 8Cr, so if this ZDP sharpened much harder, then it is true ZDP.

Once I can find those clues & confirm, I'd be ok, the knife simply missing tang stamp.

However, if I bought from Amazon, or eBay, I'd ask for exchange.

What I'm trying to say, is given the circumstances, it seems to be real. I also live far from US, so it's a risk I always have to be ready to take, i.e getting a fake & have to send to Spyderco, or just accept & write off the loss.

There are authorized dealer in Australia (Sal mentioned some), so if one wants assurance, and can exchange locally there's option to buy from them. If one wants cheaper price (I do), take the risk & order directly from US.

Getting from Knife Center is good choice. It's should be guaranteed genuine (they say so). Unless you can't live without the tang stamp, then you can ask them for exchange and wait some more time.

Lastly, try writing to customer service & point them to this thread. You can't condemn them before even asking (?). They are helpful.

[The Deacon]

I'd interpret what KnifeCenter said as sufficient reason to believe the knife is genuine. Truth is, even if they had more in stock, the fact that they all had tang stamps would not mean that yours is fake. Factory errors, like a missing tang stamp, are hard to document as they're just as likely to appear only on a single specimen as on an entire batch. Beyond that, the only people who can say for certain whether a given knife is a genuine Spyderco are the folks in Golden, and they can't do it just by looking at photos, they'd need the knife in hand to make that determination. So, since KC says it's ok, if it passes anagarika's other tests, I'd be satisfied that it was real.

[bearfacedkiller]

Have you used and sharpened ZDP before? It is a very unique steel and I would be able to tell if it was real or not just by sharpening it. Counterfeiters wouldn't have used anything even remotely similar to ZDP.

[Aremso]

I haven't sharpened ZDP before but I noticed this blade has a burr on a few spots.

Most of my knives are s30v, s35vn, cts-204p. Any of those similar to ZDP?

I don't really want to touch it atm until I can sort something out with Knifecenter.

[ejames13]

Everything in the photos you posted indicates it is 100% genuine in my opinion.

Laser etching on the front looks right. Grind looks good. Also, ZDP is sharpened differently than Spyderco's VG-10, and the grit marks left on the edge are very unique. The grit marks on your knife appear to be identical to every ZDP knife I've had from Spyderco.

Something else I've noticed about ZDP is that it's slightly yellow when compared to other steels like VG-10 or S30V. Hold it up next to one of your S30V knives and see if there's a noticeable color difference.

[dplafoll]

That thing looks just like mine. I'd say it's real.

[anagarika]

One more thing: the grind line/finish of the spine. All Seki knives are finished with lines perpendicular to blade length.
Chinese copies that I've seen all has the spine finish parallel to blade length, which happened to genuine Resilience and GB1.
None of my Seki made knives are like that (unless modded).

James is right. ZDP is a bit yellowish compared to VG10. I don't have S30V to compare.

[Aremso]

I finally got around to sharpening on my edge pro.

I did not have any difficulty getting it to a mirror edge.

Based on experience with sharpening...it definitely is not Aus-8 or 8CR13mov soft. But it did not seem significantly difficult to sharpen to 40 degrees inclusive (similar to probably s35vn). I seem to have the most difficulty with vg10 out of all steels.

Does that sound right?

[anagarika]

I finally got around to sharpening on my edge pro.

I did not have any difficulty getting it to a mirror edge.

Based on experience with sharpening...it definitely is not Aus-8 or 8CR13mov soft. But it did not seem significantly difficult to sharpen to 40 degrees inclusive (similar to probably s35vn). I seem to have the most difficulty with vg10 out of all steels.

Does that sound right?

Doing 40° inclusive means almost a microbevel. My Endura is at around 30°

Having said that, if it's not 8Cr soft then it should be ok. ZDP will perform best with diamond, acute angle and light pressure. Too heavy a pressure will result in micro chipping.

I think it's all right combined with all the other factors (FRN pattern, etc).

VG10 is more difficult due to burr removal. It's burr is really stubborn. But that's another topic altogether.

[Mini2white]

I compared your photos to my knife and they look the same just no Seki stamp.