Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

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Coastal
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Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#1

Post by Coastal »

If that's how they're supposed to be, that's cool, I don't mind as long as my knife is like everyone else's!

I received it a few days ago, and I'm thankful to have found one at a decent price, but I was surprised at how gritty the button feels. Not like there's really grit in the mechanism, but like the button is repeatedly hesitating for a few microseconds while being depressed, due to sideways pressure. If pressed decisively, like a person would in actual use, it works fine, and just feels stiff. REAL stiff. If pressed more slowly, with ever-increasing pressure, it crunches 5 times before releasing the blade.

It's the blacked-out version, both the button and the surrounding material coated, so maybe that's the cause. My questions are: Do all Autonomy 2s behave this way? All coated ones? Do they break in after awhile? I lubed mine with KPL, and can tell absolutely no difference. Would more or different lube help? Should I send it in for warranty work?... :thinking
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#2

Post by Bemo »

I've had mine for about 2 weeks. It is the uncoated blade. Deploying exhibits no grittiness. I will say that manipulating the button to close has some harshness or grittiness. I think it's the button plunger scraping against the g10 on the non-button side.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#3

Post by Coastal »

Thanks, Bemo. Mine is crunchy both opening and closing, but worse opening. It's even crunchy with the blade locked in the fully open position. Crunchy or harsh is a better word than gritty.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#4

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

Coastal wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:26 pm
Thanks, Bemo. Mine is crunchy both opening and closing, but worse opening. It's even crunchy with the blade locked in the fully open position. Crunchy or harsh is a better word than gritty.
I would suggest discussing this with someone at Spyderco. I’m am absolutely not an expert with Spyderco Autos but have a few other brands and it appears to me and just my opinion that something is not quite right . If it was mine and made such an investment I would expect it to operate without any flaws in operation opening or closing . Regards MG2
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#5

Post by Coastal »

Thanks, good idea, MG2. I think I'll try to get Evil D to respond first. He's an Autonomy maven.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#6

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

Coastal wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:03 pm
Thanks, good idea, MG2. I think I'll try to get Evil D to respond first. He's an Autonomy maven.
I could not agree more . MG2
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#7

Post by Evil D »

Coastal wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:06 pm
If that's how they're supposed to be, that's cool, I don't mind as long as my knife is like everyone else's!

I received it a few days ago, and I'm thankful to have found one at a decent price, but I was surprised at how gritty the button feels. Not like there's really grit in the mechanism, but like the button is repeatedly hesitating for a few microseconds while being depressed, due to sideways pressure. If pressed decisively, like a person would in actual use, it works fine, and just feels stiff. REAL stiff. If pressed more slowly, with ever-increasing pressure, it crunches 5 times before releasing the blade.

It's the blacked-out version, both the button and the surrounding material coated, so maybe that's the cause. My questions are: Do all Autonomy 2s behave this way? All coated ones? Do they break in after awhile? I lubed mine with KPL, and can tell absolutely no difference. Would more or different lube help? Should I send it in for warranty work?... :thinking


If you read through this thread you'll see that I commented about a notchy feeling from the button after the first couple days of having it, but it was only while the blade is closing against the resistance of the lock pressing against it. In other words if you press the button while closing the blade, it should be smooth.

viewtopic.php?t=76985#p1199021


That was a little over 4 years ago and I've since opened and closed it an uncountable number of times, and I've taken it apart one time to remove the safety because I had it switch to the on position in my pocket a few times and that's a major safety issue in my book, the same as needing to fire a weapon in self defense only to find the safety is on when you didn't expect it.

Today I never give the button feel a second thought. The press and fire of the blade is done so quickly during use that it just doesn't register in my mind. It really wasn't until you messaged me that it even occurred to me at all but sitting here fiddling with it, I'd say probably 95% of the gritty feeling is gone. I wonder how much of the feedback in the button is from the spring itself?

If you're familiar with pistol trigger take-up and break, there's a similar action going on here. I'd say the take-up has smoothed to nearly perfect really, in fact it seems the slower I press the button the more smooth it feels. Also keep in mind this is probably the dirtiest knife I own, it never gets taken apart (hasn't for several years) and goes to work with me everyday. I don't make a habit of dropping it in mud or anything like that but as an honest 60 hour a week EDC it's as dirty as anything else out there so I bet with a disassembly and cleaning and regressing it would probably be smooth as glass. I also keep the pivot adjusted a bit more snug than you probably would any thumb hole knife because you can get away with it with how strong the blade fires, so you can actually eliminate every trace of blade play.



Anyway I'm not sure if that answers your question? There is at least one other thread here about an Autonomy 2 having a really bad button action and that one was taken apart and showed some pretty extreme wear on the plunger button. I don't think that member ever got back to us if they talked to Spyderco about it. I meant to take mine apart and see how mine looked but I've sorta leaned towards the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" side and just wait until I have a real need to take it apart again because this isn't the easiest one to get back together.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#8

Post by Coastal »

Thanks, David. I think you did answer my question: No, this is not normal. Your Autonomy didn't do it and, now that I think about it, there aren't a bunch of similar complaints from other forum members. Yes, I've read your original thread several times (and just re-read it). It was one of the motivators that led to my purchase. My issue is not the same as yours, but it's likely related. You're trigger take-up analogy is particularly apt. It feels like an especially bad autoloader trigger. If this were a firearm, I would know immediately what to do, either personally or via a gunsmith, depending on the firearm. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the Autonomy's action, and I'm not about to disassemble it and try my hand!

I don't mind a stiff button, because said stiffness lessens the likelihood of an unintended discharge, to stay with the firearms analogy. It's the crunchiness that bothers me, because it feels excessive and it's annoying. Another thing seems odd to me, but again, it may be normal and I just don't know it. If I hold the blade closed, depress the blade slightly and press the button, it becomes even more crunchy. I realize that's not a normal action, but I thought it might be instructive, so I tried it.

In any case, none of this prevents the knife from functioning. I guess I'll use the knife for a while, and look for signs of improvement. I'll cycle the button hundreds or thousands of times without deploying the blade, and if no improvement, I'll probably send it to Spyderco for a look.

In the meantime, I plan to purchase an original orange Autonomy to serve as a kayak knife. Thanks for your response, and for your many informative posts!

Steve
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#9

Post by Evil D »

I think it's a break-in thing. There is still a spot near full open that's crunchy, but that's the spot that doesn't see a lot of wear because of the way I press the button and fold the blade shut, it doesn't rub against the plunger nearly as much as the rest of it does during the opening and closing arc and I only feel it when I slowly push the button to unlock and then let go of it and feel the blade move closed from nearly full open.

In the other thread where someone had a badly worn plunger they had metal shavings visible inside and out but I've never noticed anything like that.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#10

Post by Coastal »

Evil D wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:54 pm
I think it's a break-in thing. There is still a spot near full open that's crunchy, but that's the spot that doesn't see a lot of wear because of the way I press the button and fold the blade shut, it doesn't rub against the plunger nearly as much as the rest of it does during the opening and closing arc and I only feel it when I slowly push the button to unlock and then let go of it and feel the blade move closed from nearly full open.

In the other thread where someone had a badly worn plunger they had metal shavings visible inside and out but I've never noticed anything like that.
I hope you're right about break-in. At best, I can cycle the button about 4 times per second with the blade open; 2 times per second is more realistic as a long-term, ongoing process. I hope that will have some effect on the operation of the button with the blade closed. We'll see.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#11

Post by Evil D »

Coastal wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:58 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:54 pm
I think it's a break-in thing. There is still a spot near full open that's crunchy, but that's the spot that doesn't see a lot of wear because of the way I press the button and fold the blade shut, it doesn't rub against the plunger nearly as much as the rest of it does during the opening and closing arc and I only feel it when I slowly push the button to unlock and then let go of it and feel the blade move closed from nearly full open.

In the other thread where someone had a badly worn plunger they had metal shavings visible inside and out but I've never noticed anything like that.
I hope you're right about break-in. At best, I can cycle the button about 4 times per second with the blade open; 2 times per second is more realistic as a long-term, ongoing process. I hope that will have some effect on the operation of the button with the blade closed. We'll see.


One thing I did do was grease all the moving parts when I had it apart with Phil Wood bearing grease. I don't know if I'd recommend taking this one apart unless you're very confident in your ability to get it back together, or at the very least without a spring kit from Spyderco that comes with a little tool to use to reinstall the spring. I didn't have that tool and had no idea what I was doing so maybe it isn't as difficult as it seemed but this is a few steps more difficult than something like a Para 2.

Yesterday after I posted I was looking mine over and it was pretty filthy inside the pivot, so I thought I'd first try rinsing it out. I used the kitchen sink sprayer to try to force some water in there and get the lint and crud out and then I lubed it with a liberal amount of Nano Oil (not because it's my favorite, I just paid a lot for this stuff so I figured I'd give it a try). After rinsing it the action was actually slower than before, so I think I may have rinsed out what grease was left but adding the oil made it smooth and fast again.

I'm watching for an orange one to come back in stock, when I get it I'll follow up with this thread about how that one feels and how it breaks in.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#12

Post by Coastal »

Thanks. I'm going to order the spring kit for sure, when they come back in stock.

I estimate I've put ~1,000 cycles on the button, and the character of its crunchiness has definitely changed. That in itself shows that it's breaking in, so you were right! At first, the button moved in 5 large, distinct steps, every time, as I increased pressure. Now, it moves in 11-12 smaller, more slidy steps, with the last being the longest slide, leading to firing. Hopefully this eventually becomes one long slide.

I'm relieved that 1) this is almost certainly a break-in issue and, 2) that dry-cycling the button with the blade open is an effective break-in tactic. Firing from fully closed might be more effective but...what a pain!
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#13

Post by Rinzler »

Why does the grittiness go away over time? Because the metal has been removed.

All 4 of my autonomies exhibit the same problem.

This is what is happening: Image

I’ve spoken to Spyderco warranty in the phone. They said they would look at the “lock button only” however when I went in in person, I was told absolutely not.

Spyderco will not even look at the **** lock button as a button. Not the knife, just the button. I was extremely disappointed because this is actual wear on a component that they refuse to recognize.

If anyone is reading this, I again offer to bring you this part in person for your evaluation. I can be there in 5 minutes. Just say the word.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#14

Post by Bemo »

Hmmm this is interesting. When my spring replacement kit comes in and I have the spring tool, I may take a look at mine. Thanks for posting this.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#15

Post by Coastal »

Rinzler wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:32 pm
Why does the grittiness go away over time? Because the metal has been removed.

All 4 of my autonomies exhibit the same problem.

This is what is happening: Image

I’ve spoken to Spyderco warranty in the phone. They said they would look at the “lock button only” however when I went in in person, I was told absolutely not.

Spyderco will not even look at the **** lock button as a button. Not the knife, just the button. I was extremely disappointed because this is actual wear on a component that they refuse to recognize.

If anyone is reading this, I again offer to bring you this part in person for your evaluation. I can be there in 5 minutes. Just say the word.

Wow, thanks for posting this, Rinzler.

I assume that in most "break-in" processes, the breaking in occurs via metal removal, but usually only a tiny amount. Do all of your buttons exhibit the same amount of removal? Did the removal occur through usage, or because you did what I am doing: cycling the button like mad, to accelerate the break-in process? Were they all gritty to begin with?

Are any of your Autonomies the coated versions? Mine is the blacked-out Autonomy 2 PE. Nearly all the hardware is coated, but probably with something other than DLC. I thought I would see shiny spots developing on the button as coating was worn away and bare metal exposed, but I see nothing, even though the grittiness is diminishing. I can't even tell, without disassembling the knife, what the button is rubbing on.

I actually like the stiffness of the button, but I wish it were smoothly stiff rather than harshly stiff.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#16

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

After seeing and reading all of these posts it makes me rather reluctant to purchase. I may stick with what I have . MG2
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Gritty button update...

#17

Post by Coastal »

Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:53 am
After seeing and reading all of these posts it makes me rather reluctant to purchase. I may stick with what I have . MG2
Hey, MG2, I'll keep updating, but after cycling the button MANY times -- probably in the low thousands -- the button's action is much improved. If I had received the knife in its current condition, I would have thought, "Wow, this'll be great once it breaks in," rather than, "Whoa... That button is gritty! I wonder if that's normal."
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#18

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

Thank you, I hope it works for you and look forward to future comments . Dan
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#19

Post by jegred2 »

Neither of mine are gritty, though the button on my all black does rub the G10 in one spot.
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Re: Autonomy 2 button... gritty?

#20

Post by Coastal »

Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:14 pm
Thank you, I hope it works for you and look forward to future comments . Dan
Well, I've put in another week of occasionally cycling my Autonomy's button while reading, watching YouTube's etc., and I can say the stickiness/grittiness has subsided considerably.

When pressed as in normal use, the button is entirely satisfactory. It's stiff enough that I doubt I'll ever fire it inadvertently.

When pressed slowly, with ever-increasing pressure, there is one distinct crunch, then a slow slide against firm resistance until it fires. I'm okay with it, and I plan to eventually put the Autonomy into rotation without further angst. :hugging-face :sunflower :bug-red
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