Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

Discussion of Restricted Models by Spyderco.
User avatar
archangel
Member
Posts: 2372
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:02 pm
Location: Wuppertal, Germany, Earth

Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#1

Post by archangel »

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:09 pm
Lol. California logic: It's not the size of the blade or how fast you can open it, it's the WAY you open a knife that makes it dangerous.

Consider that there is no appreciable difference in the time it takes to open knives by these methods. Dare I say some of the legal methods like waves are even faster than Auto's and Balisongs.

Wave open = safe
Spydie flick = safe
Thumb open a Spyderhole = safe
Thumb open thumb stud = safe
Push a flipper tab = safe
Push open a spring assisted blade = safe
Push a button = DANGER
Swing open a balisong = DANGER
Use Gravity = DANGER

Alas no Illegal Dangerous Smallfly for me, I'll have to carry the Safe Legal Police 4 instead :rolleyes:

I know first hand that Germany declared Balisongs and OTFs illegal not because they think these can be deployed faster than other knives (although probably this is true, at least to a certain extend) but because you cannot see any part of the blade when they're closed, thus a muggle (non-knife person) cannot identify them as knife when they are drawn from a pocket but not yet deployed. I'd say that >95% of the folding knives show the blade's spine. Most people will be able to identify those as knives, for whatever that's good. The <5% of folding knives that are no Balisongs or OTFs that show no blade spine when closed (e.g. Stilettos) are quasi-illegal in Germany too, means if for any reason authorities search your home and find such a knife, you're facing the same charges as for possession of an illegal weapon.

One-handed openers with a locking blade (except Balisongs and OTFs) can be owned/collected but not carried in public.

Automatics are a special case. Those show some blade spine (at least all I know - there may be some that don't, but it does not matter really) are illegal as soon as their blade length is 8,5cm or longer - because automatics in fact are considered "fast deployers" and leave other people next to no time to identify them when drawn from a pocket. An automatic knife that has a blade <8,5cm is equally fast, but because of its size considered as no attack weapon.

I know this because I had a phone call at length with a legal expert from a German authority when I tried to exploit ways to import an Autonomy that was shortened to comply with German laws. I cannot guarantee this, it's just what I was told. Haven't yet had time to type it all down for you. Although this all is true just for Germany, it might be the background for other countries/states etc.
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
.
Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
Loki.88
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Location: Absurdistan

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#2

Post by Loki.88 »

Thx for the information
User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 7325
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#3

Post by ZrowsN1s »

Thats interesting. I don't know that I agree with the idea that autos are more easily concealed. But there are laws in California against disguised knives. Cant have a knife that looks like something else.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL :bug-red

"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
bearrowland
Member
Posts: 3545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:59 pm
Location: Julian Pennsylvania USA Earth

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#4

Post by bearrowland »

Someone, somewhere, actually had to have dealt with a situation involving a disguised knife to have enacted that law. I'd like to hear that one sometime. It's crazy some of the things on the books.
Barry

Bonne Journey!

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword

Do what you can, where you are, with what you have! Theodore Roosevelt

MNOSD member 0032
User avatar
Senfkarte
Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:06 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#5

Post by Senfkarte »

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
User avatar
Josh Crutchley
Member
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:44 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#6

Post by Josh Crutchley »

bearrowland wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:39 am
Someone, somewhere, actually had to have dealt with a situation involving a disguised knife to have enacted that law. I'd like to hear that one sometime. It's crazy some of the things on the books.
The only knives like that I know of are the cheapo gas station one that look like a key or even a shotgun shell. I love thinking about how some of the goofy laws came to be like in Atlanta your not allowed to tie your giraffe to a telephone pole. I can just picture that poor giraffe getting electrocuted. Hopefully it survived but ya never know. :(
yablanowitz
Member
Posts: 6881
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:16 pm
Location: Liberal, Kansas

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#7

Post by yablanowitz »

bearrowland wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:39 am
Someone, somewhere, actually had to have dealt with a situation involving a disguised knife to have enacted that law. I'd like to hear that one sometime. It's crazy some of the things on the books.
They probably saw it in a movie, so it had to be real, right?
bearrowland
Member
Posts: 3545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:59 pm
Location: Julian Pennsylvania USA Earth

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#8

Post by bearrowland »

Exactly!
Barry

Bonne Journey!

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword

Do what you can, where you are, with what you have! Theodore Roosevelt

MNOSD member 0032
bearrowland
Member
Posts: 3545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:59 pm
Location: Julian Pennsylvania USA Earth

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#9

Post by bearrowland »

I agree Josh.
Joshcrutchley1 wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 4:28 pm
bearrowland wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:39 am
Someone, somewhere, actually had to have dealt with a situation involving a disguised knife to have enacted that law. I'd like to hear that one sometime. It's crazy some of the things on the books.
The only knives like that I know of are the cheapo gas station one that look like a key or even a shotgun shell. I love thinking about how some of the goofy laws came to be like in Atlanta your not allowed to tie your giraffe to a telephone pole. I can just picture that poor giraffe getting electrocuted. Hopefully it survived but ya never know. :(
Barry

Bonne Journey!

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword

Do what you can, where you are, with what you have! Theodore Roosevelt

MNOSD member 0032
8legger
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 7:49 am

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#10

Post by 8legger »

Knife laws, by and large, usually don't make any logical sense. As with most things of this nature, someone's emotions are what made the law.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6655
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Why Balisongs and OTFs are forbidden in Germany (might be also the reasoning elsewhere)

#11

Post by TomAiello »

It seems like Germany could allow those knives and just require something like a cigarette pack warning label. In this case, it could be a legal requirement that the knife be labelled 'KNIFE' in large, bright letters, or something like that.
Post Reply