Advantages to Auto Knives

[MaxStatic]

I can offer my $0.02. In my job, I carry autos. In fact they were, until just recently, a required item of kit. I'm an active duty military helicopter pilot. Unlike fast movers, we have no "ohh ish handle" i.e. ejection seat and therefor go down with the aircraft. If we are still alive at the bottom, getting out is priority number one most of the time. Granted our seat belts are quick release design but I've had them bind on my several times. For this, I carry an auto knife and a fix blade on my vest.

The biggest disadvantage I see for autos is it usually takes two hands to close. I can do mine with one but it takes practice. This is a moot point though because if the knife comes out, chances are I don't need to put it back in a hurry. Worst case is I'm cutting and running. If I have to ditch the knife, so be it.

Things that the auto give me that a manual does not in this situation is minimal effort required for deployment. There is a very good chance that if I go down I will sustain some sort of back injury. It's the nature of the beast. I would rather have a button to push than a knife to flick or open by other means. I also do not carry my knife with the safety on. The design of the knife I carry does not concern me carrying it this way.

I don't discount the fact they are fun to play with but for me, in my line of work, I look at them as a incredibly valuable tool.

[RyanA]

One advantage is that a plunge lock side opener is actually a very safe and reliable knife design. With some manual knives there are complaints about weak detent and knives opening in the pocket. With a plunge lock side opener, due to the design, the blade cannot open or close unless the button is fully depressed (or the knife is severely abused). With a proper clip (one that places the button facing the thigh) it is extremely unlikely that a plunge lock auto will ever open unintentionally in one's pocket. A safety is not really necessary.

[ToneGrail]

Here's my 2 cents:

To deploy a non-stiletto type auto, it takes 3 steps in order to be sure that it won't close on your fingers:

1) disable the safety
2) push the button
3) enable the safety (to prevent the button from being accidentally pushed)

Seems like a lot of steps to me. With an assisted, all you do it flip the flipper or thumb stud and you're ready to go. That's one step as opposed to three. The locking mechanism is usually a liner, axis lock, or some other mechanism that can't be accidentally pressed (like a button) while the knife is open.

I personally prefer my Endura Wave 4. It's way faster than any auto or assisted, has no complicated moving parts and I can deploy it manually via the thumb hole just as fast as an auto or AO knife if I choose not to use the wave feature.

...and that's not even considering the extra moving parts in an auto.

The only exception to this rule are the Benchmade Auto Axis knives. On those, the release mechanism isn't a button, but the Axis lock itself.

[RyanA]

That is a somewhat fallacious statement. Using the safety is not required. Many autos don't even have them.
And by that reasoning, you'd need a safety on every kind of folder to prevent from accidentally hitting the release mechanism (most are variations of buttons or levers, designed to be depressed, like a button). The placement of the button on a knife like the citadel or similar design makes it very unlikely that it will be pushed while in use. Probably less likely than accidentally depressing a liner lock. The safety is really only for peace of mind.

To be sure, a plunge lock auto has one more major moving part than an endura 4, the coil spring.

Also because of the U spring design, an axis knife (auto or otherwise) is probably less reliable than an AO.

[2cha]

I can't speak to the history other than to say there are as many historical truths as there are writers and readers. I can definitely say that I'm ok with auto knives being illegal. My belief is based on what I've observed in myself and other young males. I just don't want young males to be able to easily and cheaply purchase cheap concealable weapons that are toylike. I had a pile of switchblades that my parents brought home from european trips. Carrying one of those puppies felt a lot different than carrying a Buck 110. In hind sight, the "felt a lot different" was not a good or neutral "felt a little different," but a "felt a little different" that was not good for anyone. I'm also perfectly happy that "brass" knuckles are illegal for the same reason. Sure, one can still get autos, butterfly knives and brass knuckles, but they're not generally for sale in street stalls for $5.00--just waiting to catch the eyes and wallets of some hormone ridden jackass (like I was). In all due respect, a bat or a weighted chain is not particularly concealable and both are susceptible to uses other than physical harm (though I do have a yard sale bat in my trunk).

A collectible and curio exception would be nice--would likely keep price point high enough to prevent the demographic I worry about and who commit most violent acts--males under 25--from commonly carrying them.

I don't like either autos or assisted openers for use. For toys or collecting, different story. In my limited experience they require more care and maintenance to ensure smooth opening. They may make sense for some like our pilot friend above or for LEOs with dedicated knife pockets or pouches. For the .5 second saved, I'd rather carry a knife that will open whether or not it is clogged with pocket lint.

[RyanA]

Is it safe to assume that most posts speaking of litmited experince actually mean no experience? If one understands the mechanical layout of an auto (assuming a quality design) then they also undersand that there is really no chance of debris entering any areas that would impede the knife's function. A good auto is no less reliable than a manual knife, and in some cases may actually be more reliable.

[2cha]

Is it safe to assume that most posts speaking of litmited experince actually mean no experience? If one understands the mechanical layout of an auto (assuming a quality design) then they also undersand that there is really no chance of debris entering any areas that would impede the knife's function. A good auto is no less reliable than a manual knife, and in some cases may actually be more reliable.

I used and carried this BM daily for two years when I lived in AZ. I used it for hard. I did construction/renovations. My experience is limited b/c I did not carry it in a sheath but in my lint and trash filled pockets. I carried it to use, not as a back-up or emergency deployment tool--perfectly legitimate uses. So, in my limited experience, the knife is susceptible to binding do to lint that prevents full deployment. Owning my limited experience was just straight up honesty.

[RyanA]

What part of the knife bound up: safety, lock or action?

As far as opinions go,
I do not personally consider a Benchmade to be a quality knife.

[2cha]

This was 14 years ago, long before I became interested in spyderco--if I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a manual spydie. That being said, I think BM makes a good product--I have that auto and a nak-lok that I don't carry and a mini grip that I do. I think that spyderco makes a better product for my purposes. I haven't tried any of the BM gold class and don't plan on it.

The knife would open about 1/3 quickly and then slowly continue to varying point. To cure the problem I'd blow it out with air compressor and then spray with WD. I haven't even used it to open mail in over a decade.

[Blerv]

I know this thread is getting old but here are a few things possibly not taken into consideration:

1.) Under duress it's easier to push a button than manipulate a thumb stud or hole. More importantly, it's consistent and cant be fumbled. eg: gunfire in the background or someone actually trying to kill you...not flipping infront of the mirror like a Youtube reviewer.

2.) Deploying a thumb hole/stud requires opening the grip more on the handle. In some cases like Microtech a double-edged blade shoots straight forward and your grip doesn't even need to change. Sweaty palms, fear, etc increases chance to drop the knife or at least slows the speed getting back into a proper grip.

I've sure never been in a life or death situation but think pushing a button and popping back into grip would be less risky. It would also be that much more terrifying to anyone around you. The best knife fight is the one you never have to fight.

Yes but 99% is probably cool factor. It's the main reason fancy gyms and dog purses exist.
Just random thoughts on a bored Monday night :) . They might be BS as they are purely speculative.

[jzmtl]

Ok, that's valid to some extent, but it presumes that you'd be willing to carry one without the safety engaged. With numb hands and the mental state which normally accompanies them, I'd think the chances of "premature discharge" would at least as high as those of being able to deploy it intentionally.

The two original "target audiences" for automatics in the late 1800's were amputees, of which there were a sizable number prior to weapons technology advancing at a faster pace than medical science, and "the fair sex", to protect their fingernails when sewing, sharpening a pencil, or making/repairing a quill pen. Yes, incredible as it sounds, genteel schoolgirls once carried these evil implements into the classroom. :eek: :D

For the record, the "connection" between automatics and gang violence in New York City and elsewhere was almost pure fiction created by yellow journalists in order to sell papers. Baseball bats and lengths of chain (sometimes with a padlock on the end), and iron pipe just didn't make great villains, since they're darn hard to "do something about".

It's possible, I've never seen an auto so I don't know how easy it is to accidentally deploy.

Very interesting history on auto too, never knew that.

[RyanA]

It's possible, I've never seen an auto so I don't know how easy it is to accidentally deploy.

Very interesting history on auto too, never knew that.

Typically the buttons are recessed and have a fair amount of travel. Accidental deployment is somewhat unlikely.

[TrojanDonkey]

For a fast "bad *** knife" I would go with a fixed blade if legal.If not -Spyderco does make a few waved knives.I only have ghetto waves-need to check out the real deal.So many Spyderco knives are on my list-just need extra $$ haha.

[Buffalohump]

I personally feel that if the laws weren't so irrational with regards to autos in the USA and elsewhere, they might well outsell regular knives. A good quality side opening auto can do everything a regular knife can, but quicker and easier. If you look at the famous Spyder hole, this was put in place to make the blade easier and quicker to open one handed. Well, there aint nothing quicker and easier than pushing a button. Granted an auto is not designed to be closed one handed, like many Spydies can be (liner locks and back locks especially) but when it comes to fast one hand opening, autos rule supreme.

[The Deacon]

I personally feel that if the laws weren't so irrational with regards to autos in the USA and elsewhere, they might well outsell regular knives. A good quality side opening auto can do everything a regular knife can, but quicker and easier. If you look at the famous Spyder hole, this was put in place to make the blade easier and quicker to open one handed. Well, there aint nothing quicker and easier than pushing a button. Granted an auto is not designed to be closed one handed, like many Spydies can be (liner locks and back locks especially) but when it comes to fast one hand opening, autos rule supreme.

I guess that would depend on whether the average user felt a marginal increase in deployment speed gained by carrying an auto with the safety off was worth the added complexity, risk of injury from accidental discharge, shorter life cycle, and higher price. Engage the safety and any claims of faster deployment go right out the window. Even without the safety on, I'd question whether one would beat an Emerson or an Spyderco with an Emerson opener.

Frankly, I think they would probably kill off AO's. Why settle for a half-assed auto wannabe if you can legally own a real one. Don't see them gaining much market share beyond that. I do, however, wish we'd be given the chance to find out. :)

[ChrisR]

Yeah, I love AOs with a 'flipper', like the Kershaws, but I'd never pocket one without the safety on - been there, done that, seen the knife come open when caught on something ... not worth the risk. A nice Spyderco folder with a smooth action is plenty easy and fast enough for me ... I am not into SD and any job I need a knife for can wait 5 seconds. The Emerson wave seems the ideal method if you're into that kind of speed-drawing but I can live without one :)

Hey ... just thought ... what about a waved FRN SLIPIT? :D

[Buffalohump]

The difference is that 'waving' a knife open is very hard on the locking mechanism whereas autos are designed to be opened that way. Waving is also not foolproof. It works better on some pants than others.

[The Deacon]

The difference is that 'waving' a knife open is very hard on the locking mechanism whereas autos are designed to be opened that way.

Sorry, but I find that incredibly hard to believe. First because it implies that two companies which make both autos and waved openers consistently put better engineering into one than the other. Second because I do not see waved opening of a Spyderco to be any more harsh than "Spydie drop" or thumb flick opening while every modern auto I've ever handled, and even a few of the "old school" Italian jobs, would literally jump out of your hand if not gripped securely when fired. That simply has to take its toll over time.

Autos are fun. Humans seem to have a soft spot for things that jump out at them. A jack-in-the-box will bring smiles to a one year old, and there's still a market for those spring loaded "worm in a can" gags. I will even concede that there may be a few very limited applications where an auto is the best possible choice, or at least an equally good choice. But, while I'm sure there would be an initial rush to buy them if they were legalized, to suggest they'd outsell non assisted knives for more than those first few months is something I just can't buy.

[ChrisR]

Yes, I've always maintained that I just can't believe that they would be a problem if they were legalized - they are mainly a novelty piece and, even with semi-autos being legal to own in a lot of places, they seem to be statistically insignificant to knife crime. When the police arrest thugs over here they're almost always carrying fixed-blade kitchen knives because they're cheap and look scary.

[The Deacon]

I agree fully Chris. Heck, even if a few did wind up being used by the "bad guys", so what. Not as if they'd be singing in the church choir or helping out at an animal shelter if it weren't for those **** evil flick knives. Nor is it a question of a kitchen knife being less dangerous than an auto in the hands of someone looking to do harm.

Not to mention that all the laws do, at least over here, is to keep them out of the hands of the most law abiding. I'd bet if it weren't for sales that are at least technically illegal, to otherwise law abiding citizens, most companies would have stopped making automatics years ago.