Knife Laws are weird to me.

If your topic has nothing to do with Spyderco, you can post it here.
akapennypincher
Member
Posts: 549
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:07 am

Knife Laws are weird to me.

#1

Post by akapennypincher »

I sort of get a chill when someone mentions knife laws. Nice living in common sense State.
User avatar
Naperville
Member
Posts: 4360
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#2

Post by Naperville »

Probably 10,000 laws on the books in the 50 states for all sorts of 2nd Amendment weapons, and they are all infringing on the rights of US Citizens according to the US Constitution.

You could look at all of those laws and say that the folks that swore to uphold the US Constitution lied when they took their oath of office.
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
T2T: https://tunnel2towers.org; Special Operations Wounded Warriors: https://sowwcharity.com/
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#3

Post by Wartstein »

Naperville wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:29 pm
Probably 10,000 laws on the books in the 50 states for all sorts of 2nd Amendment weapons, and they are all infringing on the rights of US Citizens according to the US Constitution.

You could look at all of those laws and say that the folks that swore to uphold the US Constitution lied when they took their oath of office.

I am European and many countries here (luckily not mine though) have crazily restrictive knife laws.

But, yes, as "weird" as this is in Europe already, in the US such laws are even "weirder", since you guys actually even have a a clear, constitutional right to carry weapons (and the laws of course apply to knives as weapons, even if most people primarily carry them as tools).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#4

Post by Wartstein »

And I see all the time how completely useless knife laws are anyway in preventing knife crimes:

- I live in Austria, Europe: Basically no restricting laws, I can carry whatever I want.
- Just like one mile north to me Germany begins, and when I cross the border suddenly even a Ladybug would be illegal (Germanies laws forbid any folder that has a locking blade AND can be opened one handed, no matter how tiny it might be. So it has to be EITHER one handed opening OR locking, not both... )
- Now Germany and Austria are VERY similar in culture, history and so on, we even talk the same language.
- NO difference in the knife crime rate though, despite one (Germany) has very restrictive laws, and Austria not at all... and knife crimes are not really common anyway in both countries, and if at all, mostly kitchen knives and the like are involved, not folders (and probably never, ever a Ladybug... ;) )
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#5

Post by Wartstein »

Plus, the European country that probably is known for an a bit higher knife crime rate is the UK... so their very restrictive laws (no locking folders at all, as far as I know) don´t help at all, but are just hurting people who want to openly carry and enjoy cool folders...

Weird indeed...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
bearfacedkiller
Member
Posts: 11411
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:22 pm
Location: hiding in the woods...

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#6

Post by bearfacedkiller »

In the US it seems as though most people think the 2nd amendment is just talking about guns. I think it applies to everything and not just weapons. It should include all other gear needed like knives, body armor, night vision and communication equipment.

It is so focused on firearms that in some places the gun laws are more lenient than the knife laws. Especially now that many states are passing constitutional carry with preemption. I can open carry a gun and a large knife but brass knuckles are illegal. That doesn’t make sense.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
aicolainen
Member
Posts: 1787
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:08 am
Location: Norway

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#7

Post by aicolainen »

Here in Norway we have only one city with any notable knife crime, unfortunately this is also our capital. This is where our politicians live and work, and what happens here has an outsized influence on our politics and legal system.
Our knife laws as they’re written in the books is restrictive and intrusive way beyond common sense, but luckily the enforcement of them are more common sense and quite relaxed most places.
So despite stringent laws I carry a knife pretty much all the time unless I’m going out for beers or some other social event where a knife would be more out of place than useful. To me this feels like a natural and responsible limitation of my “right” to carry such a tool. And while not quite in line with the law as it’s written, it’s very much in line with the intention of the law.
aicolainen
Member
Posts: 1787
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:08 am
Location: Norway

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#8

Post by aicolainen »

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:33 am
I am European and many countries here (luckily not mine though) have crazily restrictive knife laws.
I doubt it will come to it, but if I ever find myself forced to move to another country to enjoy an acceptable level of freedom and still enjoy access to the great outdoors, Austria is high on my list.

As I’ve mentioned many times our laws as written is a step too far in my opinion. It’s not a fair balance between safety, common sense and individual freedom.
Still I think the police and courts for the most part have been very reasonable in how the laws have been enforced. Unfortunately I think I’ve noticed a shift in attitude the last couple of years and there are now pretty clear signs of activism in our police system.
This is something I’ve feared for years would become reality as the older generations that grew up in an era where self reliance and taking responsibility for their own situation was more prevalent are replaced by ever more urbanized, removed from real life, cuddled generations.
aicolainen
Member
Posts: 1787
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:08 am
Location: Norway

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#9

Post by aicolainen »

I should add, I’m both a knife enthusiast and an active hunter and sports shooter. So as an owner and regular user of both knives and firearms, I notice a significant push to restrict legal use, activity and ownership of both.
I can only hope there are enough checks and balances in place to prevent inside activism from succeeding, but as it stands it feels like the wrong people in certain positions within the police system can have an outsized influence on legal frameworks and processes.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6655
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#10

Post by TomAiello »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:05 am
In the US it seems as though most people think the 2nd amendment is just talking about guns. I think it applies to everything and not just weapons. It should include all other gear needed like knives, body armor, night vision and communication equipment.
The 2nd Amendment was originally written by people who were familiar with and supportive of things like privately owned artillery and warships (https://www.history.com/news/american-p ... ivate-navy and https://www.statesman.com/story/news/po ... 113951468/). It's hard to imagine the drafters not thinking it would apply to _all_ man portable equipment of any kind, and likely _all_ military equipment, period.
Scandi Grind
Member
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:37 pm

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#11

Post by Scandi Grind »

Pretty much any restriction on the carry of common weapons or tools of any sort is a step toward tyranny as far as I can tell from the entire history of the world. I have never seen evidence that restricting self defense makes anyone safer, but I have seen evidence to the contrary. Quite frankly, many modern laws have begun to favor protecting criminals from law abiding citizens rather than the other way around. It can be quite freighting to think about. I am fortunate to live in a place that has reasonable laws, but I moved from California which is now a place I don't even want to ever have to visit at this point, which saddens me greatly.

If you have a voice, use it, because once we don't have weapons, there is no reason for them to allow us a voice.
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man."

-- Old Norse proverb
User avatar
Naperville
Member
Posts: 4360
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#12

Post by Naperville »

Scandi Grind wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:22 pm
Pretty much any restriction on the carry of common weapons or tools of any sort is a step toward tyranny as far as I can tell from the entire history of the world. I have never seen evidence that restricting self defense makes anyone safer, but I have seen evidence to the contrary. Quite frankly, many modern laws have begun to favor protecting criminals from law abiding citizens rather than the other way around. It can be quite freighting to think about. I am fortunate to live in a place that has reasonable laws, but I moved from California which is now a place I don't even want to ever have to visit at this point, which saddens me greatly.

If you have a voice, use it, because once we don't have weapons, there is no reason for them to allow us a voice.
[+1]
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
T2T: https://tunnel2towers.org; Special Operations Wounded Warriors: https://sowwcharity.com/
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#13

Post by Wartstein »

aicolainen wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:42 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:33 am
I am European and many countries here (luckily not mine though) have crazily restrictive knife laws.
I doubt it will come to it, but if I ever find myself forced to move to another country to enjoy an acceptable level of freedom and still enjoy access to the great outdoors, Austria is high on my list.

As I’ve mentioned many times our laws as written is a step too far in my opinion. It’s not a fair balance between safety, common sense and individual freedom.
......

Well, I think that Austria (sadly) actually is a rather burocratic country with too many restricting laws (but on the other hand very good health care and social security).

Just when it comes to knife laws things are perfect here! As far as I know there aren`t any restrictions to what one may carry, except for people with a known violent-with-weapons-crime record who actually have a weapons prohibition (often just temporarily) put on them by a court.

Still: The funny thing is almost no one carries a knife in Austria, and many people give me weird looks when they realize that I do... (again, despite it is completely legally ok, and living in a very safe place I really carry my folders only as tools (though of course I would most likely try to use them as weapons in a last ditch situation)).

And as said: When crossing the near by border to Germany (strict laws) it really feels weird, wrong, unfair and completely not understandable to me that suddenly the innocent Manix LW in my pocket technically is a breaking of the law... (I have to admit: I don´t really care about Germanies knife laws when crossing the border - at max I might unclip and bury my folder deeper (and completely conceiled) in my pocket in public, crowded places, but normally I don´t even do this. I am pretty sure cops in Germany are not at all used to look for EDC folders in peoples pockets, cause in Germany too almost no one carries one anyway).

/ Anyway, and as said in another thread already: Should you choose to come and visit Austria one day, it would be an honor to show you around in our indeed great outdoors and then have a beer someplace with our Spydies of the day openly and proudly in our pockets ;)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
aicolainen
Member
Posts: 1787
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:08 am
Location: Norway

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#14

Post by aicolainen »

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:14 am

/ Anyway, and as said in another thread already: Should you choose to come and visit Austria one day, it would be an honor to show you around in our indeed great outdoors and then have a beer someplace with our Spydies of the day openly and proudly in our pockets ;)
That would be truly awsome, Gernot!
And I’ll of course return that offer, should you one day happen to find yourself in Norway.
We might have to do the beer and folders in pocket separately though ;)
User avatar
ChrisinHove
Member
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:12 am
Location: 27.2046° N, 77.4977° E

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#15

Post by ChrisinHove »

It’s jarring not being able to carry whatever pocketknife you like, whenever you like legally, but you do get used to it.

The U.K. laws are political kneejerks to violent crime invariably committed with kitchen knives. The inner city yoof gangs are already very ready and willing to participate in that, but also adding legal knife carry to the potent combination of youthful testosterone and astonishing, normalised levels of weekend alcohol & substance abuse - and casual violence- would be terrifying!

Some cultures are habitually, extremely law-abiding at an individual level, but honestly, we’re not, and if you look OK then the chances of getting into trouble for carrying a pocketknife tool are slim to nil, certainly outside of large towns and cities.

Unfortunately, however, some zealous police forces, with one eye on the press, do have the occasional “crackdown” involving searches on public transport, resulting in them parading a “shocking catalogue of lethal weapons” - often including some poor sod’s Leatherman with a locking blade over 3”.
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#16

Post by ladybug93 »

laws serve one purpose: to hold criminals accountable. you could argue that they are meant to prevent crime, but that is false. the fear of accountability can be preventative, but the law can't stop a person from breaking it. furthermore, the mindset that laws prevent crime is how we get laws that are meant only to prevent people from breaking other laws.
it is already illegal to kill, stab, or even threaten someone with a knife. this is universally true. these laws exist to hold criminals accountable, promoting public safety. when you add blade restrictions or carry restrictions in hopes to prevent people from breaking the laws that already exist, the only real effect is an assault on freedom. those laws only exist to limit freedom because they accomplish absolutely nothing when it comes to stoping criminals from being criminals. in fact, they make criminals out of people that are doing nothing to cause harm to anyone.

laws don't prevent crime. laws hold criminals accountable for doing harm to others. if there is a law that exists solely to prevent you from breaking another law, it's only purpose is to limit your freedom.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
WyoJon
Member
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:03 am

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#17

Post by WyoJon »

Here in wyoming there are no laws regulating style or size of knives for owning or carrying. Id suggest leaving the states run by over bearing dictators.
User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 15041
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#18

Post by Wartstein »

ladybug93 wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:16 am
laws serve one purpose: to hold criminals accountable....

Bravo, Ladybug! :clinking-mugs

This is a truly good post and are wise words imo.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
User avatar
ladybug93
Member
Posts: 8014
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#19

Post by ladybug93 »

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:51 am
ladybug93 wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:16 am
laws serve one purpose: to hold criminals accountable....

Bravo, Ladybug! :clinking-mugs

This is a truly good post and are wise words imo.
thanks, wartstein. it's something i've given way more thought to than i'd like. freedom is important and i hate to see it surrendered under the pretense of false security by people unwilling to expend the effort of thought.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
Scandi Grind
Member
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:37 pm

Re: Knife Laws are weird to me.

#20

Post by Scandi Grind »

Indeed, Ladybug! Very well said. That well sums up the nature and flaws of many modern laws restricting our freedoms.
"A knifeless man is a lifeless man."

-- Old Norse proverb
Post Reply