Ancestry?

[James Y]

When I visited a Colonial-era house in Boston with an east coast tour group back in 1979, everything inside looked tiny. It looked like the furniture, pots and pans, etc., were made for children. The tour guide said that the people back then were really small compared to today, because of the relative lack of nutrition.

Jim

[MacLaren]

Tell ya what fellas, it's just amazing how big and strong people are becoming these days.
I mean, we've always had people that are big, fast & strong but, now a days there's just so, so, many more. Of course, our population has grown a lot since the 80's & 90's (I think) ....at any rate, it's like man oh man....

If you see historic ships, buildings, armour, coffins etc that is really noticeable. Our ancestors were much smaller than us. I have read that well nourished Aussie & US soldiers looked almost like giants when they came to the industrialised U.K. even in WW1.

I have also read that ancient populations were so small, that virtually everyone in the western world could trace their ancestry back to the 9th Century emperor Charlemagne 1 somehow, also that home dna tests are wildly inaccurate: certainly I have known two unrelated elderly gents get precisely the same results.

On the other hand, in the U.K. where still some people are born, live and die in the same area as their forbears, some people I see I can geographically place by their facial features (or maybe they are related to people I know from there, if that isn’t the same thing).

I found A Brief History of everyone that ever lived, by Adam Rutherford a very interesting and accessible book. I also recall my grandfather’s Popular Scientist magazines from the 1930’s reporting eugenics as fact, and we all know where that led.

Yes. & to both your and James Y's post, I remember taking a tour of Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia. Ya know, besides the size of things, I just couldn't get over the clothes they wore in that absolutely brutal summer heat!
Can yall imagine back in the day, in the fields- the heat, no AC, no ice even I think.....it amazes me more I reckon because I've always lived in the Mountains and heat isn't a big issue up here. I'm always amazed at just how hot it gets and stays off the mountain....

[Evil D]

Record keeping, especially in America and especially with anyone who wasn't very wealthy is just very lacking. Most family names can be traced back to Ellis Island if they came over after that was established but the people coming off the boats could make their names whatever they felt like making them so that becomes a road block unless they're a family that for whatever reason kept good records.

Me personally, I know the names of those great grandparents who came over, but I don't even know who my great grandparents were, and that's a prime example of how this information is lost to the ages.

[James Y]

I don’t know anything at all about any of my great-grandparents.

On my mom’s side, my grandpa came from Japan, and was processed at Angel Island in San Francisco in the early 1900s. We know more about that side of the family than my dad’s side, as there are known cousins of ours still living in Matsuyama on Shikoku Island. Centuries past, there were samurai and nobles in our family on that side. My mom, my aunt, and some cousins visited Matsuyama and saw some of the old family scrolls/records.

My grandpa on my dad’s side is less known. From what we were told, he was orphaned young and had to move in with relatives (either an uncle’s or aunt’s family), as was the custom. But they didn’t want him and he was badly abused by them, because he was another mouth to feed. So at age 17, he fled Japan (Kumamoto) by stowing away on a ship that ended up in Vancouver, or whatever was going to become Vancouver, in the late 1880s. There he jumped ship, and through hardships (and some miracle), he somehow made his way down to CA. I wish I had been more curious and asked my dad more, but I was young and only had a passing interest when he told me. Now that opportunity is gone forever. The only other thing I know about my grandpa as a person was that he was physically very large and strong for that time period, and he had a bad temper and was physically violent, especially when he drank. That was the overriding description of him from my dad, his 5 brothers, and my oldest cousin (who was as old as my dad) on that side of the family. Which, considering his history and all he had been through, is probably no surprise. My dad was the youngest of 8 kids (6 brothers and 2 sisters), and he said that all the boys felt his wrath.

My paternal grandpa never became a citizen, because he hadn’t immigrated here legally. He was in San Francisco when the 1906 earthquake hit. Before that, the immigration authorities had been hassling him for some time, and he always put them off with excuses. After the quake, he did what many others apparently did; he said that his immigration papers had been destroyed in the fires that resulted from the earthquake. I know zero about the background of my grandma on that side, or how my grandpa even met her. I never met him; he passed away around 12 years before I was born.

Jim

[MacLaren]

Record keeping, especially in America and especially with anyone who wasn't very wealthy is just very lacking. Most family names can be traced back to Ellis Island if they came over after that was established but the people coming off the boats could make their names whatever they felt like making them so that becomes a road block unless they're a family that for whatever reason kept good records.

Me personally, I know the names of those great grandparents who came over, but I don't even know who my great grandparents were, and that's a prime example of how this information is lost to the ages.

That's a helluva good point!!

[Evil D]

Record keeping, especially in America and especially with anyone who wasn't very wealthy is just very lacking. Most family names can be traced back to Ellis Island if they came over after that was established but the people coming off the boats could make their names whatever they felt like making them so that becomes a road block unless they're a family that for whatever reason kept good records.

Me personally, I know the names of those great grandparents who came over, but I don't even know who my great grandparents were, and that's a prime example of how this information is lost to the ages.

That's a helluva good point!!

Yeah I worded that kinda funny. I know the names of the grandparents that we've traced clear back to the 1700s that came through Ellis Island, but my nearest great grandparents, my parent's grandparents, I don't know. Even my own immediate family sucks at sharing information lol. At least it's probably easy to find locally with a little research.

[TomAiello]

The mormon church family history centers actually have a ton of information they've gathered over the years. We tracked down a bunch of our ancestors that way.

[Doc Dan]

When my grandmother died and we were all at the funeral, my aunt (by marriage) left and went to the house and burned all of the letters and records of family members going back generations and all of the contacts with relatives in the UK was lost.

[James Y]

When my grandmother died and we were all at the funeral, my aunt (by marriage) left and went to the house and burned all of the letters and records of family members going back generations and all of the contacts with relatives in the UK was lost.

Why the heck did she do that, Doc?

Jim

[JD Spydo]

Well for what it's worth both my parents were of Welsh descent. But I truly don't see myself any different than anyone else that I know or that I'm currently friends with. And most of my friends that I've known for years literally take in all colors of the rainbow and a multitude of ethnicities. I've made attempts at finding out more about where my great-grandparents originally came from in Wales. But apparently our family has been here in the USA since about 1830 or thereabouts from what one of my aunts told me>> so with that said I really feel very little if any connection with the old country.

I feel extremely fortunate to live in the USA. And I really doubt if my family ethnicity has much to do with who I am at this time. Just like any other group of people who migrated to the USA it was to have a much better life when it's all said and done. Even with all the problems this country has developed at this time there still isn't any other place on the globe that I would care to live at.

I would like to visit Wales at some point before I depart this planet. But at this stage of the game I doubt if I would have much of any connection to the old country at this point. I can see where "Ancestry" is really important to several other groups of people here in the states but I can honestly say that it really doesn't affect me one way or the other.

[Doc Dan]

When my grandmother died and we were all at the funeral, my aunt (by marriage) left and went to the house and burned all of the letters and records of family members going back generations and all of the contacts with relatives in the UK was lost.

Why the heck did she do that, Doc?

Jim

The whole family was no good. As poor as my grandparent were, dirt poor, that woman had it in her head there was treasure in that old shingle sided house. I think she burned everything to keep anyone from finding clues before she did.

[James Y]

Well for what it's worth both my parents were of Welsh descent. But I truly don't see myself any different than anyone else that I know or that I'm currently friends with. And most of my friends that I've known for years literally take in all colors of the rainbow and a multitude of ethnicities. I've made attempts at finding out more about where my great-grandparents originally came from in Wales. But apparently our family has been here in the USA since about 1830 or thereabouts from what one of my aunts told me>> so with that said I really feel very little if any connection with the old country.

I feel extremely fortunate to live in the USA. And I really doubt if my family ethnicity has much to do with who I am at this time. Just like any other group of people who migrated to the USA it was to have a much better life when it's all said and done. Even with all the problems this country has developed at this time there still isn't any other place on the globe that I would care to live at.

I would like to visit Wales at some point before I depart this planet. But at this stage of the game I doubt if I would have much of any connection to the old country at this point. I can see where "Ancestry" is really important to several other groups of people here in the states but I can honestly say that it really doesn't affect me one way or the other.

Joe,

I'm sure most people who have been in the US, or any country for generations, will identify with being of that country.

Which is why it's weird, and at least a little condescending, when many Americans assume that I should have some cultural ties to, or relate to, Japan. I have zero. I'm proud of my ancestry, but it has little to no bearing on the person I am, other than how others may PERCEIVE me from my physical appearance. My paternal grandpa came here in the late 1880s. My maternal grandpa came in the early 1900s. Longer ago than many Euro-Americans' families have been here.

I also didn't grow up in a 'Japanese-American community.' After WW2, when the internment camps were closed, most of the Japanese-Americans had to start over from scratch, so they tended to spread out to wherever they could find someplace people were willing to sell or rent to them. My mom's dad had owned a business and apartment above it that neighbors had kept and protected for them to come back to. Most weren't so lucky. So although there was 'Little Tokyo' in L.A., or Japan Town in San Francisco, most didn't move to those types of places, and hadn't before the war; so the situation was different from Chinese in Chinatowns, Koreans in Koreatown, Vietnamese in Little Saigon, etc., who grew up in tight-knit communities, immersed in the cultures they, or their parents (or grandparents) originated from.

Growing up, I only knew two other Japanese-American families that weren't relatives, and they each lived about a mile away on either side of us. My mom was friends with their moms. But I didn't relate to the kids much in terms of personality, interests, etc., so for the most part, I never wanted to hang out with any of them. Not because they were Japanese-American or because I felt I was better than them; we were all just DIFFERENT, like any other kids you didn't relate to or hang out with as a kid.

OTOH, I also spent 8 years of my life living in another country (Taiwan) on my own. Of course, I would rather live the rest of my life here. But I enjoyed my time there, met and knew many wonderful people, and have no regrets about having spent 8 years living away from here. Many Americans who have never actually lived or even been abroad outiside of military service, or briefly as tourists, assume that life outside of America is a hellhole, which isn't necessarily true.

Jim

[James Y]

When my grandmother died and we were all at the funeral, my aunt (by marriage) left and went to the house and burned all of the letters and records of family members going back generations and all of the contacts with relatives in the UK was lost.

Why the heck did she do that, Doc?

Jim

The whole family was no good. As poor as my grandparent were, dirt poor, that woman had it in her head there was treasure in that old shingle sided house. I think she burned everything to keep anyone from finding clues before she did.

I'm sorry to hear that. Sounds like a very selfish, evil woman.

Jim

[TomAiello]

Record keeping, especially in America and especially with anyone who wasn't very wealthy is just very lacking. Most family names can be traced back to Ellis Island if they came over after that was established but the people coming off the boats could make their names whatever they felt like making them so that becomes a road block unless they're a family that for whatever reason kept good records.

My Italian family had much better (local government) record keeping in Italy, and then Catholic Church (no government records) record keeping in California. My Filipino family basically had all records lost prior to the US (because they were destroyed in the battle of Manila). Several years ago I actually hired lawyers to get those records reconstituted and re-inserted into the official government records (in the Phillipines). There are a lot of external factors (like WWII) but some countries (like Italy) have excellent online records available, where you can track your family back several hundred years (we got back to the 1700s).

The Ellis Island records are also pretty good--I was able to find my great grandparents (and my great-great grandparents on one side) on ship manifests on the Ellis Island website.

[TomAiello]

Which is why it's weird, and at least a little condescending, when many Americans assume that I should have some cultural ties to, or relate to, Japan. I have zero.

My mom is like that. I suggested that we could drive down to the consulate in LA and reclaim her Filipino citizenship, and she is dead set against it. She identifies _very_ strongly as an American.

[ChrisinHove]

I tinkered with genealogy research a few years ago, researching a great uncle killed in WW1. It felt particularly galling to find that in addition to losing his life in 1917, many of the records about him were destroyed in 1940. The elaborate family myth about his demise was also proven untrue by regimental records, but I suspect many tall tales were told to hide the grisly truth.

Going back further, research got expensive and complicated very quickly, particularly when families often stayed in the same area, meaning having to unravel identical or similar names, and overseas / military service meant absences from records. All records aren’t/ weren’t necessarily online yet, either. It was a very engaging and enjoyable process, though.

[James Y]

Which is why it's weird, and at least a little condescending, when many Americans assume that I should have some cultural ties to, or relate to, Japan. I have zero.

My mom is like that. I suggested that we could drive down to the consulate in LA and reclaim her Filipino citizenship, and she is dead set against it. She identifies _very_ strongly as an American.

Thanks for sharing, Tom.

Both of my parents were born in CA, so my parents had zero ties to Japan as well.

One thing I've noticed about many of the younger generation of Asian-Americans whose parents immigrated here MUCH more recently, many are rigidly judgmental about Asian-Americans whose friends aren't also mostly Asian, judging them as 'sellouts' and trying to pass as white. Which is a new type of ignorance. If they ever bothered to study history, more specifically of the original first 3 generations of Japanese-Americans in this country, they might see the reason why a high percentage of us didn't hang out with many others of our ethnic background. At least where I was, there simply weren't that many.

And our family always had a 'different' family dynamic, anyway. We were free to pursue our own interests and passions. There was no 'Tiger Mom' or academic pressures put on us. Which is why I can't, and never could, relate to very many of the younger generations of Asian-Americans today, or the whole "Crazy Rich Asians" nonsense. But there are some who get it.

Jim

[TomAiello]

...particularly when families often stayed in the same area, meaning having to unravel identical or similar names...

The Sicilian naming convention was super helpful for us in tracking down our Italian ancestors. It made it pretty easy to find out if these were 'our' family (our last name is fairly common in Sicily and also in the town in California the family moved to, so there was some puzzling out to do). The 'name your son after your father' made it much easier to track down 'our people'.

The SICILIAN NAMING CONVENTION (SNC) is a practice that was employed by most Sicilian and Southern Italian families up until the early twentieth century, for selecting the given names of children. It was not a legally binding custom, but was so strong that it was thought to be so by many.

A man's first son was named after the man's father, that is, the boy's paternal grandfather;

the man's first daughter would be named after his mother, the girl's paternal grandmother;

the second son was named after the man's wife's father, that is, the boy's maternal grandfather; and

the second daughter would be named after the wife's mother, the girl's maternal grandmother.

My parents were already outside the rigid naming convention, but I'm still named after my grandfathers (my first name is my maternal grandfather, my middle name is my paternal grandfather--although in Sicily there were traditionally no middle names used).

[James Y]

I tinkered with genealogy research a few years ago, researching a great uncle killed in WW1. It felt particularly galling to find that in addition to losing his life in 1917, many of the records about him were destroyed in 1940. The elaborate family myth about his demise was also proven untrue by regimental records, but I suspect many tall tales were told to hide the grisly truth.

Going back further, research got expensive and complicated very quickly, particularly when families often stayed in the same area, meaning having to unravel identical or similar names, and overseas / military service meant absences from records. All records aren’t/ weren’t necessarily online yet, either. It was a very engaging and enjoyable process, though.

Thank you for sharing this, Chris.

Jim

[TomAiello]

Both of my parents were born in CA, so my parents had zero ties to Japan as well.

My mom and her brother were actually both born in Manila, and came to the USA as children (with their parents). My grandmother would go back and visit every year (right up until her death).