Ancestry?

If your topic has nothing to do with Spyderco, you can post it here.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6655
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Ancestry?l

#61

Post by TomAiello »

RustyIron wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:49 pm
...and they didn't have cool knives.
Not so sure about that. I inherited a Balisong that came to the USA with the family, and it's a pretty cool knife. :)
Last edited by TomAiello on Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ChrisinHove
Member
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:12 am
Location: 27.2046° N, 77.4977° E

Re: Ancestry?

#62

Post by ChrisinHove »

This thread and your family back stories are fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

For perspective, I grew up in the shadow of a prehistoric hill fort where it is a mathematical certainty that some of my distant forbears lived, my surname is Norman/French in origin, so probably arrived in 1066, and all discernible relatives on record originated less than 100 miles from where I was born!
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#63

Post by James Y »

ChrisinHove wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:28 am
This thread and your family back stories are fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

For perspective, I grew up in the shadow of a prehistoric hill fort where it is a mathematical certainty that some of my distant forbears lived, my surname is Norman/French in origin, so probably arrived in 1066, and all discernible relatives on record originated less than 100 miles from where I was born!

Thanks for sharing that, Chris!

Jim
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#64

Post by James Y »

Husband Does Ancestry DNA, Finds Out He's Related to Wife

I'm betting this is pretty common. More common in the past, when people didn't move around as much. But I'm sure it's still common today, just that most people never find out about it.

Strangely enough, I've seen husbands and wives who looked remarkably the same, even facially, which made me wonder. I know people say that couples who have been married a long time start to look alike (although I would question that), but I've seen it in some young married couples, too.

If I ever do end up getting married, there's a 0% chance that I'll be related to my wife in any way, because it's 100% that she won't be of Japanese ancestry.

https://youtu.be/W0xb5GpcGfk

Jim
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#65

Post by James Y »

The Fascinatingly Mysterious Origins of the Ainu

The Ainu are among the least-known groups in the world. This is a superficial but nicely-done video, especially regarding the DNA evidence.

I mentioned in an early post in this thread that my dad's side of the family did not match many of the physical characteristics people associate with Japanese. In the only two photos I ever saw of my paternal grandpa, he had a very close resemblance to Ainu or Jomon characteristics, except that grandpa was bigger and taller than the Ainu in the photos in the video appeared to be. He also came from southwestern Japan, the opposite end of the country from the island of Hokkaido in the north, where the Ainu are mostly located. That doesn't mean there weren't people of Ainu ancestry who lived in other parts of Japan. I suppose he could also have had Ryukyuan blood, which is also considered to have more Jomon characteristics than the Japanese majority. But my paternal grandpa would've been freakishly tall for a Ryukyuan (who are shorter by 'mainland' Japanese standards), especially back in that time period.

https://youtu.be/zFohbr7ALeQ

Jim
User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 14753
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Ancestry?

#66

Post by Doc Dan »

Ancestry.com

Arkansas's #1 dating site.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#67

Post by James Y »

Doc Dan wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:53 pm
Ancestry.com

Arkansas's #1 dating site.

😄

It took me about a second to get it!

Jim
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#68

Post by James Y »

"No! You Are Not Cherokee! History of the Biggest Myth in Genealogy!"

I remember a blonde-haired, blue-eyed kid back in grade school who self-identified as Cherokee Indian. As an adult, I've seen MANY people who claim to be primarily Cherokee Indian (and to a lesser extent, other tribes).

Now, whether they really are or not is none of my concern; but there are so many who claim Cherokee as their primary ancestry, when that clearly is not the case. It's one of those things that's always seemed really, really weird to me.

https://youtu.be/Tpdxu_g5rRU

Jim
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#69

Post by James Y »

While I honor all the people that I descended from, I know there are BIG differences between them and me. Culturally, mentality-wise, etc. Even physically. If I could travel back in time (or if they traveled forward in time) and I met them, I would seem like an alien from another planet to them.

For example, I'm descended from the warrior caste/Samurai on my mother's side. They were later involved in the government (mayor, etc.) of Matsuyama city on Shikoku Island. My cousins visited Japan and saw the historical family records/scrolls that confirmed this.

My dad's side of the family is descended from the farmer caste.

Many Westerners equate all people of Japanese ancestry as being descendants of Samurai warriors, but that simply is not the case.

That being said, even though I have Samurai ancestors, I do not consider myself a Samurai warrior. It's cool and all, but that's as far as it goes for me. It has nothing to do with who I am or what I do today, not even my martial arts training. If my Samurai ancestors had achievements, those were their achievements, not mine.

I've seen others whose ethnicities had warrior cultures identify as, for example, Viking warriors, African tribal warriors, Aztec warriors, warriors of various Native American tribes, etc. Being proud of one's ancestral background is a beautiful thing. But I would never call myself a warrior just because there were Samurai in my bloodline, because I've never fought in a war (at least not in this lifetime, depending on your beliefs). And if I had in this lifetime, it wouldn't have been as a Samurai, but as member of the US military.

Jim
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#70

Post by James Y »

Why do Some Mexicans Look Asian?

https://youtu.be/kcIC8E6i6iQ?si=eRsrhipWN1UcTRep

Funny thing is, I'm of 100% Japanese ancestry, but on more than one occasion, I've been mistaken for Mexican, by some white people, some black people, and even once by a Mexican wearing western clothing and a cowboy hat, who saw me, started waving his arms, and called out, "'Ey! Mexicano! Mexicano!"

🤣

A woman from Finland once mistook me for some type of Native American.

When I lived in Taiwan, a couple people mistook me for being Filipino or Thai.

A woman from Japan who was a former co-worker mistook me for a Brazilian, thinking I was half Japanese and half Portuguese, or some other group. She wasn't the only person who thought I was part southern European (Italian or Portuguese). Personally, I don't see how they came to that conclusion.

This type of appearance comes from my dad's side of the family, due to their obvious "Jomon" type characteristics (a higher amount than the average person of Japanese ancestry). My dad and uncles were often mistaken for American "Indians." Except for the body hair and thick facial hair. They also had naturally wavy hair. I don't have nearly as much of that "Jomon" appearance as they did, but I still have above-average. Most of the Jomon characteristics I have only started becoming noticeable in my adulthood.

Jim
User avatar
ChrisinHove
Member
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:12 am
Location: 27.2046° N, 77.4977° E

Re: Ancestry?

#71

Post by ChrisinHove »

I can honestly say I’ve never been mistaken to be Mexican (not that it would be a bad thing) - or anything but English for that matter!
My daughter, however, has beautiful auburn /red hair (we assume as a consequence of her late grandmother being (northern) Irish, and paternal great-grandfather having had “red-ish” hair, according to his WW1 military identity card), so is often thought to be Scottish or Irish.
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#72

Post by James Y »

ChrisinHove wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:10 pm
I can honestly say I’ve never been mistaken to be Mexican (not that it would be a bad thing) - or anything but English for that matter!
My daughter, however, has beautiful auburn /red hair (we assume as a consequence of her late grandmother being (northern) Irish, and paternal great-grandfather having had “red-ish” hair, according to his WW1 military identity card), so is often thought to be Scottish or Irish.

Thanks for sharing.

It's interesting how some physical characteristics can skip a generation or two (or maybe even more).

Jim
User avatar
Naperville
Member
Posts: 4360
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Ancestry?

#73

Post by Naperville »

I'm 1/4 Austrian, 3/4 Irish. (Think I have that right.)

A few of my female cousins and their children know how to Irish dance. My parents and a few of my aunts and uncles decades ago went to Ireland.

We are pretty much just plain old Americans here. :party-face

I'm almost 100%, 2nd generation American. My father's mother has family that may go back another generation or two in the USA.

It really does not matter. Give me a pizza and some US craft beer and I'm happy as can be. :smlling-eyes
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
T2T: https://tunnel2towers.org; Special Operations Wounded Warriors: https://sowwcharity.com/
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#74

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:26 pm
I'm 1/4 Austrian, 3/4 Irish. (Think I have that right.)

A few of my female cousins and their children know how to Irish dance. My parents and a few of my aunts and uncles decades ago went to Ireland.

We are pretty much just plain old Americans here. :party-face

I'm almost 100%, 2nd generation American. My father's mother has family that may go back another generation or two in the USA.

It really does not matter. Give me a pizza and some US craft beer and I'm happy as can be. :smlling-eyes

TBH, I consider myself American, first and foremost. For better or worse. My parents were born here. My paternal grandfather came here in the late 1880s, as a teen. He was probably one of the very first Japanese to come here. How he met my grandmother, I'll never know. My maternal grandparents came to the US sometime in the early 1900s.

I'm a 3rd generation American. Our family's been here longer than a lot of Americans of European descent. But many people here automatically assume I'm foreign-born. When in reality, I'm Japanese in DNA only. If I ever went to Japan, I'd be just another foreigner, but without the advantage of the "foreigner card" that Japanese automatically grant to foreigners of European descent. "Foreigner card," meaning you will be treated as special, and will be excused if you happen to commit a cultural faux pas.

It's an interesting type of life to be viewed as "different" and an outsider everywhere you go, including in your own country. I don't even relate to many other "Asian-Americans." But I like it. I've always been individualistic and had to become my own person, without basing my entire identity around being a part of any specific race, ethnic group, or culture.

I have younger relatives (niece, great niece and great nephew, and various cousins), who are mixed with English, Scottish, Mexican, Chinese, Korean, etc.

Jim
User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 14753
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Ancestry?

#75

Post by Doc Dan »

I have looked a bit at my family, but it is not a huge deal to me. On one grandmother's side, the family was well to do before the Civil War and not afterwards. The huge old house still stands and is in the family still. That side was related to George Washington. My father's father's family came from England and migrated to VA and then South. My great grandfather may or may not have married a Cherokee woman. The jury is still out. He did meet and marry her up in those hills. A lot of non-Native Americans had been taken into the tribe by marriage or other means during those early years, so people claiming they have Cherokee ancestry could be right, but they weren't Cherokee genetically.

On my mother's side, all I remember is that the family has been in America since the early 1600's. They include Irish and English. I don't remember the others.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
User avatar
Naperville
Member
Posts: 4360
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Ancestry?

#76

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:27 pm
Naperville wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:26 pm
I'm 1/4 Austrian, 3/4 Irish. (Think I have that right.)

A few of my female cousins and their children know how to Irish dance. My parents and a few of my aunts and uncles decades ago went to Ireland.

We are pretty much just plain old Americans here. :party-face

I'm almost 100%, 2nd generation American. My father's mother has family that may go back another generation or two in the USA.

It really does not matter. Give me a pizza and some US craft beer and I'm happy as can be. :smlling-eyes

TBH, I consider myself American, first and foremost. For better or worse. My parents were born here. My paternal grandfather came here in the late 1880s, as a teen. He was probably one of the very first Japanese to come here. How he met my grandmother, I'll never know. My maternal grandparents came to the US sometime in the early 1900s.

I'm a 3rd generation American. Our family's been here longer than a lot of Americans of European descent. But many people here automatically assume I'm foreign-born. When in reality, I'm Japanese in DNA only. If I ever went to Japan, I'd be just another foreigner, but without the advantage of the "foreigner card" that Japanese automatically grant to foreigners of European descent. "Foreigner card," meaning you will be treated as special, and will be excused if you happen to commit a cultural faux pas.

It's an interesting type of life to be viewed as "different" and an outsider everywhere you go, including in your own country. I don't even relate to many other "Asian-Americans." But I like it. I've always been individualistic and had to become my own person, without basing my entire identity around being a part of any specific race, ethnic group, or culture.

I have younger relatives (niece, great niece and great nephew, and various cousins), who are mixed with English, Scottish, Mexican, Chinese, Korean, etc.

Jim
WE are as American as Apple Pie! :party-face

I guess I'm 3rd generation (Irish descent) and 4th/5th generation (Austrian descent) if you count those who landed here, yet were born in another country.
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
T2T: https://tunnel2towers.org; Special Operations Wounded Warriors: https://sowwcharity.com/
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#77

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:19 am
James Y wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:27 pm
Naperville wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:26 pm
I'm 1/4 Austrian, 3/4 Irish. (Think I have that right.)

A few of my female cousins and their children know how to Irish dance. My parents and a few of my aunts and uncles decades ago went to Ireland.

We are pretty much just plain old Americans here. :party-face

I'm almost 100%, 2nd generation American. My father's mother has family that may go back another generation or two in the USA.

It really does not matter. Give me a pizza and some US craft beer and I'm happy as can be. :smlling-eyes

TBH, I consider myself American, first and foremost. For better or worse. My parents were born here. My paternal grandfather came here in the late 1880s, as a teen. He was probably one of the very first Japanese to come here. How he met my grandmother, I'll never know. My maternal grandparents came to the US sometime in the early 1900s.

I'm a 3rd generation American. Our family's been here longer than a lot of Americans of European descent. But many people here automatically assume I'm foreign-born. When in reality, I'm Japanese in DNA only. If I ever went to Japan, I'd be just another foreigner, but without the advantage of the "foreigner card" that Japanese automatically grant to foreigners of European descent. "Foreigner card," meaning you will be treated as special, and will be excused if you happen to commit a cultural faux pas.

It's an interesting type of life to be viewed as "different" and an outsider everywhere you go, including in your own country. I don't even relate to many other "Asian-Americans." But I like it. I've always been individualistic and had to become my own person, without basing my entire identity around being a part of any specific race, ethnic group, or culture.

I have younger relatives (niece, great niece and great nephew, and various cousins), who are mixed with English, Scottish, Mexican, Chinese, Korean, etc.

Jim
WE are as American as Apple Pie! :party-face

I guess I'm 3rd generation (Irish descent) and 4th/5th generation (Austrian descent) if you count those who landed here, yet were born in another country.
Thanks you for sharing!

🙂

Jim
User avatar
RustyIron
Member
Posts: 2375
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: La Habra, CA
Contact:

Re: Ancestry?

#78

Post by RustyIron »

My wife studied this kind of stuff for a while. She's a descendent of Charlemagne. I told her, "Let's get on a plane and go claim our chateau on the Loire. She said it doesn't work that way.

Really, everyone in Europe is a descendent of Charlemagne. The dude raped and pillaged his way across the empire.


270pol.jpg
.
James Y
Member
Posts: 7994
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: Ancestry?

#79

Post by James Y »

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:56 am
I have looked a bit at my family, but it is not a huge deal to me. On one grandmother's side, the family was well to do before the Civil War and not afterwards. The huge old house still stands and is in the family still. That side was related to George Washington. My father's father's family came from England and migrated to VA and then South. My great grandfather may or may not have married a Cherokee woman. The jury is still out. He did meet and marry her up in those hills. A lot of non-Native Americans had been taken into the tribe by marriage or other means during those early years, so people claiming they have Cherokee ancestry could be right, but they weren't Cherokee genetically.

On my mother's side, all I remember is that the family has been in America since the early 1600's. They include Irish and English. I don't remember the others.

Thanks for sharing, Doc.

I've heard that if someone has an ancestor of another race, but it goes back far enough, that the DNA from that ancestor will be nil, or almost nil.

I wondered about my paternal grandfather, because he was a big Japanese for his time, over 6' tall and solidly built, born in 1871. Bigger than most Europeans were back then. And he had an unusual look. He was from Kumamoto on Kyushu, only a short distance away from Nagasaki, which once had Portuguese traders and missionaries (1570 - 1639), and then Dutch traders (1641 - 1854). It's probable that some of these traders had "intermixed" with Japanese women. But I'm willing to bet that, even if there had been some Dutch mixed in (Portuguese were too short) to account for my grandfather's unusual size and characteristics (which I seriously doubt is the case), if I took a quality DNA test, I'm pretty certain that it would come up as 100% Asian/East Asian. Because even if there had been some Dutch DNA inserted into the ancestral line back then, it probably would have been recessed/bred out long ago, and most likely wouldn't even show up on a DNA test.

My grandfather did NOT have gigantism, so I firmly believe that his height and size were simply an anomaly. And that his unusual appearance for a Japanese was due to higher than normal Jomon (Japanese aboriginal) DNA. The physical traits are a match, except for his height and size.

Jim
User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 14753
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Ancestry?

#80

Post by Doc Dan »

James Y wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:55 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:56 am
I have looked a bit at my family, but it is not a huge deal to me. On one grandmother's side, the family was well to do before the Civil War and not afterwards. The huge old house still stands and is in the family still. That side was related to George Washington. My father's father's family came from England and migrated to VA and then South. My great grandfather may or may not have married a Cherokee woman. The jury is still out. He did meet and marry her up in those hills. A lot of non-Native Americans had been taken into the tribe by marriage or other means during those early years, so people claiming they have Cherokee ancestry could be right, but they weren't Cherokee genetically.

On my mother's side, all I remember is that the family has been in America since the early 1600's. They include Irish and English. I don't remember the others.

Thanks for sharing, Doc.

I've heard that if someone has an ancestor of another race, but it goes back far enough, that the DNA from that ancestor will be nil, or almost nil.

I wondered about my paternal grandfather, because he was a big Japanese for his time, over 6' tall and solidly built, born in 1871. Bigger than most Europeans were back then. And he had an unusual look. He was from Kumamoto on Kyushu, only a short distance away from Nagasaki, which once had Portuguese traders and missionaries (1570 - 1639), and then Dutch traders (1641 - 1854). It's probable that some of these traders had "intermixed" with Japanese women. But I'm willing to bet that, even if there had been some Dutch mixed in (Portuguese were too short) to account for my grandfather's unusual size and characteristics (which I seriously doubt is the case), if I took a quality DNA test, I'm pretty certain that it would come up as 100% Asian/East Asian. Because even if there had been some Dutch DNA inserted into the ancestral line back then, it probably would have been recessed/bred out long ago, and most likely wouldn't even show up on a DNA test.

My grandfather did NOT have gigantism, so I firmly believe that his height and size were simply an anomaly. And that his unusual appearance for a Japanese was due to higher than normal Jomon (Japanese aboriginal) DNA. The physical traits are a match, except for his height and size.

Jim
Why not take the test?

Another possibility is that there was a Russian in the mix, or it could have been a sailor cast upon the shores a very long way back. Even Vikings traversed the rivers across Asia and it is conceivable that one of them ended up staying in Japan.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)



NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
Post Reply