What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

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What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#1

Post by Doc Dan »

What do you all think of the US Army adopting the Sig Sauer XM5 6.8x51 to replace the M4 and M16 and etc.? I am of two minds about it. For one thing, it will give soldiers the ability to defeat modern body armor and longer ranges. It will give soldiers the ability to engage targets at very long range, especially with the new sight.

On the other hand, it is almost going backwards (not quite) to a heavier weapon with heavier ammunition. It might have been okay if they had gone with the plastic cased ammunition, but they didn't. They stuck with heavy brass and steel. Soldiers already carry heavy combat loads. The other thing I think is that the new weapon will be a problem for most shooters because of the recoil, even in semi-automatic mode. In full automatic I think it will be uncontrollable. I think that, but not having shot it I can't say for certain.

Still, the new rifle gives soldiers the ability to engage across mountain ridges and will shoot through obstructions. I wonder, though, if a shorter and lighter cartridge could not be found, or developed, that achieved the same goals.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#2

Post by Donut »

I think my brother's back is messed up from carrying a lot of stuff.

They'll be paying more disability.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#3

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

I am under the the impression that there is a possibility that the cartridges may not be using brass which would be a weight savings . I had friends that expressed disappointment in the 5.56 when they transitioned from the 308 . My concern is barrel longevity but it will be modular that may not really be an issue . Another thing I wonder what the rifle role will be ? Will everyone have this rifle in a squad or will it be special purpose ? As far as recoil that is a subject that is of many opinions. Dan
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#4

Post by MacLaren »

I've never served in the Armed Forces.
But, in my humble opinion, which basically counts for nothin, I feel that if they were going to do that, then they should just go back to 762x51/.308
The .308 imo, is just excellent.....
But, who wants to do that? Rich buddies can't get richer with that now can they?
I'm assuming this new round is proprietary?
Please excuse my ignorance...
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#5

Post by Doc Dan »

Well, MG, the round is flatter shooting. It is a metal case, a new design. It has a steel head and brass body to handle the astounding 80,000psi. Every soldier that is in a combat role is supposed to get issued the new rifle as they are available. Having served in the Arctic (there is a new Arctic Airborne brigade, now, too!) we always worried about the 5.56 penetrating all of the layers of arctic gear. This is no longer an issue.

Mac, apparently, this round far out performs the 7.62x51/308 and does it in a 16" barrel. The 308 looses a huge amount of velocity in a barrel that short. That way, this new rifle/carbine is still useful for house to house and jungle warfare, while giving long range ability.

The new round is made by one company but it will be made by others, you can bet, and new sporting rifles will be forthcoming very soon.

My real concerns are with the heavier weight of the rifle and ammunition and the recoil. I hope this works out. China and many other nations have adopted new weapons with a 5.56 class cartridge and the USA, which started the trend, is moving away from it. I still wonder if another short cartridge with lighter bullet going fast could have been developed. I know many tried. We have the 6mm ARC and many others. Why did they fail? I wonder that even though they were more effective than the 5.56 and have longer range, that they would not penetrate the new body armor at distance? The new 6.8 cartridge will.

I don't know.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#6

Post by JRinFL »

Physics is cruel and only allows you to do what you want to achieve in certain ways. No way around it. The crazy high pressure is there for a reason as is the bullet size, shape, and weight. If there was a way to make it smaller, lighter, faster, and equal or more effective, they would have. The Military set the parameters, the makers had to meet or exceed them. TANSTAAFL applies.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#7

Post by RustyIron »

MacLaren wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 7:25 am
But, in my humble opinion, which basically counts for nothin, I feel that if they were going to do that, then they should just go back to 762x51/.308
The .308 imo, is just excellent.....
I don't know anything other than what I've read, either. But both the rifle and round have been around for a couple years. The .277 Fury is sorta like a .308, but higher pressure, higher velocity, more energy on the target, and less drop at range. That all sounds good, but I've never shot anyone, and have no intention of shooting anyone. If the Army thinks it's a good system, then I'm in no place to argue.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#8

Post by MacLaren »

Yeah, I'm waaaaaay outta my depth lol...
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#9

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

When I first read about the new rifle I was under the impression that it is a retro fit . The upper receiver and barrel drops into the 5.56 lower receiver. I could be wrong . I have to agree the military sets the criteria for the new round based on their needs . Dan
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#10

Post by yablanowitz »

MacLaren wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 am
Yeah, I'm waaaaaay outta my depth lol...
The U.S. Army knows what they want and what they are doing.
I could debate that, but I'll refrain. (Navy veteran)

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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#11

Post by knivesandbooks »

I'm just wondering why they didn't adapt the M4 for the new round. Perhaps with the gas system, it isn't as easy as re-chambering. I really have no idea. Seems more economical to adapt a proven design.

As for the ammunition, I like the specs. I'll be happy to get to try it once it becomes more civilian available.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#12

Post by max808 »

Going by the numbers it would seem superior muzzle velocity/ballistics, but that Sig looks huge! Does the suppressor come standard?
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#13

Post by MacLaren »

yablanowitz wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 10:55 am
MacLaren wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 am
Yeah, I'm waaaaaay outta my depth lol...
The U.S. Army knows what they want and what they are doing.
I could debate that, but I'll refrain. (Navy veteran)

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Lol, I'll bet so!
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#14

Post by Coastal »

Man, 8.4 lb plus a pound-and-a-half of ammo sounds like BIG weapon. That doesn't include an optic and/or a suppressor.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#15

Post by bearrowland »

It does sound a bit heavy, but the M16A2 I lugged over hill and Dale wasn't much lighter. If they can keep it balanced, that should help too. The interesting thing, imo, is that I understand it to be a bullpup? I say it's about time!
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#16

Post by Doc Dan »

bearrowland wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 6:50 pm
It does sound a bit heavy, but the M16A2 I lugged over hill and Dale wasn't much lighter. If they can keep it balanced, that should help too. The interesting thing, imo, is that I understand it to be a bullpup? I say it's about time!
No, they decided against the bullpup and decided for the Sig carbine instead. It is around the same size as an M4, but with a blockier fore end, from what I gather. I think a bullpup would have been preferable in tight places.

Actually, you might be right. By the time you get all of the gewgaws on a modern M16 it is not light weight anymore.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#17

Post by wrdwrght »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 5:33 am
What do you all think of the US Army adopting the Sig Sauer XM5 6.8x51 to replace the M4 and M16 and etc.?
The replacement in question is for a squad’s light machine gun, not for an individual’s M16/M4.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#18

Post by Doc Dan »

wrdwrght wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 7:59 pm
Doc Dan wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 5:33 am
What do you all think of the US Army adopting the Sig Sauer XM5 6.8x51 to replace the M4 and M16 and etc.?
The replacement in question is for a squad’s light machine gun, not for an individual’s M16/M4.
That is incorrect. They are replacing both. The XM5 will replace the M4 (and become the M5). The XM250 will replace the squad LMG and become the M250. They are working towards one type of ammunition and one platform.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... d-saw.html

This article needs updating. They plan to replace all M4 and LMG in use in combat troops. They are going to buy over 200k M5's. I don't know how many M250's, but enough for each quad to have one. This is to be done over the next few years, starting next year.

The 6.8x51 is superior to the 7.62x51 and the M5 is superior to the 60 plus year old M4/M16. The M16/M4 is antiquated and needed replacing, anyway, to keep up with technological advancements.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#19

Post by wrdwrght »

I stand corrected. And am now interested.
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Re: What do you think of the US Army going to the Sig XM5 6.8x51?

#20

Post by Halfneck »

Been out for a while, and everyone I served with is out/retired now, but I'm hearing the Army need to focus on marksmanship. A more lethal round counts for nothing if you don't hit what you're aiming at. Especially important if you are lugging a heavier weapon with a reduced load-out.
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