Grandpa’s Knives
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4779
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Grandpa’s Knives
I hope you and your families had a wonderful Holiday.
My dad handed down two of my Grandfather’s knives today, and while I was able to identify quite a bit, I wonder if I might draw on the wisdom of the forum?
The first is an Imperial Frontier 4431 Stockman with Stag Delrin scales. Looks like it was produced between 1976-1980, and this particular model was probably given to my Grandpa by Wells Fargo as a promotional item, possibly when he retired.
The second is his USMC Mk2 Fighting Knife that he took to Korea. It was made by Camillus. My grandpa enlisted near the end of WW2, but the war ended before he saw combat (thankfully). He remained with the Marine Corps, and served in “the forgotten war.” My admittedly brief research tells me the knife was made in 1944 or 1945 (guard stamp, through-pinned pommel, square peened tang).
Ok, a few questions.
1) Any idea what steel was used in either of these knives?
2) Should I attempt to restore them? I think I’d like to polish up and carry the Imperial, but I hesitate to touch the Mk2. It's not like it's in mint condition or anything, but something tells me I shouldn't mess around too much with it.
That last pic is alongside my own KABAR, made by KABAR, which I purchased new maybe 15 years ago.
My dad handed down two of my Grandfather’s knives today, and while I was able to identify quite a bit, I wonder if I might draw on the wisdom of the forum?
The first is an Imperial Frontier 4431 Stockman with Stag Delrin scales. Looks like it was produced between 1976-1980, and this particular model was probably given to my Grandpa by Wells Fargo as a promotional item, possibly when he retired.
The second is his USMC Mk2 Fighting Knife that he took to Korea. It was made by Camillus. My grandpa enlisted near the end of WW2, but the war ended before he saw combat (thankfully). He remained with the Marine Corps, and served in “the forgotten war.” My admittedly brief research tells me the knife was made in 1944 or 1945 (guard stamp, through-pinned pommel, square peened tang).
Ok, a few questions.
1) Any idea what steel was used in either of these knives?
2) Should I attempt to restore them? I think I’d like to polish up and carry the Imperial, but I hesitate to touch the Mk2. It's not like it's in mint condition or anything, but something tells me I shouldn't mess around too much with it.
That last pic is alongside my own KABAR, made by KABAR, which I purchased new maybe 15 years ago.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
I wouldn't do much to either one, maybe look into chemical rust removal (oxalic acid bath, vinegar) just to remove any corrosion but I don't think I'd polish anything because I'd want the scratches from use to remain. I would get them as clean as I could without sanding or polishing and I'd probably carry the Stockman once in a while but I'd just save the KaBar, it has too much historical significance to be splitting wood with it.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
This would me answer too.Evil D wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:02 amI wouldn't do much to either one, maybe look into chemical rust removal (oxalic acid bath, vinegar) just to remove any corrosion but I don't think I'd polish anything because I'd want the scratches from use to remain. I would get them as clean as I could without sanding or polishing and I'd probably carry the Stockman once in a while but I'd just save the KaBar, it has too much historical significance to be splitting wood with it.
-
- Member
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:38 pm
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
That'd be my advice as well. I'd put a good sharp edge on that Imperial and carry it on special occasion. Otherwise I'd leave them untouched.troutinCO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:50 amThis would me answer too.Evil D wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:02 amI wouldn't do much to either one, maybe look into chemical rust removal (oxalic acid bath, vinegar) just to remove any corrosion but I don't think I'd polish anything because I'd want the scratches from use to remain. I would get them as clean as I could without sanding or polishing and I'd probably carry the Stockman once in a while but I'd just save the KaBar, it has too much historical significance to be splitting wood with it.
Current Top 3
Kapara, Native 5, Pacific Salt 2
M.N.O.S.D #0034
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."
-Theodore Roosevelt
Kapara, Native 5, Pacific Salt 2
M.N.O.S.D #0034
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."
-Theodore Roosevelt
- Doc Dan
- Member
- Posts: 14759
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
- Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
I think the Camillus USMC knife is 1095.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)
Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)
NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
Follow the Christ, the King,
Live pure, speak true, right wrong, follow the King--
Else, wherefore born?" (Tennyson)
NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050
-
- Member
- Posts: 6145
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:30 am
- Location: Unfashionable West End of the Galaxy (SE USA)
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
Considering the age of that Camillus, I'd say it is in fantastic condition and I would not change it.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
- Manixguy@1994
- Member
- Posts: 12426
- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:12 pm
- Location: Central Illinois
- Contact:
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
I thank him for his service protecting all us . I can’t add much that has already been said other that look at protecting the sheath . MG2
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
-
- Member
- Posts: 6881
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:16 pm
- Location: Liberal, Kansas
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
It has been a long time since I looked at the MilSpec for the "KaBar" but I'm fairly sure it specified 1095 steel. The Imperial/Frontier is 1095 as well. They generally did a pretty good job with the heat treatment on those. Lower price knives, but good users none the less. Aside from scraping off any red rust, I personally wouldn't do anything more than wiping down with an oily rag, just to preserve them and the memories they hold.
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4779
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
He sure would have appreciated it. Since you asked (kind of):Manixguy@1994 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:13 amI thank him for his service protecting all us . I can’t add much that has already been said other that look at protecting the sheath . MG2
My Grandfather enlisted with the Marine Corps straight out of high school towards the end of the war - I think 1944. We were getting ready for Operation Downfall, the invasion of the Japanese home islands, and casualty predictions were in the millions. He was a private, but they enrolled him in an emergency officer's training program which prepped him to take on the responsibilities of the next two or three ranks above him if push came to shove - in light of the expected casualties.
Luckily for him, the war ended early with the Atom bombs and he came home in 1945. He remained with the corps through the 50s, and served at least two years in Korea. He didn't like to talk too much about the war - the only thing my father ever got out of him was that it was cold - very cold - in Korea.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4779
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
Mike over at Bark River agrees about the 1095 - specifically, right around 55rc he says.yablanowitz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:55 amIt has been a long time since I looked at the MilSpec for the "KaBar" but I'm fairly sure it specified 1095 steel. The Imperial/Frontier is 1095 as well. They generally did a pretty good job with the heat treatment on those. Lower price knives, but good users none the less. Aside from scraping off any red rust, I personally wouldn't do anything more than wiping down with an oily rag, just to preserve them and the memories they hold.
I hadn't been able to find much on that Imperial/Frontier knife - thanks very much! If it's 1095, it's in pretty great shape - patina, but no rust, and very smooth operation. I see they go for cheap on eBay, but I'm pretty stoked to be carrying Grandpa's knife!
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
So great that you have such great pieces of your family history! Likewise, I treasure having both my Dad's and his brother's KaBars and hope that my son will also appreciate them too.
Native 5 LW Spy27, Cat, Delica, Sage 5LW S30V
- The Mastiff
- Member
- Posts: 5936
- Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
- Location: raleigh nc
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
I have a longer history with 1095 knives than Spyderco and I've carried Spydercos since 92. I use rennisance wax on mine. It won't damage any of the memories and will preserve the steel just like you see it when you first put it on. If I use them I just reapply the wax. It takes me a lot less than 5 minutes with a fixed blade like the Kabar. I enjoy the look it gives the blades too. With the blade waxed I have no fear of keeping it stored in the leather sheath too.
Oily rags work almost as well but if you pick up rust onto the rag you will reapply it onto the next knife. It can give a beginning to rust on even some stainless knives.
Nice knives. It's good to see people showing the respect to the preceding generations. It's a good way to see how practical and useful those older knives are as well.
Joe
Oily rags work almost as well but if you pick up rust onto the rag you will reapply it onto the next knife. It can give a beginning to rust on even some stainless knives.
Nice knives. It's good to see people showing the respect to the preceding generations. It's a good way to see how practical and useful those older knives are as well.
Joe
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
You can guess which one was owned by my Dad, the Jarhead and the other his brother, a pilot in the US Army Air Corps!
Native 5 LW Spy27, Cat, Delica, Sage 5LW S30V
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4779
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
Looking a lot like Army on bottom to me - definitely signs of use. Very cool to have both, and to be able to compare them.
I'll try to get some daytime pics this weekend to show off the battle scars.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
- kennethsime
- Member
- Posts: 4779
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 pm
- Location: California
Re: Grandpa’s Knives
Sharpened up the Frontier Stockman tonight on the Sharpmaker. For the first time, I had better results free handing with the sharpmaker rods than using the system - I think perhaps the edge was more obtuse than the sharp maker's 20DPS. All three blades now slice L.L. Bean catalog paper smoothly.
I think I'm going to get some flitz and clean this one up. Nothing serious, just clean up some of the surface corrosion. Then cleaning and oiling, and it'll be ready for carry.
I think I'm going to get some flitz and clean this one up. Nothing serious, just clean up some of the surface corrosion. Then cleaning and oiling, and it'll be ready for carry.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.