freedom v. fear

[ladybug93]

i'll start this off by saying i don't want this to become political. as far as i can tell, it's not a problem that lies with a political party. please discuss the issue and don't get my post shut down.

now that that's out of the way...

i was walking through d.c. this weekend and had to leave behind my beloved pocket knives. i decided to still bring along a sak rambler (a small keychain knife like the classic, but with a little phillips screwdriver and bottle opener addition) as a sacrificial knife that wouldn't break my heart to lose. i fully expected to lose it, but it actually survived multiple security screenings, to include entry at a federal building where i almost lost my edc about ten years ago. im not sure i'd have the same results if i did the same thing tomorrow.

here's what i don't get though... what are these museums (and amusement parks and airlines, for that matter) afraid of? most people that carry a knife are not looking to do any harm. most people that are looking to do harm don't care about rules and will do harm with whatever is convenient, whether it's a knife, gun, pen, chair, etc. why is is that i can't carry a pocket knife in these places? what do they think is going to happen? how does a pocket knife make me a menace in d.c. and not everywhere else? why is a knife not seen as a tool, as opposed to a weapon, in a country that doesn't largely suffer from knife violence?

i made it through the weekend without using a knife at all. it was really no big deal, other than feeling naked and thinking i might've lost my knife multiple times when i reached for it and it wasn't there. the big deal for me though is freedom. i spent the day looking at human history, american history, the history of flight and space travel, and the history of wars and bloody battles in the name of securing and maintaining freedom, all while surrendering my own in the name of unfounded fear of others.

i don't get it. what am i missing? i'd love to understand from a different perspective, but i doubt there's one that actually is justifiable. i'm open to hearing it though. and maybe this is the wrong place, because i imagine a lot of you feel similarly and/or live in even more restrictive environments. ugh...

[SG89]

They don't want to get sued. That's it.

[ladybug93]

They don't want to get sued. That's it.

it's legal to carry a 3" knife in d.c. unless you're inside just about any building there. they shouldn't be held responsible for bad people doing bad things. and even if that was a real concern, the chances of it happening are so slim.

[SG89]

they shouldn't be held responsible for bad people doing bad things.

That's unfortunately not how it works. If the money tree can be shaken it will be.

[The Meat man]

You know, I had a crazy experience in DC that made me think of this very subject. A number of years ago, I was with a small group of friends and we decided on the spur of the moment to visit the National Aquarium. Well who'd have thought there would be next-level airport-style security there? The guards were extremely rude, wouldn't even look at us or answer our questions like, "do I need to take off my shoes and belt?".

With idiots like that running the place, of course things went wrong. I had a leatherman multitool on my belt, but I took it out of the pouch and put it in the plastic bin with the rest of my pocket stuff getting x-rayed. The sheath was still on my belt when I went through the metal detector. The detector went off, the guard starts yelling and ordering me to turn around, demanding what the belt pouch was for. I told him, told him that the multitool was in the bins getting x-rayed (which passed, ironically enough.) He walked me over and switched his flashlight onto the bin, wanting me to point out the big scary multitool in the bin. I did so, and then the big baboon yelled at me to leave the building, not even letting me get my things back. My buddies got it for me and came out a few minutes later.

Of course the whole thing could have been avoided if the guards had actually responded to our questions. All we wanted to do was comply. There were no signs or anything. Instead, they chose to ignore us.

But this brings me back to your point LB. The mentality is so completely irrational. What a life! The plain fact is, so many of those people have become so insulated from the realities of life that they completely fall apart when confronted with anything even remotely resembling danger. Or in my case, it's just an opportunity for sick-minded control freaks to try to exercise what power they have over someone else.

[Mad Mac]

In 1962, Colonel Jeff Cooper coined the term "hoplophobia": an irrational fear of weapons.

[Naperville]

The fact that you cannot defend yourself against 4 to 5 guys kicking and swinging at you without getting a misdemeanor, when nobody was in imminent danger of being cut with a 2< blade is funny. The country is sissified.

I definitely want out of Illinois and it is just a matter of time and it is going to happen.

[James Y]

In the case of Connor's experience of rude guards who ignore your questions, and overreact to a tool in a bin in an X-ray machine, I'm going to play amateur psychologist. But this is based on my own experiences and observations of such people, and you don't necessarily need some degree to figure it out.

It might not even be hoplophobia. In the case shared above, it could be the guards were schoolyard bullies who never grew up, and becoming a security guard was the best they could do in life to achieve a position of authority, where they could throw their weight around. They have a chip on their shoulder, for whatever reason, and like taking it out on people that, deep down inside, they feel have more, or have it better than they do. Being rude and unreasonable and making things difficult for people gives them a fleeting sense of power that they don't have in their own miserable lives.

I'm not saying all security guards are that way. I've also had many pleasant experiences with good people in that profession.

Jim

[The Meat man]

In the case of Connor's experience of rude guards who ignore your questions, and overreact to a tool in a bin in an X-ray machine, I'm going to play amateur psychologist. But this is based on my own experiences and observations of such people, and you don't necessarily need some degree to figure it out.

It might not even be hoplophobia. In the case shared above, it could be the guards were schoolyard bullies who never grew up, and becoming a security guard was the best they could do in life to achieve a position of authority, where they could throw their weight around. They have a chip on their shoulder, for whatever reason, and like taking it out on people that, deep down inside, they feel have more, or have it better than they do. Being rude and unreasonable and making things difficult for people gives them a fleeting sense of power that they don't have in their own lives.

I'm not saying all security guards are that way. I've had many pleasant experiences with good people in that profession.

Jim

Agreed, I think you nailed it. Also, yes, thankfully such rudeness has been the exception rather than the rule in my experience. Most of those people, security at airports for example, are just normal people doing a tedious and thankless job. (whether or not you agree with the necessity of it.) If you are polite and respectful nearly every time they will respond in kind.

[yablanowitz]

O.P., you're lucky you didn't open your mouth and demonstrate that you were in possesion of a working brain cell. I'm pretty sure that's a capital offense in DC.

[Doc Dan]

You guys and your knives scare me. I'm afraid.

I'm going to write to my congressman and demand he do something about your knives. I am afraid they will get up and suddenly catch a plane and come hurt me.

[ladybug93]

i posted here not too long ago about tsa not allowing me to bring my pen on a flight. it's not even a tactical pen, but they insisted it was a weapon that could be used as a pen.

i had security guards at lego land freak out when they saw my native salt in a tray. they basically dove on the tray like it was a grenade they were saving everyone from. they were quite proud of themselves.

i had security in d.c. see a knife in the tray once and they flipped out as well. they told me to hide it in a planter outside to get when i left the building. i told them that was irresponsible and dangerous and i wouldn't do it, so i wasn't allowed in.

one good story... in hawaii of all places, i went to the arizona memorial at pearl harbor. i walked up to a security guard and asked him if i was allowed to have a knife. he asked how big it was and i hesitantly told him "enough." it was pacific salt. he said we weren't supposed to have knives, but he knows how important it is to carry a knife and be able to, so he let me in with it. it was nice to see a real human with some sense in uniform.

no one that saw my sak rambler this weekend was afraid of it, so i guess that's a positive. it only got flagged once. i was asked if i had a multi-tool, to which i almost answered no and then realized i technically did. i showed them and they said it was fine. it definitely could've gone the other way, and i'm certain it would have with any larger edc knife.

it's just sad. it was really great to go to the american history museum and see the actual flag that flew over ft mchenry and inspired the words of our national anthem, but it's a really weird juxtaposition to not have the freedom to carry a basic pocket knife while doing so.

[Naperville]

When we talk about 2nd Amendment Rights, which is what we are speaking about, we need to speak of the Restoration of Rights that have been taken away incrementally since 1776. I'm not sure when the Rights started to be taken away, I've only been alive 61 years and I am not an expert on this subject.

[The Deacon]

They don't want to get sued. That's it.

You're probably right, but it can backfire. Are you less liable or more liable if you have, for example, a "no knives" rule and someone gets stabbed anyway? Look at how much did screwing up Roof's background check just cost the Feds.

[ChrisinHove]

I get it with art galleries, unfortunately. There have been multiple incidents of lunatics slashing important artworks, and even the tiniest SAK is all that is needed. As a consequence you also often have to look at pieces behind glass, from a distance, or even a make do with seeing a copy.

I’ve had a non locking SAK confiscated, and another time barred entry for having a SAK, going into stone built ancient monuments, however. I could have whittled one of the sign boards, or scratched my moniker somewhere, I suppose ….

Personally, I blame the Risk Assessment culture, where the person implementing it is far-and-away most concerned with the risk to themselves. If there was such a risk to the population from knives as they must otherwise believe, every restaurant would be a scene of carnage and a total bloodbath!

[Ankerson]

i'll start this off by saying i don't want this to become political. as far as i can tell, it's not a problem that lies with a political party. please discuss the issue and don't get my post shut down.

now that that's out of the way...

i was walking through d.c. this weekend and had to leave behind my beloved pocket knives. i decided to still bring along a sak rambler (a small keychain knife like the classic, but with a little phillips screwdriver and bottle opener addition) as a sacrificial knife that wouldn't break my heart to lose. i fully expected to lose it, but it actually survived multiple security screenings, to include entry at a federal building where i almost lost my edc about ten years ago. im not sure i'd have the same results if i did the same thing tomorrow.

here's what i don't get though... what are these museums (and amusement parks and airlines, for that matter) afraid of? most people that carry a knife are not looking to do any harm. most people that are looking to do harm don't care about rules and will do harm with whatever is convenient, whether it's a knife, gun, pen, chair, etc. why is is that i can't carry a pocket knife in these places? what do they think is going to happen? how does a pocket knife make me a menace in d.c. and not everywhere else? why is a knife not seen as a tool, as opposed to a weapon, in a country that doesn't largely suffer from knife violence?

i made it through the weekend without using a knife at all. it was really no big deal, other than feeling naked and thinking i might've lost my knife multiple times when i reached for it and it wasn't there. the big deal for me though is freedom. i spent the day looking at human history, american history, the history of flight and space travel, and the history of wars and bloody battles in the name of securing and maintaining freedom, all while surrendering my own in the name of unfounded fear of others.

i don't get it. what am i missing? i'd love to understand from a different perspective, but i doubt there's one that actually is justifiable. i'm open to hearing it though. and maybe this is the wrong place, because i imagine a lot of you feel similarly and/or live in even more restrictive environments. ugh...

In society in general there are and always have been rules (laws) and regulations that have to be followed. There always has been and will be someone in charge running things.

Want to live in a civilized society or not?

Freedom is NOT free.

Civilized Society is not a free for all do anything and everything one wants to do anytime they please with no rules and laws.

No one person is the whole world, people really do need to grasp that reality and sooner than later.

Nobody is telling one they can't own a knife, they are just telling one they aren't going to bring it into (enter place here).

Their house their rules.

Reason does not matter.

People have the freedom to choose not to enter whatever place if they don't like it.

[standy99]

Can’t bring a knife on a plane nowadays, yet travelling Delta business class they gave me a proper steak knife to use for dinner……

[Ankerson]

Can’t bring a knife on a plane nowadays, yet travelling Delta business class they gave me a proper steak knife to use for dinner……

Doesn't matter.

[JRinFL]

If they really wanted to improve security they would hire real professionals and pay the cost for said professionals, rather than hiring low paid, poorly trained employees playing the role of security. It really is security theater meant to give the impression they are "doing something™".

Only our "betters" have real security, paid for by us.

[aicolainen]

This development isn't so strange to me (though I'm no expert). It's sad, but not strange.

Increasing urbanization and globalization is decoupling most people from basic tasks and processes.
Very few are self sufficient or employ even a basic level of preparedness anymore, and while the pandemic might have turned the tide a little bit, at least for a little while, self sufficiency has pretty much been frowned upon in later times. It is borderline illegal many places.

If you grow up in an urbanized environment, you will not be familiar with the useful applications of knives, firearms and other dangerous tools. And if you're not familiar with their useful and harmless applications you will become distrustful of anyone in possession of such an object. If you live in a crime ridden area this distortion becomes even more amplified.
I will argue that more people are being harmed by familiar objects and "tools" that they do not fear, than of e.g. pocket knives. I personally fear smart phones and social media to a much larger degree than knives. Anecdotally I got my first O/U shotgun when I was 12. That would be impossible today, yet I would rather my kids had their own shotguns at 12 than their own smart phones at 9, which is so common these days, that you risk having kids that become social outsiders if you hold back as a parent.

A little insight as far as Norway goes, and it's getting quite silly; Legally, you're not allowed to carry any weapon in public, and anything that is deemed suitable to cause bodily harm is considered a weapon under the law.
So going back to my point of self sufficiency being borderline illegal, if you're following the law by the letter, you're pretty much unable to prepare for anything unexpected.
For instance the inside of a car on a public road is considered to be public space, so in theory you can't legally stash really important tools like spanners, a snow shovel, a knife or any other basic preparedness item in your car, that could be misused to harm someone.

Now, such stringent laws would never work in practice, and my guess is that most Norwegians are blissfully unaware of the full extent of these laws. Although we're being urbanized at warp speed, there's still some amount of common sense going around, and common sense is thankfully to a large extent governing the enforcement of these laws.
The sad part is that these laws makes anything you do a gamble at worst or a privilege at best. In what's probably a well intended "development" to catch and prosecute (real) criminals, the law is slowly turned into a tool that makes everyone a criminal rather than what I consider the intention of a law to be: a fair contract that makes interaction between people, organizations and government bodies predictable, so we can spend our time being productive rather than fearful.