Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#21

Post by Doc Dan »

I don't watch what is laughingly called "Pro" wrestling. I was a real wrestler in high school.
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#22

Post by James Y »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:59 pm
I
I don't watch what is laughingly called "Pro" wrestling. I was a real wrestler in high school.

I can totally understand that. To each his own. 🙂

Actually, there are a ton of current and former “pro wrestlers” who were previously real wrestlers, some of them champions and Olympians. Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Chad Gable, Dolph Ziggler, Bobby Lashley, Jake Hager, Dan Severn, Shelton Benjamin, Kurt Hennig, Ric Flair, Randy Orton, etc.

Other current and former pro wrestlers have come from legitimate Judo and/or MMA backgrounds, such as Gene LeBell, Ken Shamrock, Ronda Rousey, Shayna Baszler, Shinsuke Nakamura, Yujiro Kushida, Junior Dos Santos, Paige VanZant, etc. Kazushi Sakuraba had both an amateur and a pro wrestling background in Japan before he fought in MMA and became “The Gracie Killer.”

These are only a few of the former amateur wrestlers:

https://www.thesportster.com/wrestling/ ... ackground/

“Pro” wrestling is a spectacle, not a sport. I have a lot of respect for amateur wrestling, and my Kenpo Karate teacher had had an amateur wrestling background as well as boxed in the military, which he incorporated into his teaching. And as a massage therapist, I’ve had amateur wrestlers and MMA/BJJ competitors as clients. However, I highly doubt that many people would pay to sit and watch Greco-Roman or Freestyle wrestling for hours as entertainment.

Professional wrestling had its origins in the early 1800s in France. I view it as strictly carny-style entertainment. In the same way that I can enjoy watching a good old-school Kung Fu movie, or any movie with good fight scenes, even though I’ve trained real martial arts for over 47 years, and even had some competitive full-contact experience, as well as some real fights. It doesn’t bother me that the movies are fake. ALL scripted movies and TV series are fake, even the more realistic ones. If everything had to be 100% real, I probably wouldn’t watch much of anything.

OTOH, if something is being presented as real, that's when I demand authenticity.

I’m not trying to justify my viewing habits or defend pro wrestling. If we don't like something, we don't like something, for any number of reasons. But I find it fascinating that so many look down on forms of entertainment like “pro” wrestling or martial arts films for being fake, yet they enthusiastically embrace other things that are fake, such as comedies, horror, sci-fi (Star Wars, Star Trek, Batman movies, Marvel Universe movies, The Walking Dead, etc.), spy thrillers (the James Bond films), fantasy series and movies (like Game Of Thrones and Lord Of The Rings), westerns (I’m sure real gunfighters in the Old West mowed down 12 men at a time with their 6-shooters like Clint Eastwood), crime dramas (don’t get me started on how fake the courtroom scenes are in the Law And Order shows), rom-coms, “reality TV,” etc. I’m not being testy here, just putting that out as food for thought, if being ‘real’ is a prerequisite for being entertaining.

🙂

Jim
Last edited by James Y on Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#23

Post by Sharp Guy »

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:40 pm
There's a great Texas Monthly article about the Von Erich family... Should be able to read it free online
Ha! My girl talks about watching wrestling as a young girl and never fails to mention the Von Erichs. I'll have to look for that article

Edit: actually found a couple articles. Thanks!
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#24

Post by MacLaren »

I loved watching it in the early '80's - when my dad wasn't at home anyways, lol. He wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with it..
But, I liked it. I remember Georgia Championship Wrestling, Mid Atlantic Championship Wrestling, etc....when they were territories. I remember the first pro wrestler I ever saw was Harley Race. It was a on a magazine that my buddy brought to school.
I also remember Jimmmy Superfly Snooka, Ricky Steamboat, Junkyard Dog, Dusty Rhodes, Black Jack Mullligan, Wahoo McDaniel, and of course the Nature Boy!! ......wow, those names just kept coming in my memory....gosh, Ole & Arn Anderson, Nikita Kolof, Ivan Kolof, The Iron Sheik. And many more....the best treat though was when Andre The Giant was there. Man oh man....
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#25

Post by The Deacon »

Use to enjoy watching pro wrestling quite a bit. Haven't watched it for 20+ years, but that's only because I haven't watched network TV for that long.
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#26

Post by JD Spydo »

There was a time back in the days of the late 80s/early 90s I'll admit that I did watch some of the old WWF wrestling. Sure it's as fake as a gold-digger you might meet in a bar>> but it was truly funny and entertaining.

Back in the days of Hulk Hogan, The Big Boss Man, Brutus The Barber Beefcake, Randy "Macho Man" Savage, The Honky Tonk Man, Ricky The Dragon Steamboat along with Andre The Giant and I could go on for about 20 minutes naming off several of those guys from that era. Both my nephews were little at the time and spent weekends with their favorite uncle ( me). And they wanted to watch that WWF stuff constantly.

But to me those were the Golden Days of pro wrestling. What blows me away is that most of those wrestlers from that era are dead already and many of them didn't get past their 50th birthday. I was amazed at how many of them over-dosed on their medications along with alcohol. Even the Ultimate Warrior and Rick Rude are both dead and those guys looked like they were in great shape too. That really puzzles me too as to why such a huge percentage of those guys died relatively young?
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#27

Post by James Y »

JD Spydo wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:03 am
There was a time back in the days of the late 80s/early 90s I'll admit that I did watch some of the old WWF wrestling. Sure it's as fake as a gold-digger you might meet in a bar>> but it was truly funny and entertaining.

Back in the days of Hulk Hogan, The Big Boss Man, Brutus The Barber Beefcake, Randy "Macho Man" Savage, The Honky Tonk Man, Ricky The Dragon Steamboat along with Andre The Giant and I could go on for about 20 minutes naming off several of those guys from that era. Both my nephews were little at the time and spent weekends with their favorite uncle ( me). And they wanted to watch that WWF stuff constantly.;

But to me those were the Golden Days of pro wrestling. What blows me away is that most of those wrestlers from that era are dead already and many of them didn't get past their 50th birthday. I was amazed at how many of them over-dosed on their medications along with alcohol. Even the Ultimate Warrior and Rick Rude are both dead and those guys looked like they were in great shape too. That really puzzles me too as to why such a huge percentage of those guys died relatively young?

Joe,

It isn’t only a bunch of guys (and some gals) from that old era who have died prematurely. There are a surprising number from The Attitude Era (late ‘90s to early 2000s), and some from much more recently, who have died before 50, from various causes. Overdose, suicide, illness, even murder. One of them, Shad Gaspard, died while saving his son from drowning. The list below does NOT include all of them, nor does it include wrestlers who had reached their 50s. Some died from overdosing (often on painkillers), some from other causes. The Ultimate Warrior dropped dead in his early-to-mid-50s from a heart attack in a restaurant parking lot. Professional wrestling is considered one of the riskiest professions, if you hope to live a long life. I suppose it’s similar to rock stars (or pop music stars in general) who also have a propensity for dying young. I have no idea why Andy Kaufman was included on this list, other than he did one pro wrestling angle with Jerry Lawler.

For people who think pro wrestling is ALL fake, many pro wrestlers develop severe cases of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy) from all the repeated impacts to their heads. The stories may be scripted and the matches predetermined, but the falls and the impacts are very real. Others who often develop CTE include football players, boxers, military vets, etc. And it’s becoming more apparent in MMA fighters.

 https://wrestlerdeaths.com/wrestlers-wh ... re-age-50/

Joe, I’m 58, and a few weeks ago was my high school class’s 40-year reunion. Although I didn’t attend, a classmate sent a link to a gallery of photos taken at the event. Three of the photos showed a memorial to classmates who are no longer with us. There were at least 20 guys and gals who have passed. Some whose passing I had already known about for years, but others’ passing was a bit of a shock to me.

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#28

Post by JD Spydo »

Good points you make Jim. But with the late 80s/early 90s WWF wrestlers that have such a huge mortality rate compared to the general public is just off the charts. Even little, gorgeous Ms Elizabeth who managed Macho Man Randy Savage is even dead which truly shocked me when I learned of it. The number of wrestlers from that era that are already dead is nothing short of astounding to me.

It's actually hard to make a list of wrestlers or managers from that era that are still alive. I'm kind of surprised that Hulk Hogan is still alive with all the steroids and other substances that he abused throughout his career>> not to mention the tremendous wear and tear he endured all those years. Even though Wrestling is fake for the most part they still get injured doing their performances. And some of those injuries are severe too. They said it was a minor miracle that Andre The Giant lasted as long as he did. That poor guy had many, many health problems. I think he knew that his life wasn't going to be a long one.

Yeah I'm surprised that guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Undertaker are both still alive with the physical abuse they took over the years. And their careers were about a long as Hulk Hogan's. The only real winner in that game is Vince McMahon who got to be a billionaire off of all their misery>> and didn't care for them at all.
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#29

Post by James Y »

JD Spydo wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:20 am
Good points you make Jim. But with the late 80s/early 90s WWF wrestlers that have such a huge mortality rate compared to the general public is just off the charts. Even little, gorgeous Ms Elizabeth who managed Macho Man Randy Savage is even dead which truly shocked me when I learned of it. The number of wrestlers from that era that are already dead is nothing short of astounding to me.

It's actually hard to make a list of wrestlers or managers from that era that are still alive. I'm kind of surprised that Hulk Hogan is still alive with all the steroids and other substances that he abused throughout his career>> not to mention the tremendous wear and tear he endured all those years. Even though Wrestling is fake for the most part they still get injured doing their performances. And some of those injuries are severe too. They said it was a minor miracle that Andre The Giant lasted as long as he did. That poor guy had many, many health problems. I think he knew that his life wasn't going to be a long one.

Yeah I'm surprised that guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin and the Undertaker are both still alive with the physical abuse they took over the years. And their careers were about a long as Hulk Hogan's. The only real winner in that game is Vince McMahon who got to be a billionaire off of all their misery>> and didn't care for them at all.

Joe,

I guess that people are affected differently. I have heard that Hulk Hogan has had a lot of health issues, and many operations on his back. Stone Cold Steve Austin was smart. He suffered a severe neck injury and retired…and he stayed retired. He never kept coming back for that “One Last Match” that people wanted him to have.

Some of those wrestlers, especially the old timers, don’t know when enough is enough. I hate seeing older wrestlers keep coming back, like Goldberg (AKA “Oldberg,” who never could wrestle a match longer than 2 minutes at most), and beating talented young guys that should be getting their pushes now. That’s why wrestling is in such a bad state today: Vince McMahon keeps bringing back these old geezers who were already old 20 years ago, and giving them pushes at the expense of younger, better talent. So there have been no big new stars being produced in over a decade. You cannot build new “superstars” by having current and upcoming wrestlers be crushed in 2 minutes by someone like “Oldberg,” who only comes around and wrestles maybe once or twice a year. “Oldberg” is also known to be a danger to work with in the ring; he’s known to have no control and injures those he works with.

The only old pro wrestler who is still good in the ring is Sting. He’s 62 years old, and can still keep up with the young wrestlers! He’s in AEW wrestling (not WWE) now, but mainly performs to help support and develop the younger talent. Sting actually looks like a 40 year old, at most.

Sadly, just recently, a female wrestler who went by the ring name Daffney (she’s on the list in the linked article in my last post) committed suicide, because she was dealing with severe CTE from all the wrestling she had done. She had worked in TNA/Impact Wrestling with my sister-in-law’s cousin, 'Roxxi,' who was also a female wrestler.

Former MMA fighter Ken Shamrock had briefly crossed over into WWF/WWE pro wrestling back in the ‘90s, but went back to real fighting. The reason? He stated that pro wrestling was far more physically dangerous than professional MMA fighting.

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#30

Post by James Y »

From AEW wrestling, a couple nights ago. Sammy Guevara vs Cody Rhodes. The last 9 minutes of the best ladder match I’ve ever seen; the entire match was about 23 minutes long.

I know that people will say it’s all fake. Obviously, these are performances and not actual fights; but the danger and the injuries these guys face are definitely NOT fake. It’s high-risk stunt work, performed in front of a live audience. Your average man would be hurt simply falling backwards in the ring from a standing position, let alone from the heights and in the ways these guys did. The entire match was about 23 minutes long. It’s pure escapism for me; the things I find entertaining don’t need to be overly-sophisticated.

https://youtu.be/Ya6SmGy-KIE

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#31

Post by kennethsime »

I watched pro wrestling in the late 90s and early 2000s, same as Rick - just long enough to realize it was fake, lol. Mostly WWF, but I did watch a little bit of TNA and some amateur wrestling also on late night local access.

My favorite wrestlers were Kane + Matt & Jeff Hardy. The TLC matches between the Hardy Boys, Dudley Bros, and Christian & his “brother” whose name I don’t remember were definitely the highlight for me.

I read Mick Foley’s book at one point - that was fun. He made Japanese pro wrestling sound absolutely bonkers. Barbed wire rings, barded wire bats, barbed wire fists… lots of barbed wire.
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#32

Post by James Y »

kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:46 am
I watched pro wrestling in the late 90s and early 2000s, same as Rick - just long enough to realize it was fake, lol. Mostly WWF, but I did watch a little bit of TNA and some amateur wrestling also on late night local access.

My favorite wrestlers were Kane + Matt & Jeff Hardy. The TLC matches between the Hardy Boys, Dudley Bros, and Christian & his “brother” whose name I don’t remember were definitely the highlight for me.

I read Mick Foley’s book at one point - that was fun. He made Japanese pro wrestling sound absolutely bonkers. Barbed wire rings, barded wire bats, barbed wire fists… lots of barbed wire.

Thanks for sharing, Kenneth!

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#33

Post by James Y »

AEW Wrestling

Here’s some highlights from a pretty extreme match last month. The blood was real. Note: Anyone who is squeamish about blood might be better off skipping this. This is one of my favorite “extreme” matches that ever aired in American TV.

https://youtu.be/m4y2LSqbwoo

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#34

Post by James Y »

MJF Drops Massive 'Pipe Bomb' in AEW (and on AEW President Tony Khan)

The most intense wrestling promo in years.

MJF (Maxwell Jacob Friedman) is the most bigger-than-life performer in pro wrestling today. He isn't flashy when he wrestles; he's not a really big guy; but he is rock-solid in all aspects of the game. He is the best 'heel' (bad guy in pro wrestling jargon), and he is THE ONLY pro wrestler who stays in character 24/7. Even at fan meet-and-greets, MJF never breaks character, and is downright rude to fans. This isn't him being obnoxious just to be obnoxious; he knows exactly what he's doing. When he says that he's the only wrestler who can make you FEEL, he's telling the truth 100%.

The reason that pro wrestling has been in the crapper for years is the lack of larger-than-life characters (and compelling storylines) across the board. MJF is exactly what pro wrestling has needed for YEARS...someone the audience can be invested in; someone who, like him or hate him, is "must-see" whenever he comes on. He also blends truths into his promos, and it can be difficult to distinguish between what is true and what is a 'work when MJF speaks. This is what makes him the best in the entire business today. If you're unaware of what's been going on behind the scenes, you might just think that MJF is some loud, obnoxious blowhard. If you do know, this promo will be seen for what it is; absolutely masterful, even though he legitimately took it too far at the end.

This promo was from last night; the last part, right before his mic was shut off for dropping an F-bomb, was edited out on TV, but this is the unedited version. This promo contains strong language. Note: a 'mark' is a fan, or fanboy, is wrestling jargon. He is calling Tony Khan a 'mark' because TK started out as a wrestling fan before founding All-Elite Wrestling (AEW).

https://youtu.be/RKew7BBTkRY

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#35

Post by twinboysdad »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:59 pm
I don't watch what is laughingly called "Pro" wrestling. I was a real wrestler in high school.
My son wrestles and has gotten pretty good, will be an upcoming ninth grader for our HS who is perennial state champs at highest classification. It has become my favorite sport by a large margin, even overtaking football that was my life in my youth. This was our first year doing freestyle and Greco and I still prefer to watch folkstyle by a large margin
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#36

Post by Doc Dan »

twinboysdad wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:12 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:59 pm
I don't watch what is laughingly called "Pro" wrestling. I was a real wrestler in high school.
My son wrestles and has gotten pretty good, will be an upcoming ninth grader for our HS who is perennial state champs at highest classification. It has become my favorite sport by a large margin, even overtaking football that was my life in my youth. This was our first year doing freestyle and Greco and I still prefer to watch folkstyle by a large margin
That's great your son is wrestling. It is a good sport. There is a lot of Judo and Jiu Jitsiu involved, as long as he hits the mat first. He will tell you that the football players that try out for wrestling usually go away crying. :grin-squint Some tough it out, but most don't. My coach was so hard on us that when I went to airborne training I did not have as much trouble as a lot of those guys, except that in itself got me into trouble! :grin-squint
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#37

Post by Cobblet »

I used to when I was kid in the Hulk Hogan & Iron Sheik days but not anymore. My dad ruined it by telling me it was fake and it just seems kind of silly as an adult what since we've got MMA with actual fights now. I know people that are into it really like it and it's about the theatrics of it all, but I can't get into it. I say that full well understanding that MMA and pro wrestling had some overlap in the early days and a lot of my MMA friends love it.
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#38

Post by James Y »

The Most Disturbing Wrestling Documentary You've Never Seen

I'm not surprised that the training to be a pro wrestler in Japan is physically, mentally and emotionally abusive, and often brutal. Look at Sumo; extreme abuse of junior trainees by senior trainees in Sumo stables has always existed.

https://youtu.be/Ki7YXFkhrKA

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#39

Post by James Y »

Oddly enough for me, I've mostly burned out of watching pro wrestling. Some tune out because the fights aren't real. I've known that since 1972, when I was 9 years old and first saw pro wrestling. It was pretty obvious. Pro wrestling is not Greco-Roman wrestling; it's not boxing or kickboxing; it's not MMA; it's not street fighting.

Pro wrestling is a unique type of live spectacle that should be about larger-than-life characters, with simple but interesting storylines that stimulate interest. Unfortunately, companies like WWE and AEW have gotten away from that, in favor of gymnastic stunts by mostly wrestlers with no personality, no mic skills, and no storylines. Very few are larger-than-life characters anymore, and haven't been for awhile now.

AEW has really gone on a downward trajectory.

Ironically, the wrestling show I really tune into is WWE NXT, which is a 'developmental' show for new talent coming into the WWE. Most of the storylines and characters (but not all) are more entertaining than most of what's on WWE's main roster shows (Raw and Smackdown). And way better than AEW's storylines. Even though NXT has lower ratings than WWE Raw, Smackdown, or AEW Dynamite.

I had quit watching WWE in favor of AEW sometime back, but have now gone back to watching NXT and Smackdown which, while not perfect, have been showing some improvements of late.

Booking (how a performer is used, what type of character he or she is, etc.) matters. It affects how a performer is perceived by the audience, whether they are a "babyface" (good guy) or a "heel" (bad guy). In both brands (WWE and AEW), many really talented performers with "superstar" potential are victims of bad booking, which makes them look terrible, and essentially ruins their marketability and their careers, if they end up looking for work in another company. Or they become "enhancement talent" (AKA "jobbers"), whose job is only to lose all the time to make others look good. Or they're on the roster, but not put on TV at all. Many standout performers on NXT end up languishing when they are drafted "up" to the main WWE roster, in large part because there are already too many performers on the roster. But mostly because in WWE, Vince McMahon pretty much decides whose careers he wants pushed on the main roster, whether they're popular or captivating to most of the fans or not.

Jim
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Re: Anybody Here Watch Pro Wrestling?

#40

Post by James Y »

You Know Wrestling is Fake, Right?

Video short below.

When people point out that wrestling is fake, I always answer, "Do you like movies? Or dramatic TV series? They're all fake, too."

The response of the heavyset guy is irrational, illogical, and childish. He knows (or should know) that the in-shape guy's response is spot-on, and he doesn't have a valid response by saying, "They're not the same." They are pretty much the same. The only difference is that one is over-the-top and in front of a live audience; and the other is filmed on a closed set, with as many retakes as necessary to get each shot just right, then is edited together to make a coherent story. If you hate pro wrestling, that's perfectly fine. But the way some people argue against it for being fake is pretty laughable.

Newsflash: Mark Hamill is not really Luke Skywalker. Clint Eastwood is not really a gunslinger. And Daniel Craig is not really a secret agent.

Pro wrestling is not a sport. It's not a real athletic contest. It's a scripted spectacle, performed live, featuring specially-trained athletes who perform dangerous stunts for which there are no retakes if they screw up. It's no mystery that the "fights" aren't real. Only a 2-year-old couldn't tell it's not real fighting.

But it's extremely hard on the body. I think it was Ken Shamrock who, after working in pro wrestling for awhile, returned to cage fighting, because, he said, pro wrestling is way more dangerous than MMA fighting. The top performers are in hard rotation for almost every week of the year; often multiple times a week for house shows. One mistake at the wrong time could result in serious or permanent, disabling injuries.

The average man or even athlete wouldn't be able to endure a simple, basic body slam or shoulder tackle, or run the ropes where they bounce off the ropes (steel cables). The mat in the ring has give, but it's actually wood covered in canvas, and I've been told that a basic fall onto the "mat" hurts, and is like being in a slow-speed car crash.

https://youtube.com/shorts/-iroNBaw7B8?feature=share

Jim
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