Primal instinct

[Fireman]

I know this may not be PC. How much is knives about primal instincts?
Males tend to be hunters and protectors and females gathers and nurturers with a bit of overlap. How much of this philosophy is a part of KOD (Knife Obsession Disorder)?

[kobold]

If it is natural or instinctive, then it can't be a disorder :-)

[James Y]

I don’t know about primal instinct. If it were, I would think that many more males in our society would be carrying knives than actually do.

IMO, people either have an above-average interest in certain subjects or things (for example: watches, cars, stamps, baseball cards, firearms, expensive clothing and shoes, knives), or they don’t.

Jim

[Christian Noble]

The foundation of man’s ‘first skills’ are cutting tools, fire and cordage. From these three things everything else can be built and as such why we have civilization.

Interestingly we RELY on these things today, but most people do not need, and therefore use, these skills today.
Cutting Tools; most matter is already separated for us by a machine or cut by a specifically designed tool.
Fire now comes through a copper wire or is under the hood of our vehicle or other machine; and,
Cordage, which once held man’s life together, has been replaced by the nail and adhesives.

All that said, knives are “in” some folks DNA and I would argue it is because of the fore mentioned. Being a practitioner of primitive living skills having attended many primitive skills symposiums and gatherings, I can attest to women being just as proficient with cutting tools — in fact some of the best hide tanners I ever seen are women.

Hope you don’t mind me taking the liberty here to share Larry Dean Olsen’s Philosophy of Caveman from his book Outdoor Survival Skills first published in 1967.

“It is asserted from time to time that true survival is measured by a person’s capacity to stay put and prepared with a super pack of hauled-in safe-gaurds; that learning edible plants and trapping and hunting skills are not necessary since most lost persons are rescued within seventy-two hours anyway. Without negating the wisdom of preparation and safegaurd, I would say that philosophy behind this modern dependency is still a dangerous one. Because of confidence and practice, when one learns to live off the land entirely, being lost is no longer life-threatening. Any manufactured item, such as a good knife or sleeping bag, then becomes a useful and appreciated luxury, but not a dire necessity!”

Things happen and when they do, almost always you only have what’s on your person — why anybody today would not carry a decent knife at all times is beyond my comprehension. It’s not Knife Obsession Disorder, it’s being smart.

Last factoid since we are talking primal instinct, ie, primitive which is derived from ‘prime’ meaning first…

The first knife was called the “OW! It happened when one of our ancestors accidentally cut himself with a rock for the first time and he realized the potential he could do in piercing things and separating matter.
“Hey Og, will you hand me that Ow, I need to cut something.”
“Ok, here, catch…”
“Ow!”

[Fireman]

Modern conveniences don’t take away our primal instincts from our neanderthal genes. Why do women like to shop and like purses? Gathering instincts?

[Bolster]

The foundation of man’s ‘first skills’ are cutting tools, fire and cordage. From these three things everything else can be built and as such why we have civilization....

That's really interesting. Knife to separate, divide. Cordage to bind together. Fire to cook, or destroy, to see, and to keep warm. All three, fundamental, basic ways to modify the environment.

For the record, I'm also interested in fasteners (screws, glue, rivets) and in fire (from electricity to flashlights to a bonfire). What does that say? And where is the forum for people interested in fastening and in fire?

[RustyIron]

If it is natural or instinctive

Puppy seems to be really happy about his collection of sticks.

[Doc Dan]

I think it is an obsessive compulsive disorder revealing deep seated phobias and childhood traumas creating severe borderline personality disorder or psychopathy.

[VooDooChild]

What I find interesting about knives is they are one of our oldest tools. The designs, history, and evolution of cutting tools is almost a window into the history of society.

[standy99]

I like knives due to spending 20+ years holding one for nearly 10-12 hours everyday cutting up cows, lambs, and pigs.
So many to choose from now compared to when I was a 1st year apprentice butcher 35 years ago…..

Nothing primal

[Evil D]

I don’t know about primal instinct. If it were, I would think that many more males in our society would be carrying knives than actually do.

I think this may show that just because you're male doesn't mean you're automatically a hunter, maybe there are just a lot more gatherers in society now. It could even show an evolution in our species where we no longer feel the need to hunt because food is so readily available. I think to get a better answer to a question like this you need to ask it of other cultures that don't live in abundance, people who still live off the land and can't stroll down to Walmart for their meat. This change started so long ago when the idea of buying instead of hunting/gathering started.



I would even say it's actually a result of our higher intelligence vs other animals, because hunting costs both calories and can involve risk, two things that mammals are wired to conserve and avoid. In the wild if a lion can bully his way in and steal a cheetah's kill instead of spending energy to hunt for themselves they'll do it every time. Humans are doing the same but we're intelligent enough to cooperate/trade for our goods. We've evolved to the point of being able (aka, being so successful) that we don't need tools like knives (our version of claws and fangs) to survive on a daily basis.

Of course, the problem is that at any given time we are only a step or two away from being in the right situation where food is no longer handed to us and we have to fend for ourselves. For the most part humans have found almost every conceivable way of cheating natural selection but it catches up to those who stray too far outside of our culture.

[bearfacedkiller]

Knife obsession disorder is more of a modern problem than a primal one. It is consumerism. We are driven to accumulate and some of us have chosen to accumulate knives because we find them interesting.

[eventhorizon]

Knife obsession disorder is more of a modern problem than a primal one. It is consumerism. We are driven to accumulate and some of us have chosen to accumulate knives because we find them interesting.

This. It's marketing. You're being manipulated. 2022 the global marketing sector will invest about seven hundred billion dollars (yup, that's a whopping $700.000.000.000) just to make you spend your cash...

It's basic psychology, "primal" if you will... some of us are more prone to fears and anxiety and those tend to gather things they don't actually need.

[JD Spydo]

Knife obsession disorder is more of a modern problem than a primal one. It is consumerism. We are driven to accumulate and some of us have chosen to accumulate knives because we find them interesting.

This. It's marketing. You're being manipulated. 2022 the global marketing sector will invest about seven hundred billion dollars (yup, that's a whopping $700.000.000.000) just to make you spend your cash...

It's basic psychology, "primal" if you will... some of us are more prone to fears and anxiety and those tend to gather things they don't actually need.

That's good advice "eventhorizon". Because the difference between "wants" and "needs" is really huge with all things considered. I used to be a major pack rat in my younger days. But for the past 20 years I've discarded, sold and given away so many of my belongings. If it is not something I genuinely need I don't keep it around anymore.

Having an abundance of material items is not "security" by any means.

With knives being essential tools it could be a high priority to focus on which tools you'll actually need and use.

[curlyhairedboy]

Not sure the breakdown of sex for hunters and gatherers holds up in nature; the females of many species are the dominant hunters and in many cases much more physically imposing.

I’d say a more common thread leading back to ancestral tool use comes from a desire to be prepared.

[eventhorizon]

Not sure the breakdown of sex for hunters and gatherers holds up in nature; the females of many species are the dominant hunters and in many cases much more physically imposing.

I’d say a more common thread leading back to ancestral tool use comes from a desire to be prepared.

The "desire to be prepared" psychologically derives from basic fears and anxiety... the more you perceive the world as an unsafe place, the more you strive for "safety" and want be prepared for an anticipated danger.

Usually that perception is shaped in your very early childhood and persists, but it can be manipulated throughout your whole life either by traumata or by constantly fostered foxnews fears.

[curlyhairedboy]

In the modern world, I definitely carry a pocketknife for convenience rather than fear of the unknown.

[eventhorizon]

Knife obsession disorder is more of a modern problem than a primal one. It is consumerism. We are driven to accumulate and some of us have chosen to accumulate knives because we find them interesting.

This. It's marketing. You're being manipulated. 2022 the global marketing sector will invest about seven hundred billion dollars (yup, that's a whopping $700.000.000.000) just to make you spend your cash...

It's basic psychology, "primal" if you will... some of us are more prone to fears and anxiety and those tend to gather things they don't actually need.

That's good advice "eventhorizon". Because the difference between "wants" and "needs" is really huge with all things considered. I used to be a major pack rat in my younger days. But for the past 20 years I've discarded, sold and given away so many of my belongings. If it is not something I genuinely need I don't keep it around anymore.

Having an abundance of material items is not "security" by any means.

With knives being essential tools it could be a high priority to focus on which tools you'll actually need and use.

Unfortunately this cognition runs contrary to modern capitalism and marketing. The latters' answer to the question "To Have or To Be...?" (Erich Fromm anybody?) is "to have". The correct answer, of course, is "to be".

[soc_monki]

I think part of it comes from our ancestry. Tools are what made us what we are today, and knives are an indespensable tool. You can create, destroy, survive with them. It is the foundation, the building block for so many other tools. With it you can make wedges to split logs, kill and clean an animal for food or use it to gather edibles.

A lot of people don't need them these days at least not in their daily lives. A lot of people use scissors to open packages (like my wife did until I got her a purple delica...) and scissors are just 2 knives bolted together! You don't even need metal to make a cutting implement. Glass, bone, rock. It's very primal at its core.

The craze today is accessorization. Some people have some wild, out there, very flashy knives. And don't ever actually use them. I prefer utility. Although I do like my carbon fiber... Compared to timascus or whatever people use for "full dress knives" it's plebian looking most of the time! However it's not the first time in history that fancy, unused knives or swords were created to show status, so it's not a new phenomenon.

I carry because I like to be prepared, not for defense or hunting, just to do my job or open something with as little effort as possible. I enjoy the engineering of a good tool, even a simple Becker fixed blade. The machining and crafting needed to build a good tool. The knowledge. I'd like to start making knives, and one day I may, but until then I'll just learn as much as I can.

Knives are just cool, period.

[Naperville]

...
Usually that perception is shaped in your very early childhood and persists, but it can be manipulated throughout your whole life either by traumata or by constantly fostered foxnews fears.

For some the issue is Fox News, for others it is other news orgs. But we are not here to discuss that. Politics is a verboten subject. So please keep those thoughts to yourself.