Rethinking handguns

[Doc Dan]

For years I carried a .45 ACP or 10mm (when they first came out) for personal protection when in town or in the woods (not AK). I later switched to 9mm Parabellum when bullet and powder technology made that cartridge more suitable. Still, handguns in these calibers are large and hard to conceal. I started carrying a small pocket .380 ACP in my pants pocket and used it to successfully defend myself from a pack of large, adrenaline charged dogs intent on my destruction. This gun had the advantage of being concealable and was of a size to always have with me. Still, as effective as the new .380 ACP ammunition can be, I want something that will more likely go bang everytime I pull the trigger. There is the .38 Special, but the ammunition for it has been marginally effective because it did not get the same advances other ammunition has gotten. That is odd because the .38 Special is probably the most popular handgun round.

Well, all of that has changed. There are now modern .38 Special rounds that make standard .45acp and 9mm ammunition look anemic. Some of it is now in the .357 Magnum range in power. There are companies that make 158 grain ammunition that moves out at 1250 feet per second for 548 ft lbs of energy. Now, that is some serious stuff and even a black bear would be dead meat if you needed to defend yourself while hiking. There are also lighter weight loads that are stepping out at 9mm +P+ velocities.

The guns for .38 Special can be had that are also chambered for .357 Magnum, if there is a desire for that. The guns can be had as light and nearly as small as a pocket .380 and they are dead reliable. Since they are so light in weight, a pocket holster is all that is needed and the gun can be with you everywhere you go. A Barami Hip Grip, or the ones made by DeSantis or Pachmyer, is a very concealable way to carry the small revolver.

So, thinking it over, if I were to be able to go to the store and buy a gun (cannot here), I would concentrate on .38 Special revolvers as the best bet for personal protection. I'd change the sights out to XS Sights Big Dots (tritium) as they are fast, fast, fast, and easy to see. This also has the advantage that my wife can easily shoot and reload the revolver. There is no slide to rack or to cause a jam if she limp wrists the pistol.

Yep, this 122 year old cartridge is better than ever. I think it is a superb choice for general defense and hunting.

[Evil D]

Remember that those numbers depend greatly on barrel length. You likely won't see that same speed coming out of a snubbie.

That said, for years people have repeated the same old argument that a .357 out of a snubbie won't have as much velocity as a .38 Special but that simply isn't true. It does lose velocity and energy vs longer barrels, but both rounds coming out of the same size barrels you'll still see a good bit more horsepower from the .357. Then the argument is made "well I can get .38+P+ and that's almost as good as .357" but then the same is true for the .357 so that's a moot point. The only question is, for you will the increase in recoil of a hot .357 matter enough to step down to a .38+P or not.



https://youtu.be/Ey6Wc2k99ho


https://youtu.be/5gQD-kc7sUA

My next purchase will all but certainly be a 340PD. It's inevitable at this point.

[bearfacedkiller]

I love airweight j-frames. My 360 isn’t anywhere close to as easy to carry as my LCP. When concealment and easy of carry matter the small .380s win. The best thing about the small wheelguns is reliability. Most pocket pistols have their moments and they can be picky about ammo.

Then you get into caliber selection. First, .38 +P is much more powerful than .380acp and on par with a 9mm out of a subcompact. The .38 will offer a much wider range of options for projectiles. If you get a j frame in 357 then 9mm cannot even compare. I have put hot 180 grain bullets through my 360.

Buffalo Bore got 1250 with that 158 gr. .38+p in a 6” GP100. They got 989 in a 340pd. Still impressive!

[Doc Dan]

It really is hard to argue with the new 38 +p+ loads from Buffalo Bore and Underwood. A 357 Magnum will be a little more powerful, but the blast and recoil are pretty fierce. I thought seriously about the heavier 32 Federal Magnum as it duplicates hot 9mm loads and you get o e more round in a revolver. It would make a great choice. I think the other two are more versatile, though.

I really liked my Keltec P3AT. It was reliable with everything that I fed it. I had a gunsmith put a silver shotgun bead on the front sight. However, my wife is smarter than me. She made me sell he S&W Lady Smith 9mmand get her a Bodyguard .38 because it was simple…nothing to remember but pull the trigger. I carried it some and liked it more than my Airweight.

[Nick D. Fingerz]

This works for me.



Charter Arms Bulldog. .44 Special, 3" barrel. Old school. Efficient.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have 180 grain .357 federal hollow points in my S&W 360 at the moment. A pocketable revolver that weighs 14oz that can sling 180 grain bullets is more than capable of getting you out of a jam.

The .327 federal magnum is appealing for the extra round but S&W doesn’t offer it so you have to get the LCR. I have been reloading .357 for years so I don’t really want to take on another caliber at this time but I may someday.

[Doc Dan]

This works for me.



Charter Arms Bulldog. .44 Special, 3" barrel. Old school. Efficient.

Yeah, that works, too.

[Doc Dan]

I have 180 grain .357 federal hollow points in my S&W 360 at the moment. A pocketable revolver that weighs 14oz that can sling 180 grain bullets is more than capable of getting you out of a jam.

The .327 federal magnum is appealing for the extra round but S&W doesn’t offer it so you have to get the LCR. I have been reloading .357 for years so I don’t really want to take on another caliber at this time but I may someday.

That about sums it up. Somewhere I saw 170gr +P .38 Special stepping out pretty good. A 158gr .38 Spec. at 1250 fps and 547 flbs of energy would put a hurting on anything I am likely to encounter in the lower 48. A 180gr .357 would end a bad guy or a hog or a black bear, no doubt.

[The Mastiff]

I carry more lightweight 38 snubbies than any other gun here because of the heat requiring very light clothing. One is a titanium framed one and it doesn't pull down my shorts even without a belt. I just wish it came with a 3 inch bbl instead of 2 inch. That extra inch makes a difference with velocity but IMO more importantly muzzle flash and noise. I used to have one with a narrow barrel 3 inch that was as easy to conceal as a 2 inch . I wish I still had it. The longer barrel pistols are easier to get good sight pictures with IMO. I agree that modern defense ammo has come along way. I trust revolvers more than autos for instant get into action but at times there is something comforting about my 15 round 40 Glock. I'm glad I'm not limited to just one.

[BLUETYPEII]

For years I carried a .45 ACP or 10mm (when they first came out) for personal protection when in town or in the woods (not AK). I later switched to 9mm Parabellum when bullet and powder technology made that cartridge more suitable. Still, handguns in these calibers are large and hard to conceal. I started carrying a small pocket .380 ACP in my pants pocket and used it to successfully defend myself from a pack of large, adrenaline charged dogs intent on my destruction. This gun had the advantage of being concealable and was of a size to always have with me. Still, as effective as the new .380 ACP ammunition can be, I want something that will more likely go bang everytime I pull the trigger. There is the .38 Special, but the ammunition for it has been marginally effective because it did not get the same advances other ammunition has gotten. That is odd because the .38 Special is probably the most popular handgun round.

Well, all of that has changed. There are now modern .38 Special rounds that make standard .45acp and 9mm ammunition look anemic. Some of it is now in the .357 Magnum range in power. There are companies that make 158 grain ammunition that moves out at 1250 feet per second for 548 ft lbs of energy. Now, that is some serious stuff and even a black bear would be dead meat if you needed to defend yourself while hiking. There are also lighter weight loads that are stepping out at 9mm +P+ velocities.

The guns for .38 Special can be had that are also chambered for .357 Magnum, if there is a desire for that. The guns can be had as light and nearly as small as a pocket .380 and they are dead reliable. Since they are so light in weight, a pocket holster is all that is needed and the gun can be with you everywhere you go. A Barami Hip Grip, or the ones made by DeSantis or Pachmyer, is a very concealable way to carry the small revolver.

So, thinking it over, if I were to be able to go to the store and buy a gun (cannot here), I would concentrate on .38 Special revolvers as the best bet for personal protection. I'd change the sights out to XS Sights Big Dots (tritium) as they are fast, fast, fast, and easy to see. This also has the advantage that my wife can easily shoot and reload the revolver. There is no slide to rack or to cause a jam if she limp wrists the pistol.

Yep, this 122 year old cartridge is better than ever. I think it is a superb choice for general defense and hunting.

I agree that revolvers are better for self defense than a semi-auto pistol. They are just more reliable and easier to use. However if I would have thought about it more I probably would have bought a .357. The main reason is you can shoot .38 or .357 out of it and it would be nice to have the option of a little extra stopping power for bear. However a .357 would be slightly heavier and I really appreciate how lightweight my S&W is.

[vivi]

what pocket 380's do you guys carry? i compared a s&w bodyguard to a ruger lcp2 last week. ergonomics were about the same for me, but the ruger had a much better trigger. leaning towards the lcp2 for a small go anywhere kind of carry.

[Doc Dan]

what pocket 380's do you guys carry? i compared a s&w bodyguard to a ruger lcp2 last week. ergonomics were about the same for me, but the ruger had a much better trigger. leaning towards the lcp2 for a small go anywhere kind of carry.

I had a KelTec P3AT, which Ruger ripped off. Perhaps they paid KelTec, I don't know. What I do know is the S&W Bodyguard .380 is harder to shoot for some folks and it is larger. I was very happy with the Keltec and it saved my bacon one day. So, to answer your question, I'd get the Ruger and get a good front sight, like an XS Sights Big Dot put on it.

When I mentioned the Bodyguard above, I was talking about the .38 Special revolver.

[Doc Dan]

While we are on the subject, let me say a word about sights. The front sight is all important and it needs to be easily seen. Lasers are fine, but what if i doesn't work and you need it? So, I like XS Sights Big Dot sights. On a larger defensive pistol I get the Express Sights version. On a small pocket gun, just the front sight in whatever color with tritium insert does fine. That sight will never cease to function. So, if I cannot use my laser because it is broken or the battery is dead or it will give my position away, the XS Big Dot is super fast, faster for me than a laser, and it is always on.

https://www.xssights.com/Handgun_Sights ... -8208.aspx Great product.

[paladin]

Pocket + Hand + Humpback = a good bit of concealable giddyup

nevermind the Ruger gun photobomb...it's a camerahog

[Ankerson]

The thing with .38 SPL and the .38 SPL +P and +P+ is they all can be loaded into older and or very light handguns and some may or may not be able to handle the increased pressure of the +P and +P+ ammo. So it's best to check with the manufacture to be certain the chosen gun can handle them. It's not just about it blowing up in your face, it's also about wear and tear and that can be greatly increased with the high pressure rounds. And controlling the recoil is also a factor. Anyone who has ever shot a 2.5" .357 magnum with full power loads in a med frame gun like a S&W Model 19 knows what I am talking about.

That said, the .357 Magnum with the Remington 128gr SJHP Magnum Loads is still one of the best, if not the very best load there is for defense against humans given the data of real world shootings.

Nothing wrong with a .380 ACP with the right defense loads.

I would still take a .45 ACP over just about anything personally for self defense carry loaded with the proper ammo.

If I was a LEO and had a choice it would be a .45 ACP without even thinking about it for my duty sidearm.

Remember it's not all about the max power as has been shown in real world shootings data. The most powerful rounds around are pretty useless against humans because they just pass right through. They look great on the spec sheets and help sell more ammo, but are way over powered for humans.

[Skidoosh]

Why not a .38 super?
I'll still stick to .357 in a revolver.

[shunsui]

Interesting thread.

Patiently waiting for the FBI to switch to .38 Special.

[TomAiello]

what pocket 380's do you guys carry? i compared a s&w bodyguard to a ruger lcp2 last week. ergonomics were about the same for me, but the ruger had a much better trigger. leaning towards the lcp2 for a small go anywhere kind of carry.

I have a Kahr .380, but I almost never carry it. I have carried the 9mm Kahr for years (since before there were any other options in that size category) and am quite happy with it, but although I've owned the .380 for a long time and do semi-regular practice with it, I have a lot less overall experience with the smaller one.

[shunsui]

A friend of mine carries a Sig 365 9mm.

I've had a chance to handle it and it is pretty nice.

If you want a small gun for EDC, you should look into it.

Lots of extras and options available: grips, mags, sights, manual safety, etc.

https://youtu.be/n29qgsP9B-E

[chuck_roxas45]

Never should have sold my Lady Smith...