Buying habits that harm small businesses

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Doc Dan
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Buying habits that harm small businesses

#1

Post by Doc Dan »

There was some guy bragging on BF about how he will buy knives that he intends to return to the place where he bought it. When people buy knives with the intention of returning them it puts a financial strain on the business that relies upon the sale of items to stay in business. Such a thing is unthinkable to my generation, but apparently the younger generations do not see a problem with this. Everything is free, isn't it?
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#2

Post by TomAiello »

Why would you buy a knife intending to return it?

What does he gain from doing that?
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#3

Post by Naperville »

Over the last 61 years I unsuccessfully returned a shirt (to Walmart) that I washed once and it self destructed! I did not have the receipt....where did they think I bought the shirt? It is the only thing I ever even tried to return that I can think of. 1st and last time I ever went to Walmart.

In any case, BF attracts bad apples.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#4

Post by JuPaul »

I very rarely return knives. Only if there's an actual defect or flaw, and even then I prefer to send it to the manufacturer rather than the dealer, if possible. If I just don't like something about the knife, I re-sell it and take the small loss. Imo, that's the cost of the hobby.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#5

Post by SG89 »

JuPaul wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:03 pm
I very rarely return knives. Only if there's an actual defect or flaw, and even then I prefer to send it to the manufacturer rather than the dealer, if possible. If I just don't like something about the knife, I re-sell it and take the small loss. Imo, that's the cost of the hobby.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#6

Post by Doc Dan »

I returned a Spyderco a long time ago because it was too slick for me and I nearly got cut (no guard), but that was the day after I bought it. I returned a knife years ago that was broken to the manufacturer and they fixed it for me and gave me an additional new knife to boot. That's it. I have a Spyderco Manix 2 that I need to send in because something is wrong with the lock, but I haven't done it yet because of the cost involved. That is it. Out of all of the knives that I own, those are the only ones I have ever returned, for any reason. When these people, and apparently there are a lot of them because I read them encouraging this behavior, buy and return, they put a financial strain on the company. Not only is there a lost profit from the sale, but the dealer has to pay taxes on that and may have already ordered a replacement and is out even more money.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#7

Post by SpyderGrill »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 pm
There was some guy bragging on BF about how he will buy knives that he intends to return to the place where he bought it. When people buy knives with the intention of returning them it puts a financial strain on the business that relies upon the sale of items to stay in business. Such a thing is unthinkable to my generation, but apparently the younger generations do not see a problem with this. Everything is free, isn't it?
Do you sit around and think of questions to ask this forum? Some things you bring up are ok, then you say hey, I want this knife, then what about this knife in this combo, heres my recipe, I want a pink knife for wife, now your worried about Bladeforums

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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#8

Post by ChrisinHove »

There’s nothing to fault about starting a discussion - isn’t that the point of the place?

I think it unreasonable to order stuff you have no intention of keeping, but on the other hand some retailers charge a premium for a no-quibble returns policy to help attract more hesitant purchasers, particularly in areas not served by a b&m store.

Here in the U.K. Spyderco are not only costly but very thin on the ground. This makes some purchasing decisions unattractive without a returns safety net.

To illustrate, and by pure coincidence, yesterday for the first time ever I met in person someone else who owned a Spyderco (who I hadn’t given it to!) and the first time in the U.K. that I have seen a Spyderco that I hadn’t ordered or purchased myself.

I must admit to having returned a couple of items. The retailer (and Spyderco) always gets my cash in the end, though.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#9

Post by bearfacedkiller »

The issue is that there is a trend to buy multiple of a knife you want and then cherry pick the best one and return the rest. I have heard many folks admit to this online. The knife community has a higher than normal rate of OCD in my observations.

I think it is selfish and wouldn’t do it. I would just buy one and exchange it if I wasn’t happy. If I had to cherry pick the best one I would buy multiples and sell the extras instead of returning them.

If I was a dealer I would only allow an individual a certain number of returns before I either stopped selling to them or started charging them a restocking fee. I would certainly lose their business but that is better than losing money. Shipping isn’t free and margins on retail goods are small.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#10

Post by RustyIron »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 pm
When people buy knives with the intention of returning them it puts a financial strain on the business
Financial strain aside, it's just plain dishonest. I'm tempted to say what I think about intentionally dishonest behavior, but I know the Spyderco Forum's mantra is something about walking barefoot across rice paper, and my harsh words would surely be a violation. Hopefully the guy over on that other forum will see the error of his ways.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#11

Post by James Y »

If there were some way I could know beforehand, and given a choice, I wouldn’t want a knife that had been returned to a dealer by someone like that. Because who knows what they might have done to it/with it while it was in their possession, knowing they weren’t going to keep it and not caring, anyway. It’s one thing if they had gotten the wrong knife by mistake, but IMO just ordering to see what it’s like and intending to return it isn’t right.

I think I might have seen that thread over on BF. IIRC, some other posters were taking the OP of that thread to task for it, and he wasn’t liking the fact that everyone wasn’t agreeing that he was perfectly entitled to do that.

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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#12

Post by JD Spydo »

I hope I'm not veering off in a different direction than this thread is intended to explore. But small businesses here in the USA ( and other areas of the globe) are in a really stressful time in our history as a nation. I try hard to support local "brick & mortar"/mom & pop businesses in many cases. Just yesterday I went and bought some new fishing gear at a local bait shop and sporting good store here in our home town. Sure I paid a bit more buying from them than I would have paid at the local "Rip-Mart" or some "online" monster. But I find I get much better service from a local mom & pop store than I do with the other options I mentioned.

Small businesses by and large are the glue that keeps this country prospering to a large degree. And the COVID problem has really stressed a lot of small businesses>> it's even bankrupted several of them too. I like Spyderco not only because they are a small mom & pop business in the big world but they are also a quality minded maker of great cutlery.. Sure the local Rip-Mart has knives cheaper but the quality is lousy and the customer service is a joke at best. It's business models like Spyderco has that has made this country great to begin with.

This is a time we need to support each other as fellow Americans during this stressful time. About the only time I ever go to Rip-Mart or any of the other bigger stores is when I can't get the item anywhere else. And Small Businesses are much more community minded than any of these corporate monsters are. You think that the CEOs of these monster corporations give a hoot about your local community? Yeah Right :rolleyes:
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#13

Post by Doc Dan »

James Y wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:45 pm

I think I might have seen that thread over on BF. IIRC, some other posters were taking the OP of that thread to task for it, and he wasn’t liking the fact that everyone wasn’t agreeing that he was perfectly entitled to do that.

Jim
They did and the mod closed it finally. However, that guy is not the only one over there that I have seen talking about doing it. The only reason he got shelled is because he was so in your face about it. The others never get taken to task.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#14

Post by Evil D »

I worked a lot of years in retail. Right now Amazon is singlehandedly crushing the retail world both online and brick and mortar. I do think it will come back around full circle though, it wasn't long ago that Sears Roebuck did the same thing with their ordering catalogs, and then we saw the invention of malls. Eventually people will want to go out and browse again.


But yeah people who buy only to do youtube "reviews" and then return the knives are kinda scummy.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#15

Post by Ankerson »

Doc Dan wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 pm
There was some guy bragging on BF about how he will buy knives that he intends to return to the place where he bought it. When people buy knives with the intention of returning them it puts a financial strain on the business that relies upon the sale of items to stay in business. Such a thing is unthinkable to my generation, but apparently the younger generations do not see a problem with this. Everything is free, isn't it?

It's no different than some women who would buy a dress etc. for some event then return it after they wore it once.

Happens a lot.

Customer service is a double edged sword. ;)

There will be always those who will take advantage of it, that's human nature.

If a business has a certain policy or policies in place then they in fact created their own problem.

And people will absolutely take advantage of it.

One way to slow it down is to charge a restocking fee, and make it high enough to curve the issue.

Will they lose a few sales or customers?

Yes they will, but in the end it will always even out in the long run. Just try to convince some people of that and they start panicking right away, OMG, lost sales, OMG.... :rolleyes:
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#16

Post by Doc Dan »

The stores here curb that by not refunding money unless something is wrong with the item. Instead, they give a store credit towards another purchase. That slows it down. I do not like it, though. A restocking fee is fair if the item was not returned for a defect.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#17

Post by Ankerson »

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:57 am
The stores here curb that by not refunding money unless something is wrong with the item. Instead, they give a store credit towards another purchase. That slows it down. I do not like it, though. A restocking fee is fair if the item was not returned for a defect.

There is a rather small percentage of total scum who will ALWAYS try and is looking to GET OVER.

However when OTHERS catch on to it as always seems to be the case that percentage will GO UP.

In the end it is best to curb those issues from the start and enforce the policies.

Remember thieves, people looking to get over and other types of low lives always scream the loudest and longest when caught. ;)
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#18

Post by JRinFL »

TomAiello wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:13 pm
Why would you buy a knife intending to return it?

What does he gain from doing that?
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#19

Post by DLTJordan »

There are a small number of people who try to use knife dealers as a knife library, engaging in large numbers of returns for store credit or exchange, then rinse and repeat to try and experience many different knives at minimal cost. Thankfully its a very small number of people.
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Re: Buying habits that harm small businesses

#20

Post by Cricket Bite »

I think it is difficult for those without a brick and mortar store close. Even if there is a local store they often do not carry all the models Spyderco sells. I am lucky to live near a reputable online retailer and can go and pick my stuff up in person. I recently got a Maple Chaparral and glad I was there in person. We looked at about 5-6 before I found a pattern I liked. Of course the Birds Eye Maple is unique but it still illustrates the point. In the end businesses have incorporated returns into the business model. I personally like knowing I can take a bit of a chance on something I have never had in hand. Also we should also consider how many things sold online are not “as advertised”. I would be purchasing a whole lot less if I did not have a solid return policy. Like in anything there will always be the ones who abuse the system. I don’t think you should throw the baby out with the bathwater just because of a few rotten apple ( mixing my idioms now:) ).

Also what do you consider abuse of return policy. What if you got something from online and it was what was advertised but not what you expected for example: The grip could be much grippier or slippery than you thought or there is a hotspot on your hand from it. or the color is not what it looked like online? Is this okay to return if not used? Is that abuse? What about getting several knives (different ones) and picking the one you like best (like you would do in a store) and returning what you don’t want as long as there are not used? Online retailers need to do this in order to compete with brick and mortar stores (although they usually have a price advantage already. IMHO there are so many grey areas here it is tough to say.
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