Spydercos & Guns

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vivi
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Spydercos & Guns

Postby vivi » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:34 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88952&start=40

Over in that thread there was some discussion about Spydercos and guns.

I wanted to continue that discussion here.

How do you peceive the new banner?

How do you view stock images on knife retailers with bullets, magazines or guns in the background? Does this image elicit a negative, positive or neutral reaction?

Image

I saw my first Spydercos in a gun shop. Bought my first one in a gun shop. Bought every subsequent Spyderco I've purchased in person at gun shops, save for what I've gotten from New Graham.

All my friends that are into knives are into guns.

Everyone I know owns guns, save maybe one or two folks. All my co-workers have their CCW, even the petite 100lb females.

I've never thought much about it either way until that thread. I've never viewed it as a negative or positive, just a thing that is. Like how you generally find Coke or Pepsi served at a diner, its just a pairing that has always been there for me so I never questioned it.

Do you think using gun related items in knive marketing material is tacky? Do you think its in poor taste? Or do you like seeing a company "support the 2nd?"

Or, like me, do you find yourself completely neutral? I like and own guns but seeing bullets behind a knife doesn't make me any more or less likely to buy it.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby soc_monki » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:45 pm

It's probably just to appeal to the tacticool crowd and convince them to spend money. Marketing tactic. I don't care either way, but I see what they're trying to do.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Henry_P » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:54 pm

Even though I do enjoy firearms and shooting as a hobby, I am neutral to this as well. It doesn't make my shy away from spyderco and it doesn't make me like it anymore either. I do think that a model with the name police being pictured with guns and ammo makes sense though. If bullets were pictured with say, a salt series knife, it would be a little confusing.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby PineyBoy » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:33 pm

As a firearm owner for many (60 years) and a knife maker, collector and user for many, many years, you all can do whatever you want, but I have never closely related guns and knives. Even in the Army there were knives and there were guns. You wanted to kill people it was a gun. A knife was a tool.

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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby JRinFL » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:52 pm

The tie-in used to be that hunters used both guns and knives so they were often pictured together, now everything has to have a "tactical" tie-in which has gotten out of control, IMO. In the case of the Spyderco Police, I am neutral on it. When it comes to sales, neutral is no better than negative.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby MacLaren » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:29 pm

I absolutely love the new banner.
I think it's a great look.
Heck, Spyderco ha such respect out there......I wish they would've thrown in an AR15 and old Smith and Wesson wheel gun too.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Wartstein » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:04 pm

I actually wanted to start an a bit similar thread, but more focused on cultural differences between Europe and the US (and other parts of the world) concerning how guns are perceived, but also other areas.

I said it in the linked thread already:

The perception of guns is most likely one of the biggest differences between US and European culture.
If, like MC Laren suggested above, Spyderco would choose to advertize and display their products together with an AR 15, this would certainly attract parts of the American customers. But here in Europe, most people would find it very strange and not appropriate, associate it with violence, a bit mad weirdos or that these knives are just for professional Military folks.
I know, this might offend some of the US members here, and it is not what I personally think (!), but it is just a neutral report how it is where I live in Europe, regardless if one likes this or not.

I really think most US folks can´t really imagine this if they have not lived here in Europe for a while.
And vice versa many Europeans do not know about the background of the US gun culture, especially not that it is more than just guns, but closely linked to insisting on a constitutional right (amendment). I just know and respect this since I watch a lot of US news outlets on youtube and am interested in American politics. But many here are not.

In Europe guns are just "not a thing".
- No one carries one, most don´t want to carry one, there is a vastly lower perceived need to protect oneself with a gun since there is almost no gun violence here (for example: In 2017 the homicides by guns were 45 TIMES (not percent, in percent it would be 4500 %!) higher in the US than in Austria / Europe where I live)
- Guns are also not a political issue at all here:
In the US, it very well might determine for which party one votes depending on how the position of the party on fire arms might be. In Europe most parties will not even have a position on this or all will have the same and no one cares.
This can even lead to unnecessary conflicts between US citizens and Europeans: If an European says that he is against guns, an American will often reflectively put him in a certain political spectrum or s ....uuups posted this to early. by accident, continuation in the next post.. :o
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby MacLaren » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:14 pm

Nice post Wartstein!
Very informative and interesting!
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Wartstein » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:20 pm

...continuation:

..... If an European says that he is against guns, an American will often reflectively put him in a certain political spectrum, relate to conflicts US pro and US anti gun people have, while the European will just not get that... there is no "background" for that, being against carrying guns is just the most normal thing and almost never part of any- ,let alone political discussion.

Again, this is not what I think, not MY opinion, but just how it is here.
Not the best example, but a bit like in most western countries no one even thinks about or defines women by if they are wearing long or short sleeved shirts, while in a more muslimic country it might very well be an issue.

I may copy and paste here what I said in that other thread:

There are two approaches to handle this cultural difference that is just there as a fact:
1.) Spyderco as a proud American company puts a very "American" banner on top of their forum, and guests from Europe or elsewhere are guests and have to appreciate a slightly different culture. Totally fine!
2.) Spyderco calculates a bit more how certain typical American things might be perceived in other cultures and adapt to this to some degree (also from a marketing point of view): Totally fine too, just two different approaches

/ I just want to encourage all my US friends here to keep in mind:

An European who is against carrying guns most times has not at all the same background and the same reasons as an US citizen who is anti gun.
It is just how it is here, how we in Europe all grew up, there is no such "constitutional connection" and history behind the gun thing as it is in the US. An "anti gun carry" European is just what most people here are, and not someone who does not respect your (US) right to carry a gun - many won´t even now that this right exists, and won´t understand why this topic can get pretty heated.
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Wartstein » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:25 pm

MacLaren wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:14 pm
Nice post Wartstein!
Very informative and interesting!

... It continues below the first part! ;) (pressed on "submit" accidently to soon...)

And let me add: Not only do I have probably a bit different views on the US gun culture as most Europeans since I watch a lot of US news and am into US politics and so see and respect the background.
Sure it also helps that I got to know quite some "gun people" on this forum and they are all really nice, helpful and responsible folks... :)... but many Europeans don´t have or don´t take such an opportunity, and in Europe you actually really DON`T get to know people who carry guns - there are none, at least where I live (except the Austrian cops, all issued with the Austrian gun Glock 19!! :D EDIT: It actually is the GLock 17 )
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby MacLaren » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:52 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:25 pm
MacLaren wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:14 pm
Nice post Wartstein!
Very informative and interesting!

... It continues below the first part! ;) (pressed on "submit" accidently to soon...)

And let me add: Not only do I have probably a bit different views on the US gun culture as most Europeans since I watch a lot of US news and am into US politics and so see and respect the background.
Sure it also helps that I got to know quite some "gun people" on this forum and they are all really nice, helpful and responsible folks... :)... but many Europeans don´t have or don´t take such an opportunity, and in Europe you actually really DON`T get to know people who carry guns - there are none, at least where I live (except the Austrian cops, all issued with the Austrian gun Glock 19!! :D )
The 19, Cool!
I have and prefer the 17 myself :D
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby The Meat man » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:58 pm

:D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
vivi wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:34 pm

Or, like me, do you find yourself completely neutral? I like and own guns but seeing bullets behind a knife doesn't make me any more or less likely to buy it.
This is my attitude, as well.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby vivi » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:39 pm

Wartstein, I appreciate the time you've put into your posts on the subject.

In this thread and the other, I don't think anyone was being disrespectful in the slightest. Just people from different cultures sharing perspective.

Here's some of my perspective on guns.

Growing up, most my friends and I received real guns of some sort from our dads or grandfathers before turning 10, and typically went out on our first hunting trip by this age too.

We got toy guns of some sort between 1-3 years old.

When I drive to my day job I pass a gunshop / grocery store combo and two ads for concealed carry classes.

When I pull into work I see two cars with "I vote pro gun" bumper stickers.

If I want to browse Spydercos in person, I visit a gun shop to do so.

If I want to browse camping & hiking gear, I visit a gun shop.

If I want to browse fishing or hunting gear, I visit a gun shop.

If I want to browse archery supplies, I visit a gun shop.

If I want to browse hiking boots, again, the best selections are often at gun shops.

When I was 18 years old I could walk into a gun shop and be the owner of a shotgun or rifle ten minutes later.

The first hand gun I bought I was 21 and walked in, picked it out, then 25 minutes laterI was in the woods target shooting.

Growing up me and my buddies would browse surplus Mosins and SKS's at gun shows.

We'd also buy/sell/trade guns privately between ourselves.

And of course we'd shoot them together too. We'd setup targets in the woods and make a day of it.

Where I've lived letting a 12-20 year old shoot a gun is way more socially acceptable than giving them a beer with dinner.

Most places I've worked had some sort of house gun kept in the office by the safe, in addition to the private ones employees carry in cars or CCW.

Its legal for any non-felon over 21 to open carry guns basically anywhere outside of government buildings and schools where I live. We have customers that carry to where I work every day of the week, and I see glocks on hips when I go grocery shopping.

-----

As far as gun crimes go, if you don't join a gang or kill yourself, chances are very low you'll encounter gun violence. Even after spending a decade doing security in various areas of varying risk levels, I've never been in any sort of shoot out.

I'm not a militia type or gung ho about having a stockpile to fight government tyranny, but I do enjoy the freedom of being able to arm my family for protection, and I enjoy target shooting as a hobby.
Last edited by vivi on Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby JRinFL » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:41 pm

My mother was born in Germany and was a young child during World War 2. She was always anti-gun when she was alive and it was primarily due to her wartime experiences. She was not alone in her generation to be anti-gun and anti-war. World War 2 left much deeper and longer lasting scars in Europe than in the US. Anything related to war, the military, etc, was and is very much looked on as a bad thing to be avoided. In the minds of many, guns equal armies, armies equal war, and therefore guns are bad. There are other older cultural differences as well, of course.

For myself, it could be a Meercat placed next to an FN Minimi and I would not be offended. It would not influence my purchasing in either direction, however.

Excuse my Friday ramblings.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Evil D » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:50 pm

I'm probably kicking the beehive and will surely regret this post, but I'm getting sick of being villainized for being a gun owner. I'm sick of being associated with people who commit violent crimes just because I'm a gun owner. Those who are against it, how would you feel (how WILL you feel) when your government comes for your knives? How do you feel being treated like a criminal just for carrying a pocket knife?

It's just funny when people draw a line and choose where they get offended, and don't realize that their own interests probably offend someone else. If everyone who gets offended got their way and got something removed or banned, we would all be stuck in a downward spiral of taking away each other's rights and happiness until we're all characterless drones with no personality or individuality left.


As for the banner, I couldn't care less. I honestly didn't give it a second thought until that thread. But, I also don't search out things to be upset with, and when I do see things I don't agree with I remember that I only control me and my actions and that others are free to do their own thing regardless of how I feel. We used to call that minding our own business but that's probably offensive now too.

Oh, and I think changing up the banner is a good idea regardless of all this nonsense, it's fun to keep things fresh and new. I just hope 1) Spyderco don't avoid these kinds of banners in the future just to cater to hurt feelings, and 2) we don't have to rehash this crap every time a banner comes up with evil guns/bullets in it.


You know what would be really awesome? I'm on a few Facebook groups where they hold monthly contests where people post pics and whichever pic gets the most likes gets to be the banner pic for that month. How cool would it be to have your pic as the forum banner pic? Or maybe we should just make the banner pic that month's pic from the Spyderco calendar?
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Naperville » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:19 pm

The Spyderco Forum header in no way bothers me, makes me feel at home.

I've owned around a dozen firearms in my life(handguns, shotguns, and rifles. I sold everything that I owned in 1999, and left Illinois for California's Silicon Valley in late 1999 on a Japanese supersport motorcycle.

On my return from CA, I have not purchased any new firearms, instead I've concentrated on prepping, survivalism and knife collecting($20k and counting). Right now I'm busy building out the knife collection and creating a martial arts DVD library and collecting books on prepping, and survivalism. I'm researching how and where to build an underground bunker.

As my signature says, I support many knife and firearm 2nd Amendment organizations. Always will, to the day that I die, even if I never own a firearm again. I have a pact with my brother that if either one of us is killed by an armed assailant that we will use the media to get the word out that we are a strong 2nd Amendment Family.

My brother is a 27 year Chicago Police Officer and he has the same attitude as I have toward firearms.
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights" and you should too!
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:25 pm

edited: I was way off topic :o

I like guns and like knife porn. I take pictures of guns and knives together. I like the pic.

As a marketing tool I think it makes sense with certain knives, especially if they are marketing to law enforcement or military. Many people who are into self defense also have an interest in firearms.

Does it work on me? I hate most marketing and like to think it doesn’t affect me.
Last edited by bearfacedkiller on Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby Naperville » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:46 pm

The people that disappeared under Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and Mao want their own 2nd Amendment now too.
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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby TomAiello » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:54 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:50 pm
I'm getting sick of being villainized for being a gun owner. I'm sick of being associated with people who commit violent crimes just because I'm a gun owner.
I'm with you.

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Re: Spydercos & Guns

Postby TomAiello » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:56 pm

I'm in the 'neutral' camp on advertising photos. Putting other things in the background doesn't really change my feelings about a piece of cutlery. That includes bullets, firearms, flags, maps, wilderness, fish, etc...they're all just scenery to me.


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