Who´d like to teach (me/us) proper English?!

[TomAiello]

In your this/that examples, they are functionally interchangeable. There is different nuance ("I want to try this too", for example, carries a sense that you are physically present observing someone else do it), but in basic function either is fine.

The difference between this and that is usually about proximity in either time or space (closer in time or space is this, further away is that) but when not comparing two things, they have effectively merged so that either is acceptable.

[TomAiello]

But there are quite a few words in our dialect for which there are just no real equivalents in high German.

Are there identical words with different meanings?

In English, these are some of my favorites. A toboggan, for example is a sled for use on snow (generally recreationally, by children) in most of the English speaking world, but is a knitted cap in the southeastern USA.

Then there are words that just vary by region. That wheeled basket that you use to hold your groceries while shopping, for example, is a trolley, buggy, cart...the list goes on.

[The Mastiff]

Proper English from Americans? :)

[JuPaul]

Another one I struggle with: "This" vs "that" and to what degree the terms are interchangeable...

Some examples:

- A.: "Sal, my new Endura came with a comp. lock. Can you explain this/that?"

- A.: "Sal, my new Endura came with a comp.lock!
Sal: "This/that is weird"

- A.:"I think I am going to fell a tree with my Endura"
B.: "Cool, I actually want to try this/that too!"

Basic rule: use "this" for pointing out something close to you. Use "that" for something far away, or to indicate something that was already mentioned.

Ex: My endura came with a comp lock. That sure is wierd.
Ex. This endura (in front of me) is brown, but that endura (over there) is green.
Ex. Gernot wants to fell a tree with his Endura. I want to try that, too!

[JuPaul]

To add to that last one...you'd use THAT to refer to something that was already mentioned or to something that already happened or hasn't happened yet. But you'd use THIS to refer to something happening right now.

Ex. I'm at Blade Show! This is awesome!
Ex. Remember when we saw Sal at Blade Show last year? That was awesome!
Ex. Someday Blade Show will happen again. That will be awesome!

[James Y]

Proper English from Americans? :)

In truth, Wartstein’s English (at least in written form) is already better and more comprehensible than the English of many Americans I know who only speak English).

Jim

[remnar]

Proper English from Americans? :)

That was my initial thought. :)

Being your typical American, I'll refrain from giving advice. After all, we don't want Rick to loose his mind.

[standy99]

Two things in front of you.

“I like this”
“But I don’t like that”

“ I will take that but not this”

In the distance

“Look at that”

In my hand

“Look at this”

English is a bastardised language from many languages so never worry about anything.

Being a Australian I always say I can understand and speak 4 languages
Australian
English
American
New Zealand

[ThomC]

But there are quite a few words in our dialect for which there are just no real equivalents in high German.

Are there identical words with different meanings?

In English, these are some of my favorites. A toboggan, for example is a sled for use on snow (generally recreationally, by children) in most of the English speaking world, but is a knitted cap in the southeastern USA.

Then there are words that just vary by region. That wheeled basket that you use to hold your groceries while shopping, for example, is a trolley, buggy, cart...the list goes on.

Excuse me, what ? A toboggan a knitted cap ? In French it refers to a park slide or a water slide... And the one you use on snow is a "luge"... But they're two very different things haha :D

[Wartstein]

EVERYBODY / EVERYONE/ANYBODY/ANYONE

Not always clear to me when to use which, and/or when two or three or all of the terms are interchangable:

Some examples that are quite clear to me:

- "I went to where Blade Show took place in 2019. But in 2020 there wasn´t anyone there" (Or: COULD you say "anybody" too??)

- "Do you know anyone who owns a red Millie with a CBBL?"

Then I assume that "everyBODY" could be a bit more appropriate for present situations? While "everyONE" is a tad more for past or future?

- "I am throwing a party for the forum members. Everybody seems to carry a knife"

BUT - "I plan on throwing a party for the forum members. I am pretty sure everyone will be carrying a knife"

Situations when it is not clear if "any..." or "every..." is correct or perhaps each of the terms would be?

I assume when I am referring to every single member of a group (or even every person in the world)without making any differences it is "every..."

- "I am throwing a party. Everybody can come "
- I am throwing a party for the forum members. Everybody can come" (BUT: COULD you say "Everyone" still?)

As soon as I make differentiations inside a group, is it rather any?

- I am throwing a party for the forum members. Anyone who likes thin bladestock can come (for I am a despicable blade-stock-racist :D ) Or COULD you still say everybody?anybody?

Example where I figure the terms ARE interchangeable indeed:

- Everyone benefits from carrying a knife
- Anyone benefits from carrying a knife

Does size of a group matter?

I am at the party for the forum members:

- There are 3 other members: "Does anyone know why Sal could not come?"
- There are 100 other members: "Does anybody know why Sal could not come?"

Is "any" perhaps a bit more "negative"?

- "Grabbing an Endura by the handle is great for everyone (=great for each single person who does this without exceptions)
- "Grabbing an Endura by the blade is NOT great for anyone" (= not great for each single person who does this without exceptions)
-

[Donut]

All of this goes out the window when you are in the south. :)

[Donut]

- "I went to where Blade Show took place in 2019. But in 2020 there wasn´t anyone there" (Or: COULD you say "anybody" too??) Yes.
- "Do you know anyone who owns a red Millie with a CBBL?" Anybody could also be used.

I would say anyone/anybody are almost always interchangeable, just use whichever sounds better to you.

Then I assume that "everyBODY" could be a bit more appropriate for present situations? While "everyONE" is a tad more for past or future? I don't think present/future makes a difference.

- "I am throwing a party for the forum members. Everybody seems to carry a knife"

BUT - "I plan on throwing a party for the forum members. I am pretty sure everyone will be carrying a knife" Both words sound fine.

Situations when it is not clear if "any..." or "every..." is correct or perhaps each of the terms would be? I think anyone would be more for pointing out that a single person could be doing something, everyone is that all of the people could be doing something. Everyone who brought a Salt knife will jump in the pool. Anyone who wants steak, but didn't bring a knife will not be given a steak knife.

I assume when I am referring to every single member of a group (or even every person in the world)without making any differences it is "every..." Yes, agree.

- "I am throwing a party. Everybody can come "
- I am throwing a party for the forum members. Everybody can come" (BUT: COULD you say "Everyone" still?) Yes, both words work.

As soon as I make differentiations inside a group, is it rather any? Anyone might bring a Sebenza, but everyone probably will not bring a Sebenza. :)

- I am throwing a party for the forum members. Anyone who likes thin bladestock can come (for I am a despicable blade-stock-racist :D ) Or COULD you still say everybody?anybody? You could, but it seems like a larger party if you say everybody.

Example where I figure the terms ARE interchangeable indeed:

- Everyone benefits from carrying a knife I would expect an argument why it would be beneficial for everyone to have a knife versus one person carrying a knife in a group.
- Anyone benefits from carrying a knife I would expect some specific examples for why one person would want to carry a knife.

Does size of a group matter? When I hear the word everybody, I picture 20 people or more, unless I know the size of the group. You ever hear the difference between, couple, few, many? They indicate specific ranges of numbers.

I am at the party for the forum members:

- There are 3 other members: "Does anyone know why Sal could not come?"
- There are 100 other members: "Does anybody know why Sal could not come?" Anybody/anyone interchangeable, suggesting that a single person will have the answer. Does everyone know why 8Cr13MoV doesn't hold an edge as long as CPM-S90V? This suggests that a single person (or more) might not know.

Is "any" perhaps a bit more "negative"? I don't think so.

- "Grabbing an Endura by the handle is great for everyone (=great for each single person who does this without exceptions)

I would say anyone would fit better here. Each individual case is great for that single person. I imagine you would have to analyze what happens to a single person to show that it is great. It's not like a group of people will be grabbing a group of Enduras by the handle at the same time.
- "Grabbing an Endura by the blade is NOT great for anyone" (= not great for each single person who does this without exceptions) This works.
-

It is probably similar to languages using male/female references to objects. It's hard to tell when something might be a single instance versus a group. I don't know a rule to simplify it, I feel like we are taught how to think for this.

[TkoK83Spy]

Proper English from Americans? :)

That was my initial thought. :)

Being your typical American, I'll refrain from giving advice. After all, we don't want Rick to loose his mind.

:eek: :mad: :) Hahahaa, you had to do it didn't ya!? As others have said, Gernot your use of the English vocabulary is pretty good as a non native speaker. I've seen it improve over time here as well. Very cool that you want to keep learning it though!

[TomAiello]

All of this goes out the window when you are in the south. :)

You should ask Wartstein how he feels about Swiss German. :)


And if you speak Southern, can you explain the difference between y'all and all y'all? I've been married to a Southerner for 15 years and I still can't figure that one out.

[TomAiello]

EVERYBODY / EVERYONE/ANYBODY/ANYONE

I think that the 'every' variant sounds more inclusive, and the 'any' variant sounds more voluntary.

'Everyone can come' implies that everyone will actually want to come.

'Anyone can come' implies that some people will choose not to attend.

- "I went to where Blade Show took place in 2019. But in 2020 there wasn´t anyone there" (Or: COULD you say "anybody" too??)

To me, they sound equally correct in spoken form, where 'anyone' sounds slightly more formal, and hence 'more correct' in written form.

Then I assume that "everyBODY" could be a bit more appropriate for present situations? While "everyONE" is a tad more for past or future?

- "I am throwing a party for the forum members. Everybody seems to carry a knife"

BUT - "I plan on throwing a party for the forum members. I am pretty sure everyone will be carrying a knife"

I think this is more of a formal/informal difference than a time difference. To my ear, they both sound the same in time, but the 'body' variant sounds less formal for written communication.

Situations when it is not clear if "any..." or "every..." is correct or perhaps each of the terms would be?

I assume when I am referring to every single member of a group (or even every person in the world)without making any differences it is "every..."

- "I am throwing a party. Everybody can come "
- I am throwing a party for the forum members. Everybody can come" (BUT: COULD you say "Everyone" still?)

As soon as I make differentiations inside a group, is it rather any?

To me, that sounds like a 'obviously, everyone will come' as opposed to 'anyone who wants to will come'. So basically it's a different of voluntarism. 'Any' implies that some people will choose not to. If I'm throwing a party and say 'everyone will come' it sounds like I'm pressuring people to show up, where if I say 'anyone can come' it sounds more like a general invitation with no pressure--I won't be offended if you'd don't show up.

Example where I figure the terms ARE interchangeable indeed:

- Everyone benefits from carrying a knife
- Anyone benefits from carrying a knife

Does size of a group matter?

Again I hear a voluntariness distinction. The first sounds like I'm saying that everyone _ought_ to carry a knife, where the second sounds like I think that it would be helpful, but I don't mind if you don't carry one. If I was leading a group of children on a camping trip for example, and wanted them all to bring a knife, I would say 'everyone will benefit from having a knife.' But if I just wanted them to know I thought it would be useful, but that it would be ok not to have one, I'd say 'anyone will benefit from having a knife.' So the 'every' seems to carry an implicit urging that in fact, every person ought to do this thing. Where the 'any' does not add that connotation.

I am at the party for the forum members:

- There are 3 other members: "Does anyone know why Sal could not come?"
- There are 100 other members: "Does anybody know why Sal could not come?"

I don't think so. To me, the group size is irrelevant to the word choice.


It's really interesting for me to hear the differences in opinion of native English speakers depending on where they live.


P.S. Has anyone else read 'Eats Shoots and Leaves?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_%26_Leaves

[Doc Dan]

The only time I get to use English as a language is in this forum.

I never actually talk in English (except perhaps for shortly explaining to some tourists how to get to Mozarts` birthplace or some sound of susic locations in the city of Salzburg... :rolleyes: ) and so I never, ever get corrected or can see the reaction of Native Speakers to what I say.

I figure it is the same for quite some more non-native-speakers in English here, and so I thought a thread where one can ask questions about proper grammar, use of words and so on would be nice.
Whoever of you native speakers cares to reply and explain (Doc, I think you even are an English teacher?!) please do so!
First question in the next post... :)

Sure, ask away. But beware, English will drive you crazy. (how does English 'drive' anyway?)

[bearrowland]

I'll second that. Even within the US, the various dialects and phrases will drive the insane batty :-)

[dsvirsky]

And if you speak Southern, can you explain the difference between y'all and all y'all? I've been married to a Southerner for 15 years and I still can't figure that one out.

"Y'all" refers to one or more specific people, while "all y'all" non-specifically includes everyone. For example: "Y'all need to stop fighting and shake hands." versus "All y'all need to get to shelter, there's a tornado coming."

[James Y]

Personally, I don’t allow all the regional dialects to drive me crazy. As long as I can comprehend the meaning, I’m fine with it. My own accent is boring, anyway; it’s the standard California American accent. Nobody in the world thinks of it as “exotic” or “sexy,” like an English, Irish, Scottish, or Australian accent, and even various other American accents.

And TBH, I try harder to communicate in as “correct” English as I can when writing, certainly more than when I’m speaking. But I can see how it could drive someone learning English nuts.

A couple things that I find a *little* bothersome; when people say “irregardless” when they really mean “regardless”. The “ir” is superfluous. Also when people say “I was in fear OF my life.” Were they afraid of living? They really meant to say, “I was in fear FOR my life.

Jim

[JRinFL]

The key thing to remember about the English language is its flexibility. It can be bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated and the average person will still understand you. It is not a language that requires everything to be exactly correct. For this I am truly thankful, otherwise no one would have been able to understand me over the years. :o

"All y'all" has become one of my favorite "Southernisms"!