Should military service be required?

[willc]

I said yes to the poll but I think everyone should serve in some capacity but not necessarily combat training.
Not everyone is cut out for that.

Also I think anyone who is an elected official should be a veteran.
You gain a different perspective on the world when you are forced to live, train, and sometimes die with people of other classes, races, and backgrounds.

I signed up when I was 17 cause I didn’t have many other options at the time and I don’t regret one second of my military service.

[VooDooChild]

I dont know. Given our large and diverse population I will say probably not.

However, I do think everyone should know what its like to do a job that you either dont want to do, or is difficult, or maybe just sucks.

They should know what its like to work hard for not enough. They should know what its like to deal with an Ahole customer so that hopefully they dont end up being one. They should know what its like to have to clean a public restroom so that they can teach their own kids not to destroy them. They should know what its like to be at work outside at 5 a.m. in the middle of winter.

I think a co-op class should be mandatory to graduate highschool. A class in your junior or senior year where you leave school early and go to a job that you have to keep and succeed at in order to graduate.

I guess what Im saying is that there are a few too many snowflakes now. There are certainly too many 20 somethings who have never worked. And since they have an education they wont do any job that they deem below them. Thats just a bad attitude. They end up with a lack of skills, a lack of character and perspective, and come off as an elitist when truthfully they have no life experience.

I guess the argument is the military would do these things.

Sorry to get off topic. As I get older, Im just seeing in this generation behind me, a lot of people who think they know everything, but have never even hammered a nail.

[James Y]

I dont know. Given our large and diverse population I will say probably not.

However, I do think everyone should know what its like to do a job that you either dont want to do, or is difficult, or maybe just sucks.

They should know what its like to work hard for not enough. They should know what its like to deal with an Ahole customer so that hopefully they dont end up being one. They should know what its like to have to clean a public restroom so that they can teach their own kids not to destroy them. They should know what its like to be at work outside at 5 a.m. in the middle of winter.

I think a co-op class should be mandatory to graduate highschool. A class in your junior or senior year where you leave school early and go to a job that you have to keep and succeed at in order to graduate.

I guess what Im saying is that there are a few too many snowflakes now. There are certainly too many 20 somethings who have never worked. And since they have an education they wont do any job that they deem below them. Thats just a bad attitude. They end up with a lack of skills, a lack of character and perspective, and come off as an elitist when truthfully they have no life experience.

I guess the argument is the military would do these things.

Sorry to get off topic. As I get older, Im just seeing in this generation behind me, a lot of people who think they know everything, but have never even hammered a nail.

I agree with this 100%.

I spent 6 years getting up at 4:30 a.m., 7 days/week, 365 days a year, delivering newspapers, from the age of 13. After high school, I also worked as a busboy at a Chinese restaurant, and as a janitor at a convalescent facility. I especially hated the latter two jobs. At the convalescent facility, I remember having to work two 8-hour shifts back-to-back a couple times. But I was saving up to move overseas; that was my motivation. That didn’t make me special; it did give me lots of experience in positions where many people considered you lower than dirt (if they considered you at all), the work was hard and often unpleasant, and the pay was low. There is no sense of entitlement.

IMO, all young people should have such experiences at some point in their lives. If the result is more better, well-rounded young men and women, this really isn’t going off-topic at all. Would having worked such “low-level” jobs be a 100% guarantee that it would make them better human beings? No, but neither would compulsory military service.

Jim

[bearfacedkiller]

There is a lot to chew on in this thread.

Uncle Sam has been taking a large chunk of my money every payday for years. That is where my right to vote comes from. The government works for the tax payers.

I don’t think I want a government run completely by soldiers. Having soldiers in the government is obviously a good idea for perspective but requiring military service to be an elected official sounds like a bad idea.

I will not fight in any war I do not support which is most of the wars in my lifetime. I would proudly serve in a war I felt was just and I think most people would.

I am not opposed to 2-4 years of military service in some form of public service. I don’t think anyone should be forced to fight.

I do believe that young adults need character building activities. I am not sure that military service is the answer for everybody. I think American values are degrading and could use a reset. I hope to instill virtue and character in my son.

[kerrcobra]

There is a lot to chew on in this thread.

Uncle Sam has been taking a large chunk of my money every payday for years. That is where my right to vote comes from. The government works for the tax payers.

I don’t think I want a government run completely by soldiers. Having soldiers in the government is obviously a good idea for perspective but requiring military service to be an elected official sounds like a bad idea.

I will not fight in any war I do not support which is most of the wars in my lifetime. I would proudly serve in a war I felt was just and I think most people would.

I am not opposed to 2-4 years of military service in some form of public service. I don’t think anyone should be forced to fight.

I do believe that young adults need character building activities. I am not sure that military service is the answer for everybody. I think American values are degrading and could use a reset. I hope to instill virtue and character in my son.

I agree with a lot of what was said by some folks, and I disagree with a lot of what was said by other folks. Darby sums it up nicely. I voted a hard no.

[vivi]

That was a good post. Summed up my thoughts too.

There is a lot of character building one can obtain from things like military service. But there's a big, big, big difference between someone going through basic and someone being shipped off to yemen, iraq or syria and destabilizing that country.

[OrangeShoes]

No - it should not be required. There are countries that don't have military and they are surviving. So I think this should not be mandatory.

[Ankerson]

There is a lot to chew on in this thread.

Uncle Sam has been taking a large chunk of my money every payday for years. That is where my right to vote comes from. The government works for the tax payers.

I don’t think I want a government run completely by soldiers. Having soldiers in the government is obviously a good idea for perspective but requiring military service to be an elected official sounds like a bad idea.

I will not fight in any war I do not support which is most of the wars in my lifetime. I would proudly serve in a war I felt was just and I think most people would.

I am not opposed to 2-4 years of military service in some form of public service. I don’t think anyone should be forced to fight.

I do believe that young adults need character building activities. I am not sure that military service is the answer for everybody. I think American values are degrading and could use a reset. I hope to instill virtue and character in my son.

Your right to vote comes from being a US Citizen.

As far as Elected Officials go I do believe they should have some sort of public service background, could be Military or other form of service before taking office. Could be LEO, 1st Responder, Fire Dept, etc. And the Military Service doesn't have to be career Military or even active duty, could be the National Guard or Reserves. Something other than being a career Politician their whole life. Something other than school, then Law School then into politics from there as MOST of them are.

As far as having to fight in a war, if one is in the Military they go were they are ordered to go. If their unit gets deployed to a war zone that's just the way it goes. They don't have any choice in the matter, they deploy with their unit. That's the gamble one takes when they sign the contract and join the Military. The Military isn't all rose peddles and chocolate or just a way to get money for College.

The all volunteer Military is a good thing.

[Naperville]

Being in the military does not necessarily mean having an MOS of a sniper, machine gunner or special forces.

Our military needs paramedics, doctors, programmers, hackers, nurses, engineers, so so so many areas where a person could be useful to their country. The best way to secure the MOS that you want is to have completed a degree before you go in and test in that area.

[yablanowitz]

I had to vote "No". I believe that the people who need it the most would resist it the most as well, so it would create more problems than it would solve.

[OldHoosier62]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3665840002

At the hospital, will elaborate on the above after I get admitted.

[snowbound]

No.

I enlisted in 1986. Most of our senior NCO’s were Vietnam era vets with quite a few having been draftees. My first 2 Platoon Sergeants and my first two 1SG were draftees who made a career of it.

They had nothing good to say about a draft Army. From what they told me nobody wanted to be there, discipline was difficult to enforce, drug use was rampant, and the mil was full of criminals and gang members. And I remember one of my Drill Sergeants (also a Vietnam vet) saying the Army wasn’t too concerned about safety because if anybody got hurt, there was no shortage of bodies to replace you. We certainly had our share of problems with an all-volunteer force, but they agreed we were better off without a draft.

I also did partnership training with the German Army back when they had conscription. We lived on one of their bases for two months. Good grief all they did was whine and complain about having to serve. Germany assigned them to the closest base to their home, they only worked 4 1/2 days/week, public transportation was free for military, and they were off duty at 5:00 PM every day even in basic training. Their bases actually closed at noon on Fridays. They all went home. We were there for 2 months so they had to leave a small detachment on base and keep the gates open because we were there (but they had cookouts and kept us drunk all weekend).

I take umbridge to those posting that people only join because they don’t have any other options. People join for all sorts of reasons. I had a full scholarship but chose to enlist. The military has its deadbeats, but it’s also full of motivated, creative, intelligent people who chose a different path for a variety of reasons.

I wouldn’t want to serve in a draft Army. We’ve been at war for almost 20 years with an all-volunteer force. If we can do that without a draft, why start now?

[Wartstein]

In Austria we still have universal conscription (for all male until 35years). And after it reserve service until 50 years (officer 65).
But we are a small and neutral country. And we have only 6 months duty now (former 8 months and earlier 9 months and more).
So you make the basic training and you're done.
I was 8 months motorist (truck) at the air force.
Learned a lot for life.

But you also can stay and get a professional.

As a fellow Austrian let me add to Markus´ post: We also have that civil/community service some mentioned earlier as an alternative to the mandatory military service. So every young able bodied male has to choose one or the other.

The community service at the moment is longer than military service (9 instead of 6 months) and can be completed in various forms, be it in a hospital, as a paramedic in a retirement home and so on.

Many choose the community service. Actually the system in Austria meanwhile relies on that civil service by young men to such an extent, that discussions about going from a mandatory conscription to the military to an exclusively professional army often end with: We can´t do that, since if the mandatory conscription to the military would be gone, also the many young men working in community service would be no longer available and the system would not work any more...

[AWOODILL]

I voted no. I think some sort of mandatory public service (ie Americorps etc.) would be great - if it was run correctly, but there is little chance of that in this country, so....
I had two combat deployments and can't imagine someone going through that who did not volunteer to serve.

[ChrisinHove]

In Austria we still have universal conscription (for all male until 35years). And after it reserve service until 50 years (officer 65).
But we are a small and neutral country. And we have only 6 months duty now (former 8 months and earlier 9 months and more).
So you make the basic training and you're done.
I was 8 months motorist (truck) at the air force.
Learned a lot for life.

But you also can stay and get a professional.

As a fellow Austrian let me add to Markus´ post: We also have that civil/community service some mentioned earlier as an alternative to the mandatory military service. So every young able bodied male has to choose one or the other.

The community service at the moment is longer than military service (9 instead of 6 months) and can be completed in various forms, be it in a hospital, as a paramedic in a retirement home and so on.

Many choose the community service. Actually the system in Austria meanwhile relies on that civil service by young men to such an extent, that discussions about going from a mandatory conscription to the military to an exclusively professional army often end with: We can´t do that, since if the mandatory conscription to the military would be gone, also the many young men working in community service would be no longer available and the system would not work any more...

That’s interesting. How is it regarded by its participants, in general? Is there much reluctance to take part?

[Doc Dan]

I spent 7 years total in the military and it did me a world of good. It taught me a lot of values such as doing what you have to do even if it is extremely hard; a good work ethic; responsibility; patriotism; discipline; life skills; and a whole lot more. In fact, many times I can see how someone deals with situations in life and I can tell whether they were in the Army, Marines, Navy, etc. or not.

[OldHoosier62]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3665840002

At the hospital, will elaborate on the above after I get admitted.

Sorry, doc's have been a bit busy with me last couple of days.

I voted No. I too was trained by Vietnam veterans who had absolutely no good to say about McNamara's "Project One-Hundred Thousand"... aka "McNamara's Morons". Some folks are just not cut out for military service... whether by lack of intelligence, poor attitude, inability to handle the physical or mental stresses.... For whatever reason.

As a Drill Instructor and later as an Ordnance instructor I saw it first hand. As a DI I was able to cull out those who exhibited an inability to adapt, perform, function in a military structured setting. Marine Corps bootcamp makes that fairly simple and back then (the 80's) it was a simple process to either recycle them for additional training to see if they were salvageable or to simple separate them as unfit for service. Not dead certain how it would work today but my friends still in say the system still works.

As an Ordnance instructor on a Army base it was much different. I had no trouble with the USAF, USMC or USN and CG students and if one failed an exam or practical test they were given additional training then retested and 90% passed on the second shot. BUT, if I failed a Army soldier and after retraining they failed a second time they were either just "pencil whipped" and passed along to the next phase or taken from the block instructors and retrained by another individual who was give a "they will not fail" speech... And low and behold, they passed. Often over the objections of the real instructors. It would seem that the Army never really got rid of McNamara's program. And these individuals weren't the ones who were trying to fail to get kicked out... Those we could manage and motivate them to do well, one way or another. The ones I am speaking of were simply not intelligent enough to master the very basics of military service or their MOS.

As to the article quoted above... 71% of eligible young people are disqualified from military service due to obesity, criminal records, drug abuse, poor education. ALL of these factors are a very sad reflection on this country's youth, the education system and child rearing ability. If we HAD to start a emergency draft we would be screwed.

[OldHoosier62]

Sorry, double tap.

[Ankerson]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3665840002

At the hospital, will elaborate on the above after I get admitted.

Sorry, doc's have been a bit busy with me last couple of days.

I voted No. I too was trained by Vietnam veterans who had absolutely no good to say about McNamara's "Project One-Hundred Thousand"... aka "McNamara's Morons". Some folks are just not cut out for military service... whether by lack of intelligence, poor attitude, inability to handle the physical or mental stresses.... For whatever reason.

As a Drill Instructor and later as an Ordnance instructor I saw it first hand. As a DI I was able to cull out those who exhibited an inability to adapt, perform, function in a military structured setting. Marine Corps bootcamp makes that fairly simple and back then (the 80's) it was a simple process to either recycle them for additional training to see if they were salvageable or to simple separate them as unfit for service. Not dead certain how it would work today but my friends still in say the system still works.

As an Ordnance instructor on a Army base it was much different. I had no trouble with the USAF, USMC or USN and CG students and if one failed an exam or practical test they were given additional training then retested and 90% passed on the second shot. BUT, if I failed a Army soldier and after retraining they failed a second time they were either just "pencil whipped" and passed along to the next phase or taken from the block instructors and retrained by another individual who was give a "they will not fail" speech... And low and behold, they passed. Often over the objections of the real instructors. It would seem that the Army never really got rid of McNamara's program. And these individuals weren't the ones who were trying to fail to get kicked out... Those we could manage and motivate them to do well, one way or another. The ones I am speaking of were simply not intelligent enough to master the very basics of military service or their MOS.

As to the article quoted above... 71% of eligible young people are disqualified from military service due to obesity, criminal records, drug abuse, poor education. ALL of these factors are a very sad reflection on this country's youth, the education system and child rearing ability. If we HAD to start a emergency draft we would be screwed.

I went through USMC Bootcamp in the early 80's.

There was one EX Army guy in my platoon, transferred from the Army to the USMC.

And yeah all 3 of my DI's were from the Vietnam time, one saw combat.

[MacLaren]

Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in the place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.
-SOCRATES, 5TH CENTURY BC
Its quite comical to hear the age old criticisms of today's youth. Especially considering they are a reflection of ourselves, lol......