Advice for new knife designers

[kriscole]

Hey everyone. I’m new to using a forum, but a huge knife and gun nut. I’ve done countless hours of internet scouring for info that it seems is overly bountiful here. This is very very exciting for me so I just want to say that I’m grateful to be here. That being said, I could use some insight. I am an aspiring knife designer as well as knife maker. I can do a lot of custom work to existing knives, but I’m trying to do more. I really want to be able to design knife parts and get them made with the intention of putting together a full folding knife. I want to be able to work on my own lock designs so I can put together a “model” that I could possible recreate to sell eventually. That all starts however with a way to get multiple parts produced as in liners and all the other misc. parts it takes to assemble a full knife. Does anyone know where to start with a task like this? Is there a way that can be more efficient than me making my own stencils, cutting them out different metals And trying to hand make every part that could be made easily with some computer programming and a cutting machine? Anyways, some general direction would be nice. Thank you!

[TomAiello]

Have you thought about 3d printing the parts, so that you have a computer file that you can continue to tweak, and parts that you can assemble into a functional scale model?

[VooDooChild]

Get a good CNC machine. It wont be cheap. From there you can make a lot of what you need.

[Naperville]

Regardless of the skill set that you have, I think reading and understanding knife engineering a bit would be important so I would say, buy and read every page of Larrin's new book:

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/07/22/ ... -geometry/

[Ric]

I would start small.
First with a fix blade. Get ergos right. Handle shape, sharpening, heat treat,...
Maybe start with a wood model first.
A knife is tiny and a few mm off can make a hugh difference. Precision is important.

Learn and evolve.

What's the benefit of your knife lock?
What is better than other solutions?

The Siren took many month (maybe 1-2 years) to make. Many prototypes were built.
Similar with yojimbo.

Ben needed around 1 year for his Banter, maybe more. Together with WE knives. Both are no newbies.
The ant lock came 1 year after the announcement.

Means it's not easy to build a new knife.
But also not impossible.

Just start and progress.
Keep us updated please.

Good luck

[Mike Blue]

There is nothing new under the sun.

Start here: The Tower of London Moat: Archaeological Excavations 1995-9 (Historic Royal Palaces Monograph) Paperback – Illustrated, 15 May 2004

Step-by-step Knifemaking: You Can Do It! by David Boye

The Wonder of Knifemaking by Wayne Goddard

How to make folding knives by Ron Lake

The bottom three books are a few of the oldest on my shop shelf. They aren't the latest-greatest but the knife world owes them respect for what they put into print when there were no knife books.

The Tower of London moat book has a chapter on the cutlery they dug up. It supports my debate point that there is no new knife design.

[TomAiello]

Thanks for the references Mike. I've become obsessed with making scales and I suspect that making blades may be the next step in my downward spiral. I just ordered all three of those books.

I also found this one, which might be useful to other people similarly situated:

https://smile.amazon.com/Wayne-Goddards ... 538&sr=8-1

[Mike Blue]

The Tower of London excavation was a complete surprise when I first learned of it. It settles, in one piece of evidence, the argument about originality of knife design. But there are other museums that help that too. The other three books (you ordered), I consider the basic starting set for anyone who would ask me what they need to know. The first two definitely for fixed blades and Ron Lake's book is excellent.

I forgot to add a reference to Bob Engnath. There was a copy of his shop catalog online somewhere. At the time, it was the best Book on how to make knives. He was a prolific grinder. There was also a collection of his blade patterns somewhere. Google will be great help.

Yes. Wayne's 50 dollar knifeshop is well worth it. I know some very famous and successful makers whose tooling is leftover or repurposed motors etc.

There's no point in buying a CNC milling machine only to make a few sets of scales per year, unless you're already in the machine shop business and need one for other things. But if your business grows it might justify the cost and write off.

[ShawnL]

Regardless of the skill set that you have, I think reading and understanding knife engineering a bit would be important so I would say, buy and read every page of Larrin's new book:

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/07/22/ ... -geometry/

Great info thanks!

[SpyderNut]

A lot of good suggestions here. The cool thing is, one really doesn't need much to get started in knife designing or even knifemaking. CAD is a wonderful tool, but it isn't necessary. I still prefer to draw designs by hand using paper and pencil, but that's just a personal preference. Purchase a decent set of French curves and some sketch paper and start doing some sketches. The first attempts may be rough, but don't get discouraged. Let your creativity shine. I'd lean towards doing fixed-bladed designs first and then trying some folders. I'd also try making some knives out of wood like Ric mentioned (you can even whittle them into shape, if you prefer). This will give you some valuable insight on design. After that, you can move on to the "real" materials and will likely have a better feel for the process. Mike has some excellent advice on getting the knifemaking books too. If you can find a copy of Bob Terzoula's original book, that would be a great asset. (That book will basically walk you through step-by-step on how to make a folder). I don't have a copy of his new book yet, but I'll bet it would be an excellent reference too.

[kriscole]

Thank you for the book recommendation. I definitely will read it!

[kriscole]

I would start small.
First with a fix blade. Get ergos right. Handle shape, sharpening, heat treat,...
Maybe start with a wood model first.
A knife is tiny and a few mm off can make a hugh difference. Precision is important.

Learn and evolve.

What's the benefit of your knife lock?
What is better than other solutions?

The Siren took many month (maybe 1-2 years) to make. Many prototypes were built.
Similar with yojimbo.

Ben needed around 1 year for his Banter, maybe more. Together with WE knives. Both are no newbies.
The ant lock came 1 year after the announcement.

Means it's not easy to build a new knife.
But also not impossible.

Just start and progress.
Keep us updated please.

Good luck

I will definitely update. I’ve actually made substantial progress on an old Western brand fixed blade that I am “restoring”. It was my grandfathers. My father gave it to me two months ago. The blade had deteriorated quite a bit, and it has a leather stacked handle that was falling apart. I’ve already cleaned up the blade and actually reshaped it. I successful put a good edge on it. By reshaping I mean cut away the existing edge because a lot of it had chipped away and made a completely new blade essentially. I’ve cut and restocked leather strips for the handle. I’m getting parts tomorrow to glue it together so I can then do the work to finish the knife. I’ll post pictures if I can when I’m completely done. I’m making a leather sheath for it and re gifting it to my father. He has no idea I’m doing any of it. This alone has been a major learning experience. I’m eager to take the next step and make a full fix blade from scratch. I’m actually debating using a file for the blade. Anyways, thank you for the feedback and support! I really do appreciate it.

[kriscole]

There is nothing new under the sun.

Start here: The Tower of London Moat: Archaeological Excavations 1995-9 (Historic Royal Palaces Monograph) Paperback – Illustrated, 15 May 2004

Step-by-step Knifemaking: You Can Do It! by David Boye

The Wonder of Knifemaking by Wayne Goddard

How to make folding knives by Ron Lake

The bottom three books are a few of the oldest on my shop shelf. They aren't the latest-greatest but the knife world owes them respect for what they put into print when there were no knife books.

The Tower of London moat book has a chapter on the cutlery they dug up. It supports my debate point that there is no new knife design.

Thank you for the recommendations! I agree that there are no “new” knife designs as far as making a new style of knife. However, there are always new versions of existing knife styles being designed everyday. Hence why we all love so many different spyderco knives. I see the respect and love for Chris Reeves and I know that I have the ability to create special knives that people will love. Even if I make very few pieces by hand, and I don’t sell them for much profit, it’s something I’m excited to share. I’ll definitely read your recommendations. I’m excited to see what knowledge they shared. I can only begin to imagine what they found. Thank you for the recommendations!

[kriscole]

The Tower of London excavation was a complete surprise when I first learned of it. It settles, in one piece of evidence, the argument about originality of knife design. But there are other museums that help that too. The other three books (you ordered), I consider the basic starting set for anyone who would ask me what they need to know. The first two definitely for fixed blades and Ron Lake's book is excellent.

I forgot to add a reference to Bob Engnath. There was a copy of his shop catalog online somewhere. At the time, it was the best Book on how to make knives. He was a prolific grinder. There was also a collection of his blade patterns somewhere. Google will be great help.

Yes. Wayne's 50 dollar knifeshop is well worth it. I know some very famous and successful makers whose tooling is leftover or repurposed motors etc.

There's no point in buying a CNC milling machine only to make a few sets of scales per year, unless you're already in the machine shop business and need one for other things. But if your business grows it might justify the cost and write off.

Yeah I’m not planning on getting a milking machine. Don’t get me wrong, I will love the day where I have an operation that will justify it. However right now the scales I enjoy making are not metal. My favorite is actually carving them from wood. Hand sanding and such. I’ve actually ordered all the materials I need to make a mold of the standard size g10 scales for a para 3, and I’m going to make epoxy and resin scales on different colors and designs that I shape by hand. I’m using the process basically identical to how custom 1911 grips are made. I’m going to start with standard scales and do skinny mods and different variations of that. I can use my drill and dremel if needed. No where close to needing a cnc machine like you said.

[kriscole]

A lot of good suggestions here. The cool thing is, one really doesn't need much to get started in knife designing or even knifemaking. CAD is a wonderful tool, but it isn't necessary. I still prefer to draw designs by hand using paper and pencil, but that's just a personal preference. Purchase a decent set of French curves and some sketch paper and start doing some sketches. The first attempts may be rough, but don't get discouraged. Let your creativity shine. I'd lean towards doing fixed-bladed designs first and then trying some folders. I'd also try making some knives out of wood like Ric mentioned (you can even whittle them into shape, if you prefer). This will give you some valuable insight on design. After that, you can move on to the "real" materials and will likely have a better feel for the process. Mike has some excellent advice on getting the knifemaking books too. If you can find a copy of Bob Terzoula's original book, that would be a great asset. (That book will basically walk you through step-by-step on how to make a folder). I don't have a copy of his new book yet, but I'll bet it would be an excellent reference too.

Thank you! This is actually how I do everything now. The most tools I use are a dremel, and sometime a drill and table saw to cut rough outlines. I’ve actually been blessed by not having much to start with. I got very proficient at using the bare minimum which developed my crafting skills. Hours upon hours of sketching, cutting, wielding, sanding, and even polishing have gotten my confidence up so when I do graduate to bigger tools I’ll be ready. I’ve even learned how to do leather stacked handles on fixed blades which I plan to use on some of my first fixed blades that I full make myself. I seriously appreciate your advice.

[kriscole]

I’m sorry I was so delayed replying to everyone. Thank you so very much for your feedback, knowledge and support. Like I said, I’m new to using forums and didn’t even know that you had all replied. I hope that my replies post so that each person can see I responded to them.