Vital info on dealing with the legal aftermath of self-defense.
I’ve read MacYoung’s book, What You Don’t Know Can Kill You, as well as another of his books, In The Name Of Self-Defense. Anyone interested in the subject of SD should read them.
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Jim
If you buy Kindle books, Marc MacYoung has a 4 book series on "Writing Violence" for just $11. I read some of each and it was very good, highly recommended! If you want the low down on getting attacked, stabbed or shot, they're great.
Vital info on dealing with the legal aftermath of self-defense.
I’ve read MacYoung’s book, What You Don’t Know Can Kill You, as well as another of his books, In The Name Of Self-Defense. Anyone interested in the subject of SD should read them.
...
Jim
If you buy Kindle books, Marc MacYoung has a 4 book series on "Writing Violence" for just $11. I read some of each and it was very good, highly recommended! If you want the low down on getting attacked, stabbed or shot, they're great.
Thanks for the heads-up on the books. They look interesting. They’re going on my list. I have read a book by Rory Miller entitled Violence: A Writer’s Guide. Though I find Marc MacYoung’s writing style to be a bit more ‘colorful’.
At the moment, I can’t justify buying any new books (even on Kindle) until I’ve read through the stack of books I accumulated during lockdown last year and early this year. I’ve been slowly reading my way through them. I also eventually plan to get Doc Dan’s latest book, as well.
Me, performing double jumping front snap kicks. In Northern Kung Fu systems, the practitioner often uses the palm of the hand to slap the instep on high front kicks. In the photo, I was slapping both insteps at the same time.
Bottom pic:
In “Pu Bu” (sometimes translated as Drop Step, Slant Step, or Crouching Step) stance. It is the same stance in the photo of me doing Cha Quan (Cha’s Fist) on the previous page, just the hand positions are different. This position is very common in Northern Kung Fu systems, especially Chang Quan (Long Fist)-based systems. Traditionally, the Tanglang (Northern Mantis) system was connected to Chang Quan, with Chang Quan serving as the basic, foundational training, before specializing in the Mantis system. The Chang Quan helped to ‘open up’ the beginning practitioner’s range of motion, and develop expansiveness, strength, and flexibility. In contrast, the Mantis system’s movements and principles are more compact, close-knit, and aggressive. The principle being that if you can develop large, exaggerated, expansive movements, you can also shorten them up; but the opposite is not necessarily true. In some Northern Mantis lineages taught outside of Taiwan, there is little or no connection with Chang Quan.
Chang Quan/Long Fist taught in southern China and Hong Kong was often referred to as “Northern Shaolin,” even though many Chang Quan styles had no connection to the Henan Shaolin Temple.
Note: This “Pu Bu” stance is a transitional position, and is NOT a static “fighting pose.” It is the same transition my friend Kuo Cheng-Ting shot into and rose up from, striking my groin area with his shoulder when we sparred, as I described in my post about him on the previous page. His entire body moved in, and his forward leg had shot in between my feet as he had me backing up. It’s very difficult to describe, but it happened in a split second. His moving into and rising up out of it happened so quickly and so smoothly it caught me completely by surprise, and is something I’ve never seen anybody else even attempt (much less pull off successfully for real) in sparring.
Rory Miller's book "Violence: A Writer’s Guide" looks good too.
These books are different in that they tell you what it is like to get punched, kicked, stabbed, cut or shot.
Thanks. I’ve had plenty of experience in getting punched and kicked (even sucker-punched one time), but luckily not stabbed or shot. Sounds like really good stuff, even if I’m not interested in using the info to write books.
Note: I do NOT consider myself a master, and the opinions I post in this thread come from my own experiences and observations. But I have spent a bit of time in and around the martial arts since the 1970s, so I’m sharing some of the observations I’ve gleaned over the years, for whatever they’re worth. Maybe someone will read them and find something useful for themselves.
Many people in martial arts (especially teachers) are enamored with students who display “natural talent.” Students with “natural talent” seem to pick things up very quickly, move really well, even with minimal experience, and progress rapidly. In my years of having trained in several different martial arts, I have seen several people who showed natural aptitude from the start. These were NOT always people who had previous experience in other arts, but who simply had that natural athleticism and aptitude. I, myself, always picked martial arts up very quickly, and was able to easily adapt to different martial arts styles or methods, if I was truly interested.
That said, I have met others I call “super-potentials.” These are very rare individuals whose natural talents are a level above those with natural talent. I refer to them as “super-potentials” (from now on, referred to as SP’s), rather than “natural talents” (from now on, referred to as NT’s), for a good reason.
While SP students tend to display amazing aptitude and potential early on, in my observation and experience, most are usually lazy, and quickly lose motivation. Because everything comes so easily for them, they rarely develop the motivation to push themselves through barriers (self-imposed or otherwise), or deeply examine what they are doing. This creates a mental block to growth; unless, of course, they were never really interested in the first place. Because no matter who you are, there are ALWAYS new limitations you must transcend to get to the next level, and I am NOT talking about “belt rank” levels (if your art has them). I’m talking about levels of understanding, actual ability, and experience. Because someone may look and move like a million bucks, but in truth still have only a dime’s worth of ability. Potential only means anything if it’s developed and nurtured.
I have seen very, very few people I would consider SP’s who actually pushed themselves and analyzed what they were doing. One perfect example, whom I obviously never met, was Bruce Lee. It was very clear that Bruce Lee was a SP who continually pushed himself and was never content to sit on his laurels. Another example was Peng Han-Ping, my second Mantis teacher in Taiwan; he also worked very, very hard at it. There are others, like my aforementioned friend Kuo Cheng-Ting, but again, very few.
Although early on I was pegged as a so-called “natural” at martial arts myself, I still really worked at it. There were always some aspects that were challenging for me, and my OCD forced me to push myself to overcome those challenges, to the point that, in my younger years, I sometimes overtrained and got sick (caught colds more often than normal).
TBH, I have more faith in people with so-called “average potential,” or even what some may call “below-average potential,” if they are serious and passionate about learning and bettering themselves, than so-called naturals. I believe I have seen more such people actually go on to become great martial artists than NT’s, or even SP’s. Because those who were passionate about it really wanted it badly enough to persist at it.
Also, SP and NT can only take you so far. And they have a “use by date.” I’ve seen some students who showed early NT and SP who lost motivation fairly early and drifted away. Then a couple years later returned, trying to pick up where they left off. Whereas before, during their initial run, they were confident, even cocky; now they appeared to have lost their confidence and coordination, and were acting moody. It was as if all of that early potential they previously showed had evaporated, and soon after they would drift away again.
In a physical activity like martial arts, NT and SP have a “use by date.” If you have it, you must develop and nurture it. Otherwise, it will abandon you, and often fairly early in life. To develop and nurture it requires passion and motivation. So IMO, the only real potential is, are you truly motivated? If you are, then don’t give a second thought to comparing yourself to NT’s or SP’s. Develop yourself, and don’t worry about others. All you need to reach for is YOUR OWN potential and become a better you, which may be greater than you can imagine. And if you persist at it (whatever it is, not just martial arts), you have the potential within yourself to surpass others’ (or even your own) expectations.
If given the opportunity, I would have studied with all of my martial arts instructors for another full year or more. I had nothing but an exceptional time and got along tremendously well with everyone while training, but afterward politics crept into some of these relationships after I had concluded training. Some of them may think that my reasons for leaving were not good enough. I did my best to maintain relationships.
Because I had studied so many arts, when students asked about me some Guros and Masters called me the "Hidden brown master" (A well known Filipino Martial Arts Guro said this) or the "The entry level student with the knowledge to defeat our advanced students" (Hapkido brown belt said this). Believe me, I am not that good but the comments were appreciated! At this time I'm totally out of it, so those days are gone.
I have been in martial arts since I was 9 years old. I don't hold any black belts, but have defeated several in sparring. Belts are not the reason for staying and training. Yet, I'd like to have achieved one. The reason why YOU would stay (if economically and health wise could stay) would be the camaraderie and knowledge.
If I had the opportunity to study given the plethora of excellent arts now I'd dabble in Gracie BJJ, Judo, 2 or 3 Arnis/Escrima arts, and Kyokushin Karate. Ask me tomorrow and I may have I different answer.
IMO, in terms of fighting, effectiveness trumps being technically “good.” I’ve known a few men in my lifetime who had absolutely zero formal martial arts or fight training; not even in combat sports like boxing, wrestling, or etc., but who were more effective real fighters than many high-ranking black belts I’ve seen. These guys didn’t train and they didn’t spar; they didn’t even have many tactics or options. They simply had tons of experience in real fights, usually involving setups, sucker shots, etc., to where it was second nature. Most of them were not troublemakers at the time I knew them, but if they needed to take action, they could turn it on like a light switch. All of them had come from rough backgrounds. They may not have won a sport fight in the ring, or in a ‘cage match’; but in a bar, the street, a dim stairwell, or in a dark alley, they would have prevailed over most men.
For me, beyond a certain point, training in the different arts that I did became more about gaining experience, enjoyment, and accomplishment. It was never about the belts. I earned my 1st degree black belt in Kenpo at age 17, and continued training. A few years later, I moved overseas. After I returned to the States from Taiwan in 1993, I took up Choy Lee Fut (CLF), and eventually achieved 2nd degree black sash in that. In truth, Chinese martial arts traditionally do not have belt ranking systems. Neither of the Kung Fu schools I trained at in Taiwan had belt rankings; the belt (or sash) was worn around the waist to hold the internal organs in place to protect them during torquing movements. My CLF sifu had instituted the sash ranking system in his own school. CLF is the art I still specialize in to this day, although I’ve kept other things (some skills, tactics, etc.) from the other arts that have worked for me throughout the years.
In my mid-40s, having experienced Judo as my first martial art as a kid, I trained for a year at a BJJ academy, just to experience more of the ground game. I never had any intention of staying permanently. And I got what I wanted in that year. Of course, even the amount I learned of BJJ’s ground game was more extensive than the ground game I had experienced in Judo, but much of it was similar or the same (they share the exact same root, after all). BJJ specializes in floor grappling, whereas Judo specialized in the throws, with some ground grappling. The BJJ academy was the last actual school I joined and trained in.
In the end, we are the culmination of our experiences.
A friend of mine here in CA who’s a LEO, and in his younger years had lots of street fighting experience, had worked as a bodyguard, and is also a private Mantis-style instructor (different lineage from my Taiwan lineages), has told other people in the martial arts about me that I’m difficult to figure out and “dangerous” in terms of fighting. I don’t know why he would consider me dangerous (because he’s a better, more experienced fighter than I am), other than the fact that we used to spar each other regularly, and I held my own up to a point. And if he thinks someone “sucks,” he’s the type that doesn’t mince words; he’ll say it to the person’s face, and then he’ll tell other people about it, too. He has no filter at all. I don’t know if I’m “good” or not; that’s not for me to decide. Maybe it’s more that he wasn’t disappointed when we sparred (he has often claimed disappointment when sparring other martial artists, including some who were famous names in the martial arts magazines).
But whether someone thinks I’m good or not, for myself, I wouldn’t be the person I am today without martial arts, even though I haven’t been training to the same degree I used to. But I keep on plugging away at it. It’s also helped me to deal with extremely challenging situations in life that have absolutely nothing at all to do with fighting or SD. And at a certain point, it became more about inner growth and accomplishment, which is a very personal thing.
Not totally martial arts-related, but I’m posting a few pics (two here, and one in the next post), taken during a visit to the Chinese Culture and Movie Center in Shilin, a district of Taipei, Taiwan. This was a reproduction of an ancient Chinese town that was used as the sets in countless period Kung Fu and wuxia (martial hero, or swordsman) movies, as well as TV series, in the 1970s, until around the late ‘80s. The vast majority of Taiwanese (as well as many Hong Kong) Kung Fu movie productions during that period were filmed at least partly at this location, including some of Jackie Chan’s early starring roles. Donnie Yen’s very first movie, Drunken Tai Chi, was also filmed there, the same year these pics were taken (in 1984). These sets were Taiwan’s more rustic alternative to the more immaculate indoor and outdoor sets of Hong Kong’s Shaw Brothers Studio. For more than a decade, literally hundreds of Kung Fu movies were filmed there; Don Wong Tao, a Kung Fu movie actor, estimated the number at upwards of 300 movies a year(!). The movie center allowed visitors when there was no filming.
Unfortunately, as was usually the case, I was so intrigued at being there and seeing (and being in) the sets that I neglected to take more photos, which I should have done.
In the first pic, I’m sitting in an unadorned sedan chair, that was probably sat in by either beautiful princess or arch-villain characters in various Kung Fu films.
In the second pic, I appear ant-sized in the distance, in a partial view of the town; the photo was taken by a friend who was standing atop the reproduction city gate/city wall. Notice the modern buildings on the hill outside of the sets. Of course, during filming, the angles were kept such that the modern buildings were never seen.
Jim
Last edited by James Y on Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:03 pm, edited 16 times in total.
Another shot of me at the Chinese Movie and Culture Center movie set. I’m standing at the entrance of the reproduction city gate/wall. Seen in numerous Kung Fu movies that were filmed in Taiwan.
Lee Morrison: Turning newspapers and magazines into improvised weapons.
I’ve long been aware of the general concept of using a rolled-up magazine, or other common paper items, as improvised weapons. My second teacher in Taiwan, Sifu Peng, once showed how to create a fairly rigid, pointy fist spike by folding a paper money note in a particular way (which I’ve long forgotten). TBH, I hadn’t really given the concept much thought. IMO, the way Lee Morrison shows making improvised paper weapons takes the concept to a whole new level.
The only possible drawback may be that not as many people nowadays actually read physical newspapers anymore, and the printed magazine publishing industry is practically on life support. But there are still places where I’m sure that free magazines are readily available, such as airplanes, waiting rooms, etc. And there are random catalogs and other junk mailings that come in the mail, which would probably serve just as well, if they’re at hand in a pinch. At least the knowledge itself is invaluable to have in one’s ‘toolbox.’
I recently had to travel to the SW US to retrieve a vehicle and bring back to SE US, and flew there. That grossly limited my EDC. We hauled *** with the vehicle as the drive was over 5 states. I grabbed a free real estate magazine at a rest stop that was very thick, solid, and high quality. Rolled it tight and slapped the rubber band I brought on it. My family member who was with me asked “why do you keep bringing that magazine everywhere we go”, oblivious as would be most anyone that the magazine had been weaponized. Had time allowed I would have purchased something with a blade or hammer tool along the way, but time was truly of the essence. The ride through Memphis with the I40 bridge out did make me wish I had brought a firearm
I recently had to travel to the SW US to retrieve a vehicle and bring back to SE US, and flew there. That grossly limited my EDC. We hauled *** with the vehicle as the drive was over 5 states. I grabbed a free real estate magazine at a rest stop that was very thick, solid, and high quality. Rolled it tight and slapped the rubber band I brought on it. My family member who was with me asked “why do you keep bringing that magazine everywhere we go”, oblivious as would be most anyone that the magazine had been weaponized. Had time allowed I would have purchased something with a blade or hammer tool along the way, but time was truly of the essence. The ride through Memphis with the I40 bridge out did make me wish I had brought a firearm
I had almost forgotten about the time I used a groin slap in a fight. It was in high school. A bigger, taller kid had gotten me in a headlock from the front, and I immediately slapped his groin, squeezed, and pulled a bit. I did not twist it, though. He immediately released the headlock and went to his knees. He cursed a bit, but never wanted to fight me again, because I fought dirty.
My Kenpo Karate teacher would slap your groin during sparring if you had it open, even if you were standing sideways or at an angle to him, which is one of the reasons you always wore a proper athletic cup. He would fake high, then drop his weight down and slap your groin, quick as a cat. Or if you didn’t kick fast enough, he had different ways to kick or slap your groin while your leg was up. One of the reasons that, although I used to practice high kicks, I never considered them for self-defense, but they were fine in sparring. I was one of the very few people in our Kenpo school who could *on rare occasions* land a head-high kick on my teacher during free-sparring, while avoiding getting slapped or kicked in the groin, or having my leg caught and taken down. You had to be very sneaky and quick, or don’t even attempt it. With all that risk, why even try it at all? To see if I could! :D If you could land a head kick on HIM, you could land one on almost anybody in sparring or competition.
But enough rambling and back to the subject…
This video is interesting. Just my own opinion, but it would be better if the instructor in the vid kept his fingers and thumb together, instead of separated out. He probably has more experience at this than I do, but just sayin’. If the attacker’s thighs are close together, or not positioned at a perfect angle to you, with your fingers splayed apart, one or more of your fingers could get caught and bent back on his thigh, his pants, etc. With the fingers and thumb all kept together, the hand is more compact and would fit into that space much more easily; the fingers would be more protected; and the slap, grab and pull would be more concentrated. Again, this is not a criticism, and I’m not trying to be a know-it-all; this is just my personal opinion, and perhaps something to consider, FWIW.
Beating A Dead Horse: The 1967 Bruce Lee/Vic Moore speed contest controversy (VIDEOS BELOW).
First off, although I am a fan and admirer of Bruce Lee, I am not a Bruce Lee “fanboy,” and I do not believe he was the greatest martial artist ever, nor that he was a god-like being. He was a man; a very talented man, but also a human being, with flaws, just like every other human being.
Much has been made about the “speed demo” controversy that occurred at the 1967 Ed Parker’s Long Beach International Karate Championships between Bruce Lee and Karate champion Vic Moore.
TBH, I think it’s much ado about nothing. The only one still making much ado about it is…Vic Moore. And his followers. It was a speed demonstration being given by Bruce Lee, and Vic Moore either volunteered (or was volunteered) to be the one to try to block Bruce Lee’s hand. As demonstrations go, it wasn’t even a good one.
Firstly, it’s clear from the video of the film that Bruce Lee was not punching, he was throwing a finger jab. Secondly, Lee’s hand never even came close to touching Vic Moore; it stopped short by maybe two feet. Thirdly, even with Lee’s hand never coming close, Vic Moore still could have blocked it, but he failed. You can also tell by Vic Moore’s body language when they shook hands afterwards that he knew he failed to block Lee’s hand.
IMO, the demonstration meant nothing, but it certainly meant a lot to Vic Moore. It is clear that his ego is still bruised over it, even more than 50 years later. He’s told anyone who will listen that “I beat Bruce Lee.” He even says that before participating in the demo with Bruce, they (he and his fellow Karate fighters) referred to Bruce Lee as “the movie star.” And while Bruce Lee had been a child actor in Hong Kong, none of them knew that. The only acting they would have known Bruce Lee to have done by 1967 was as Kato on the TV series The Green Hornet. So he wasn’t the “movie star” in 1967. Bruce Lee didn’t make his first martial arts movie until 1971, four years later.
This is a perfect example of a martial artist with a galaxy-sized ego, who cannot admit when they fell short, and/or inflate the importance of occurrences, and/or flat-out lie about occurrences to inflate their own sense of self-importance. Vic Moore was a great old-school Karate fighter, but his continual pettiness over such a tiny little thing of no importance has lessened his stature in my eyes. It shows that even though he has disdain for Bruce Lee, that sure hasn’t stopped him from riding Bruce Lee’s coattails for decades by claiming “I beat Bruce Lee.” There was no fight, so Vic Moore didn’t “beat” Bruce Lee. And Bruce’s hand never actually touched Moore, so Bruce Lee also didn’t “beat” Vic Moore. But clearly, Vic Moore is still bitter about it, and is probably bitter that he, Vic Moore, never became a world-famous, household name, like Bruce Lee did.
The first video below gives Vic Moore’s perspective. There have been others who were friends of Vic Moore who have confirmed his claims of the incident. However, there are also others (not in the video) who were present that day whose recollections have disputed Vic Moore’s claims.
In the second video, Reginald Stroud (who is one of those exceedingly rare, humble, respectful, and reasonable martial artists), and who actually knows (or knew) Vic Moore, puts the entire meaningless controversy in perfect (and honest) perspective.
Bruce Lee was better than your average martial artist in the 70's. He poked, prodded, scolded and gave us MMA.
Was he a champion martial artist? NO. But he studied enough to see that no single art is the answer and his philosophy was pretty solid.
Bruce Lee definitely got the ball rolling towards acceptance of MMA in the West, but I fall short of crediting him with originating the concept. In China, for example, Tanglang Quan (Mantis) and Choy Lee Fut were hybrids of multiple, pre-existing martial arts, integrated specifically for combat effectiveness. These are only two examples. Kajukenbo was founded in Hawaii in 1947, and was a combination of Karate (“KA”), Judo/ Jujutsu (“JU”) Kenpo ((“KEN”) and boxing (“BO”). My Choy Lee Fut sifu was a Kajukenbo black belt in the early 1960s, before he studied Choy Lee Fut.
Many (if not all) martial arts that are considered “traditional” are actually hybrid, or “mixed” martial arts.
Today, “mixed martial arts” has been appropriated to mean only the sport of MMA (BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing and wrestling). But IMO, the term “mixed martial arts” means any combination of martial arts that make up a system of training. In fact, combining the best from different martial arts is as old as martial arts themselves.
In terms of the first televised MMA bout, it was NOT UFC 1 in 1993, but rather, it was the 1963 bout between “Judo” Gene LeBell and boxer Milo Savage, which LeBell won by choking him out. Gene LeBell is highly respected in the martial arts world, and taught grappling to many famous martial artists. Some of the famous martial artists and fighters he trained included Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Robert Wall, Richard Norton, Benny Urquidez, Gokor Chivichyan, Karo Parisyan, and Ronda Rousey. LeBell also reportedly choked out Steven Seagal, causing Seagal to soil himself. Seagal disputes it, but of course he would. :rolleyes:
In the video, it’s interesting how Milo Savage is given some leeway for losing because he was “past his prime.” If the ages had been reversed, and had a younger boxer KO’d an older Judo man, the boxing pundits would have gleefully proclaimed their man KO’d a Judo “master,” and that”Judo is a fraud.”
James, you've lived quite the martial arts life and life in general getting to train abroad. I would totally credit Gene for mma in America though.
Also speaking of Mixed Martial Arts. I know it's just a movie but Ip Man would often fight without an audience. I think it was more than to be respectful of the other master's pride but also I would think a lot of styles wanted to keep their techniques. Once you see something someone can figure out how you did it. The more they see a move done the easier it will be to discern how. Of course we have a huge advantage being able to record everything now.
