Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#801

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:37 pm
James Y wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:25 pm
...
Don't underestimate anyone.

Jim
The reason why I'm alive is I give everyone respect and a wide berth.

Me too! 🙂

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#802

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:38 pm
Zhang Weili got KO'd when she lost her UFC title, but before that she had torn through everyone she fought. Of course, she also had to train in standard MMA. But it was her Sanda that was the basis of her becoming an excellent fighter.

Doesn't FMA have empty-hand methods as well as weapons?

Jim
There are several. But because FMA is all over Asia there is no set empty hands methodology, there are entire arts wrapped around the weapon arts. The Dog Brothers for example use Kali Tudo. Philippines Arnis uses Sikaran, Panantukan, Dumog .... Kali uses....KALI.
Last edited by Naperville on Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#803

Post by James Y »

MMA didn't start gaining wide mainstream acceptance among average people until around 2002 or so. Then MMA gyms started popping up everywhere. Then 'everyone' started calling themselves 'cage fighters.' MMA is composed of BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, and wrestling. Anyone who uses/incorporates any skill set from any art outside of those four basic methods is considered "unorthodox."

I was never interested in MMA, but I did train in BJJ for a year in my mid-40s, just for the experience and for the fun of it. It brought back memories of Judo floorwork. That was the last
"new" art I ever studied. I don't need to study any more systems, just continue refining what I already have and have decided to keep.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#804

Post by James Y »

To clarify, I am not appointing myself the defender of Chinese martial arts. There are some individuals in the CMA community that I can't stand, including some Choy Lee Fut people.

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#805

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:57 pm
To clarify, I am not appointing myself the defender of Chinese martial arts. There are some individuals in the CMA community that I can't stand, including some Choy Lee Fut people.

Jim
Jim, I really like you. I did not mean to start a bru-ha-ha with you. There are just a handful of martial artists on here and you have a lot more training than me. But I'm better looking. :winking-tongue

No seriously, from everything I've seen, if you know boxing, kickboxing and BJJ, you stand a chance of defending yourself in and out of a ring AS A YOUNG MAN. As you said, MMA really took off after 2000. I took up escrima/arnis so that no matter what age I was, I'd have some training to defend myself. I do not think those martial arts are for guys older than 55, YMMV, everyone has a different overall fitness that allows them to use what they know.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#806

Post by James Y »

[quote=Naperville post_id=1623525

Jim, I really like you. I did not mean to start a bru-ha-ha with you. There are just a handful of martial artists on here and you have a lot more training than me. But I'm better looking. :winking-tongue

No seriously, from everything I've seen, if you know boxing, kickboxing and BJJ, you stand a chance of defending yourself in and out of a ring AS A YOUNG MAN. As you said, MMA really took off after 2000. I took up escrima/arnis so that no matter what age I was, I'd have some training to defend myself. I do not think those martial arts are for guys older than 55, YMMV, everyone has a different overall fitness that allows them to use what they know.
[/quote]


It's all cool, Naperville. No brouhaha here! 🙂 I'm a simple practitioner, and put myself above no one. I just had to point out that it's not only CMA that haven't proven themselves in UFC/MMA, at least AFAIK. I do seem to remember one Silat guy who fought in one of the early UFCs, maybe the 2nd one, and IIRC, he lost.

Bodies vary. I've seen footage of some older (some very old) former boxers who beat the **** out of young men on the street. Some boxers remain very dangerous as they age, like Mike Tyson, who still has his speed and power. And even though George Foreman is old and slow, I still wouldn't want to get hit by him. Neither Tyson nor Foreman could win professionally at boxing's elite level anymore, but they could kill most guys in a real empty-handed fight.

There have also been some former boxers and pro MMA fighters who already slurred their words and showed signs of brain damage/early dementia in middle age. Some could no longer even care for themselves. It's a crap shoot as to how competitive fighters, amateur or pro, will turn out.

You are right. Boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, etc., are young men's sports. How many of the young men and women who train recreationally at MMA gyms, or schools/gyms that teach any one of these arts/sports separately will still be doing it at 50 (or even 40)? Just like most people who train martial arts when young, they'll eventually quit training. Time, life, wear and tear, and decreased motivation can catch up to everyone.

The same is true of martial arts whose techniques require peak athleticism, like Olympic-style Tae Kwon Do, XMA (Xtreme Martial Arts), Wushu, etc. As in gymnastics, physical decline begins early in those arts.

That's what I liked about the CMA I studied. Even though learning them initially require youth and some degree of athleticism, practices can be adjusted as one ages, and one can continue to refine and individualize certain aspects of the art(s), even if you can no longer do some other aspects, or at least to the same degree.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#807

Post by James Y »

Ryusei Imai: What Happened to Baby Bruce Lee?

This little Japanese kid was really phenomenal. Many people think he's the Second Coming. But in all likelihood, his mother has forced him to stop training. And it's hard to say whether he really wanted to train at all in the first place, or if his father had been living out his own dreams through him and forcing him to train. If Ryusei really did love the training and was following his dreams, and his mom forced him to quit and become just another ordinary kid, who grows up to be just another unremarkable, overworked, and overstressed Japanese salaryman, shame on her.

Of course, all of this is none of my or anybody's else's business. But from the outside, it sounds like the parents were using him in a tug of war between themselves and their own selfish motivations.

If he really did love the training and dreamed of going places with it, but was forced to stop, even if he is a prodigy and tries to resume it again when he comes of age, it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be able to recapture the magic, especially if he stopped cold turkey. Martial arts skills, especially for performance, are perishable. Regardless, wherever he goes in life, I hope it's ultimately HIS decision, and not from being pressured to conform to somebody else's wishes, or from societal pressure to conform and be 'average'.

https://youtu.be/XY1Td31Ac8o

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#808

Post by James Y »

The Boxer No One Could Touch: Explained

Nicolino Locche.

https://youtu.be/uzuomBmWOus

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#809

Post by James Y »

"I Tried the World's Strangest Martial Art" (Systema)

This guy, Sensei Seth, makes some good videos. I particularly like the honesty of both him and the Systema teacher in this one. It may appear goofy in some parts, but there is a method and a purpose to it. Also, the knife grappling adds a whole other dimension.

Seth also points out at the end of the video that it's all too easy to develop an inaccurate judgment of an entire martial art by only seeing a tiny part of it, and concluding that that is the whole of it. An honest statement that VERY FEW martial artists would ever make. More martial arts people should drop the egos and open their minds like that.

https://youtu.be/rOA11ldI2eI

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#810

Post by Naperville »

Kingfisher WoodWorks has impact grade hickory Staffs, Escrima sticks, Enhanced wood....

https://kingfisherwoodworks.com/
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#811

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:26 pm
"I Tried the World's Strangest Martial Art" (Systema)

This guy, Sensei Seth, makes some good videos. I particularly like the honesty of both him and the Systema teacher in this one. It may appear goofy in some parts, but there is a method and a purpose to it. Also, the knife grappling adds a whole other dimension.

Seth also points out at the end of the video that it's all too easy to develop an inaccurate judgment of an entire martial art by only seeing a tiny part of it, and concluding that that is the whole of it. An honest statement that VERY FEW martial artists would ever make. More martial arts people should drop the egos and open their minds like that.

https://youtu.be/rOA11ldI2eI

Jim
The knife grappling would be a good thing to do for all escrima/arnis dojos. If you draw a knife, you do not really know what is going to happen next.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#812

Post by James Y »

Arm Wrapping

This video short shows a demo of arm wrapping.

Not to be "that guy, " another internet martial arts critic; but he makes too big of a circle with his arm to wrap over and around the opponent's arm. Perhaps he only did so for the sake of demonstration? In actual application, you neither need nor want to make such a big motion. Otherwise, the opponent will simply step back and pull his arm away. You really only need your arm, with the elbow leading, to go high enough to clear the opponent's arm, which appears more like a sudden coiling motion than a wide arm swing, and is much quicker. Going full blast can potentially dislocate the opponent's elbow.

As demonstrated, this move requires a quick step or two into the opponent as you're doing it, to capture and put stress on the opponent's elbow, so he can't easily escape.

Arm wrapping can also circle in the opposite direction (still using the opposite arm to the opponent's arm), which puts strain on both the opponent's elbow and shoulder, and causes him to bend forward as you press down.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9I_jsNzWcbM?feature=share

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#813

Post by James Y »

These two stories are NOT martial arts-related, but both involve the use of pocketknives that were used preemptively to get people out of dicey situations. NEITHER of these videos contains any graphic or overly violent content.

"My Pocket Knife Saved My Life in Mexico When the SHTF"

The submitter of this story says his knife was a Delica, but says its blade was 4". Either he actually had an Endura, or he simply overestimated the Delica's blade length.

https://youtu.be/OdFUZatOaqI

"My Swiss Army Knife Saved My Life"

https://youtu.be/Tzx7Pp4evVY

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#814

Post by James Y »

The Edge of Defense - "A Karambit Saved My Life"

An extremely important 3-part video series on the story of Jarred Ha, who legitimately defended himself against an attacker who was around 80 pounds heavier than himself, then went through a year of legal **** for himself and his family, proving he acted in self-defense.

https://youtu.be/pLWs4OOcC4c

https://youtu.be/HPDJT8P1cwg

https://youtu.be/wyq-WbMz3n8

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#815

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 am
The Edge of Defense - "A Karambit Saved My Life"

An extremely important 3-part video series on the story of Jarred Ha, who legitimately defended himself against an attacker who was around 80 pounds heavier than himself, then went through a year of legal **** for himself and his family, proving he acted in self-defense.

https://youtu.be/pLWs4OOcC4c

https://youtu.be/HPDJT8P1cwg

https://youtu.be/wyq-WbMz3n8

Jim
I'm watching this now and thinking about everything that went wrong with my self defense case. 4 to 5 guys were kicking me, striking at me, and trying to grab me. I ended up with an ag assault misdemeanor for ONLY taking a legal length (Chicago) knife out, and placing it on my hip. No thrusting or cutting motions. No injuries to anyone.

- There are relatively few cases SOLVED before court. Only around 30% of the homicides in Chicago are solved by detectives. The only hope that you have is if you can afford a lawyer and take it to court.
- In my case, the proprietor of the business had staff walk me several hundred feet away from his establishment so that when the police came the police report would not indicate that the event happened inside his business. Chicago is a total loss, and the owner did not want his business license to be at risk. Nonetheless, it made it look like I was trying to "leave the scene of the crime" and nothing could be further from the truth.
- I should have had insurance for knife carry. I would have been able to afford a lawyer. Not being able to afford a decent lawyer was the #1 reason I was found guilty. I accepted the chargers and choose not to go to trial with increased charges....NO MONEY FOR LAWYER.
- The media will eat you alive. I know this from a car accident that I had almost 40 years ago. The reason I accepted the plea agreement was due to the case 40 years ago, that the prosecutor said he would drag out in court if I went to trial. With no money for a lawyer and a huge charge facing YOU, you will be surprised at what you will plead guilty to.
- As I've said before, if you can get a firearm and a concealed carry license you are much better off than carrying a knife of any kind. Use a knife and you are looked at as a street thug.

The prosecutors are looking to win cases, they do not care about the facts.

Don't talk to the police, they are looking for arrests and don't care what your story is.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#816

Post by James Y »

When a Boxing Champion Tried MMA

(Video below).

A lot of people forget that James Toney, who was a world class boxing champion, thought he would just step into the UFC and take out Randy Couture. It ended up being one of Couture's easiest fights. The outcome was not a surprise. Historically, more often than not, in mixed matches between a wrestler (or grappler in general) and a 'pure' boxer, the wrestler/grappler usually emerges victorious.

Does this mean that boxing is useless? Of course not! Boxing is one of the four foundations of *orthodox* sport MMA, along with BJJ, Muay Thai, and wrestling. But let's be real: Unless they originally came from a 'pure' boxing background, the vast majority of MMA fighters would be outclassed in a pure pro boxing bout. Just like Conor McGregor was easily outclassed, toyed with, and finally stopped by Floyd Mayweather. It would not have taken a boxer of Mayweather's caliber to do that. Teddy Atlas stated that McGregor's boxing ability wasn't even at the level of an amateur boxer. The same could probably be said for the majority of MMA fighters, including the ones known for throwing hands.

Does that mean that MMA is useless? OF COURSE NOT. The boxing used in MMA is not the same as in 'pure' boxing. It cannot be, because it is only one part of what an MMA fighter has to do, as well as deal with. As a result, an MMA fighter simply will not be as good at straight boxing as a 'pure' boxer.

The same with the Muay Thai in MMA. In a straight Muay Thai bout, an experienced 'pure' Muay Thai fighter would brutalize the vast majority of MMA fighters who only incorporate some Muay Thai into their arsenal.

Context has MUCH to do with the effectiveness of any specific combat sport, martial art, or combatives method. Or weapon. This is why I try to avoid putting down other "styles" or "systems" as useless. Especially ones I know nothing about. Or just because you've seen one practitioner (or a few) from a particular system who weren't what you consider any good.

That's like saying that boxing sucks, because Randy Couture easily beat James Toney. Or that MMA sucks because Floyd Mayweather easily outclassed Conor McGregor. If the roles were reversed, and Randy Couture had faced James Toney in a sanctioned boxing match, James Toney would've easily destroyed Randy Couture.

https://youtube.com/shorts/eh-GaZdcru8?feature=share

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#817

Post by James Y »

Rare Bruce Lee Interviews, (1971 & 1972)

(Two videos below)

This Hong Kong radio interview was conducted by British Journalist Ted Thomas in either 1971 or 1972. Old-school Kung Fu movie fans might recognize Ted Thomas' voice from English-dubbed KF films from the 1970s, in particular, those made by Hong Kong's Shaw Brothers Studio. He also dubbed some of the old kaiju films by Japan's Toho Studios.

https://youtu.be/oBzjUzyVo6w

Phone interview conducted by Alex Ben Block, 1972.

https://youtu.be/1gcq7EOzD_M

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#818

Post by James Y »

He Practiced One Kick 10 Million Times!

Samkor: The most feared left-legged kicker during the Golden Era of Muay Thai.

Note: The concept of fully mastering one particular technique (while still being expert enough in others) is not a concept thought up by Bruce Lee. There were several legendary, historical Japanese and Chinese martial artists who were famous for having mastered one stroke or move so well that they rarely had to rely on any other technique or strategy to be victorious in real fights, even if their opponents knew what was coming

In modern times, Geoff Thompson, who had (and won) well over 300 real fights working as a doorman in some of England's most dangerous clubs in the 1980s into the 1990s, knocked out the vast majority of his opponents with a simple straight right hand, or right hook, landed with precision to the chin/jaw area. Geoff Thompson says it's important to take one good technique (strike, throw, etc.), and train at it 'til you're sick of it, then train it some more. That makes it truly your own and second nature when you need to use it, and very difficult for the opponent to stop or avoid. Have other skills as backup or support, but at least fully master that one technique.

Of course, there's far more to any technique than only movement. There is the conditioning behind it. The vast majority of MMA fighters, who all incorporate some aspects of Muay Thai into their fighting style, would end up with broken tibia bones if they ever tried to round kick with as much power, ferocity, and in the quantities that Samkor did. In fact, I've seen several MMA fights where fighters fractured their shin bones kicking, or having their kicks blocked. It could have also happened to pure Muay Thai fighters in Thailand, but I've never heard of it happening there. Because they start very young, and concentrate on developing the skills and properly conditioning their bodies for their one sport/art, making them WAY better at it. The Dutch kickboxers/Muay Thai fighters are the only ones who can regularly equal or even defeat Thai fighters in the ring.

https://youtu.be/HkrqlYC9DDg

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#819

Post by James Y »

Self-Defense: To Run Or Not to Run?

The two videos below share nearly polar opposite views on the subject of running away from an attacker or attackers in SD. Both make some valid points, BUT, both are approaching the subject from heavily skewed opinions that omit A LOT of factors.

For example: Not everyone is a physically large and imposing-looking former Navy SEAL commander who pumps weights, does lots of running, Jiu-Jitsu, etc., nor do many even have the time or inclination. Nor is every attack a one-on-one situation. Nor is every potential attacker out there going to be some out-of-shape bum.

Or as to the second video, not every attack is an empty-handed, ego-based, frat boy fight.

Neither guy in these videos looks much over 40 (so they're still relatively young men), nor does either appear to have any chronic injuries or conditions that hamper their running ability. That can happen to them someday, besides the fact they're just going to get older. What about clothing? What if the potential victim is wearing a suit, or office casual and dress shoes? Or a dress and heels? Or cowboy boots? Good luck running in those. Nor does either consider if you happen to be with an elderly parent, girlfriends/spouses or children, most of whom will not be able to outrun a lot of the young gangbangers out there. Many street criminals run in packs, and are fit enough to run down a good percentage of people, including most fit people, especially if there's multiple pursuers who may well regularly engage in basketball pickup games.

I'm no self-defense authority, but why doesn't anybody who posts online, whether in videos or in posts on self-defense, ever consider these factors? If self-defense is only a young MAN's game, then you're ignoring and eliminating a significant portion of the population that needs it the most. I don't get all this "tough guy, manly man" mentality from both guys on the subject. Which is dangerous when someone puts themselves in the position of being an authority on self-defense.

The guy in the second video IS correct about people who say "just run away" most likely being unable to run themselves. But let's be real. Even if you train to incorporate sprints into a training regimen, even a fit middle-aged or old man will not outrun a fit teen or 20-something gangbanger intent on running down his target.

Do I have all the answers? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But at least I'm asking the questions that I haven't really heard anybody else have the forethought to consider. Your best bet is a holistic approach to the subject of SD that covers all aspects; awareness, listening to your "gut," body language/cues, avoidance, escape, physical engagement, weapons, legal and medical implications, etc., by studying these various aspects from those who are REALLY in the know about them. Just being a martial arts enthusiast, sport fighter, former military, etc., in itself doesn't necessarily make someone qualified to be a 'self-defense authority.'

Oddly enough (and this may get some people's panties in a wad), but it's not uncommon for martial artists to be among the WORST people to give advice on self-defense. Because they tend to view the world through a "style-centric" lens. Even the Navy SEAL guy in the first video had a video out saying that his martial art, BJJ, is the best and most effective martial art, and all others are BS. Style-centrism leads to a big ego and viewing the world through blinders.

https://youtu.be/5xDANla3L24

https://youtu.be/q_wRtOKcDsQ

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#820

Post by max808 »

James Y wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 9:22 pm
Self-Defense: To Run Or Not to Run?

The two videos below share nearly polar opposite views on the subject of running away from an attacker or attackers in SD. Both make some valid points, BUT, both are approaching the subject from heavily skewed opinions that omit A LOT of factors.

For example: Not everyone is a physically large and imposing-looking former Navy SEAL commander who pumps weights, does lots of running, Jiu-Jitsu, etc., nor do many even have the time or inclination. Nor is every attack a one-on-one situation. Nor is every potential attacker out there going to be some out-of-shape bum.

Or as to the second video, not every attack is an empty-handed, ego-based, frat boy fight.

Neither guy in these videos looks much over 40 (so they're still relatively young men), nor does either appear to have any chronic injuries or conditions that hamper their running ability. That can happen to them someday, besides the fact they're just going to get older. What about clothing? What if the potential victim is wearing a suit, or office casual and dress shoes? Or a dress and heels? Or cowboy boots? Good luck running in those. Nor does either consider if you happen to be with an elderly parent, girlfriends/spouses or children, most of whom will not be able to outrun a lot of the young gangbangers out there. Many street criminals run in packs, and are fit enough to run down a good percentage of people, including most fit people, especially if there's multiple pursuers who may well regularly engage in basketball pickup games.

I'm no self-defense authority, but why doesn't anybody who posts online, whether in videos or in posts on self-defense, ever consider these factors? If self-defense is only a young MAN's game, then you're ignoring and eliminating a significant portion of the population that needs it the most. I don't get all this "tough guy, manly man" mentality from both guys on the subject. Which is dangerous when someone puts themselves in the position of being an authority on self-defense.

The guy in the second video IS correct about people who say "just run away" most likely being unable to run themselves. But let's be real. Even if you train to incorporate sprints into a training regimen, even a fit middle-aged or old man will not outrun a fit teen or 20-something gangbanger intent on running down his target.

Do I have all the answers? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But at least I'm asking the questions that I haven't really heard anybody else have the forethought to consider. Your best bet is a holistic approach to the subject of SD that covers all aspects; awareness, listening to your "gut," body language/cues, avoidance, escape, physical engagement, weapons, legal and medical implications, etc., by studying these various aspects from those who are REALLY in the know about them. Just being a martial arts enthusiast, sport fighter, former military, etc., in itself doesn't necessarily make someone qualified to be a 'self-defense authority.'

Oddly enough (and this may get some people's panties in a wad), but it's not uncommon for martial artists to be among the WORST people to give advice on self-defense. Because they tend to view the world through a "style-centric" lens. Even the Navy SEAL guy in the first video had a video out saying that his martial art, BJJ, is the best and most effective martial art, and all others are BS. Style-centrism leads to a big ego and viewing the world through blinders.

https://youtu.be/5xDANla3L24

https://youtu.be/q_wRtOKcDsQ

Jim
Thanks for sharing Jim. Having seen videos from both men, I really wouldn't compare Jocko Willinck, the SEAL commander, to the second guy, who comes across as rather confrontational and even beligerent in all his videos and more of the stabby type of personality. Jocko is a decorated veteran and more of a thinking man/warrior poet than you might think at first glance. Even though I don't always agree with everything he says, especially concerning BJJ ( but that's probably just me), he really emphasizes mental discipline/health on his channel and has a lot of senior veterans from past wars on to discuss their experiences and hopefully learn from them.

That said he ís a product of the military, SF at that, and a lot of them are so conditioned and indoctrinated that they tend to exude that hoorah! mentality in everything they do. I believe he is however a gentleman in the truest sense of the word, protector of the weak, crusader for justice and not the dandy type of "gentleman" who are more concerned with their hairdo, pedicure or which $10,000 suit to put on rather than helping an old lady cross the street. :cheap-sunglasses

The thing that irks me most about the BJJ scene is how many of its practicioners seem to ignore or flatout disrespect its Japanese jiujitsu roots when that's where their Gracie brethren got their mustard from in the first place. The same goes for Aikido, which I won't go into. Safe to say in a real fight Steven Seagal would still whoop most of these armchair commandos on YouTube who love nothing more than to put him on blast every chance they get. Just my ¥$0.02£€. Have a great week Sir.

max
MNOSD 0047 - mens sana in corpore sano -
Do more than is required of you . Patton
For man's only weapon is courage that flinches not from the gates of **** itself, and against such not even the legions of **** can stand. Robert E. Howard
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