Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

1917: Japanese sailors practice bayonet vs Kendo and bayonet vs bayonet fencing/sparring, aboard a Japanese vessel docked in the Mediterranean.

https://youtu.be/CFB0IqOLQzU

Jim

[James Y]

1896 Burmese martial art (Thaing) and Chinlone (ball kicking - NOT groin kicking :D ) demo in London.

One of the things I really like about these vintage historical films is looking not only at who is being featured, but also the people in the background. Knowing that they were filmed 80, 90, 100...or, in this case, 124 years ago...and that all of these people have been dead a really long time. These are moments in time in ordinary lives of people from around the world.

https://youtu.be/h7R7EvFj6Pw

Jim

[OrangeShoes]

I begin to appreciate martial arts because of Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li and Donnie Yen movies! They are amazing.

[James Y]

I begin to appreciate martial arts because of Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li and Donnie Yen movies! They are amazing.

Yes, they are truly great martial artists! If you haven’t seen it yet, the “Favorite Movie Fight Scenes” thread has clips of them and many more! :)

Jim

[James Y]

Sword demonstrations, WW1 era (1914-1918).

Lynn Thompson’s grandfather/great-grandfather? :D

https://youtu.be/L49a6mE94r4

Jim

[James Y]

W. E. Fairbairn (1885-1960) was undoubtedly one of the toughest, most dangerous men of the 20th century. Do not allow his old-time “schoolmaster” look to fool you. He joined the Shanghai Municipal Police Force in 1907, and over the course of a 20-year career there, reportedly survived over 600 street fights, and much of his body was covered in scars from his numerous encounters with knives. His considerable historical achievements and influences will not be recounted here, and are best looked up, if anyone is interested. My focus here is on his martial arts background.

The combat method he developed and taught he called ‘Defendu’, which was a distillation of what he had learned, combined with his experiences in real-life fights during the course of his duty in Shanghai, which at the time was considered the most dangerous city in the world, not only due to street thugs and the numerous Chinese “Tong” or “Triad” criminal gangs, but the many foreign criminals who were operating there as well.

After being severely beaten by a gang of criminals and left for dead in a Shanghai red light district, after a lengthy recovery, Fairbairn studied Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu under Professor Okada, who was based in Shanghai. Fairbairn also studied Kodokan Judo in Japan, in which he achieved a 2nd-degree black belt; the first Westerner to do so. His certificate was signed by Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo himself.

He also studied “Chinese Boxing;” actually, a Kung Fu system known as Baguazhang (Eight Trigram Palm) from Tsai Ching-Tung (Cui Zhengdong), former instructor to the retainers of the empress dowager. Tsai Ching-Tung’s teacher had been a legendary figure, Yin Fu. Fairbairn had described Tsai Ching-Tung as “A man of terrifying prowess.” Fairbairn was almost certainly the first Westerner to have trained in a Chinese Kung Fu system; many teachers would not have even taught most fellow Chinese, let alone a Westerner. Although I’m dubious as to how deeply he was actually taught the Baguazhang. Traditionally (and still commonly today), Chinese teachers taught ‘common’ students superficially, and reserved the “real stuff” (the inner teachings and the fine points) to trusted disciples. In the training film below, the shin kick/scrape into foot stomp was adapted from “Chinese Boxing” (Baguazhang).

He was also familiar with Cornish wrestling, boxing, French Savate, etc.

His most important emphasis was on mastering a few simple, reliably effective skills, and taking the initiative with ruthless aggression in a fight.

https://youtu.be/_hIdkgd0Hrw

Jim

[Naperville]

While having a few drinks I like to read martial arts related materials. This copy is FREE.

100% FREE JKD Special Download (PDF) on em3Video:
https://em3video.com/masters-magazine-s ... -birthday/

[VashHash]

If you look into enough styles of martial arts you'll start to see similar techniques. I found some old H.E.M.A manuals online and some of the barehand disarming techniques were similar to some Japanese style techniques. I thought I bookmarked the site but I can't find it right now. There's only so many ways something can be done and when you start seeing it across different styles it probably worked pretty well.

[James Y]

Demonstrations of Xinyi Liuhe Quan, which translates as “Mind/Intent Six-Harmony Fist.

Xinyi Liuhe Quan is one of the Chinese martial arts that originated with the Chinese Hui Muslim minority group in Henan Province.

This video demonstrates some applications, mainly throws and takedowns, from the art:

https://youtu.be/AKgjn5VSFUg

A form demonstration:

https://youtu.be/-OQjlAOgXmo

Jim

[VashHash]

Finally found those images of barehand vs dagger. Again in my mind these are similar to Japanese style techniques but I could see it would be possible other styles could have similar techniques. Also note this is from the 1500s. These were collected in the book Cold Steel (1889).
Thearma.org has the full pdf for free.

[James Y]

Finally found those images of barehand vs dagger. Again in my mind these are similar to Japanese style techniques but I could see it would be possible other styles could have similar techniques. Also note this is from the 1500s. These were collected in the book Cold Steel (1889).
Thearma.org has the full pdf for free.

Thanks for posting! Yes, there are bound to be similarities found in various places around the world.

FWIW, Japanese Jujutsu systems were originally based on, or highly influenced by, Chinese Chin-Na (pinyin spelling: Qinna) techniques, which are found in most Chinese martial arts/Kung Fu systems in varying degrees, especially in northern Chinese systems. A major difference is that Japanese unarmed martial arts used much more floor/ground grappling than Chinese systems, due at least in part to the traditional Japanese custom, especially in the past, of visiting and sitting on the floor, and the greater probability of being attacked while in such a position. In fact, I’m not aware of any Chinese systems that have much if any floor grappling; even Chinese wrestling (Shuai Jiao) seems to emphasize mostly on throws. They could exist; I’m simply not aware of any.

Jim

[VashHash]

Yeah the Japanese developed multiple fighting styles from seiza. A lot of Japanese martial art's originated from China. Different wars drove different people out and trade deals happened. Supposedly seiza was used to make the legs fall asleep and reduce the chance of fighting because it was hard to stand after. Some samurai would squat instead so their legs wouldn't go as numb.

[VashHash]

Speaking of sitting and fighting.

Kung fu practitioners always were good at improvising weapons.
https://youtu.be/42MKhWcRkAo

And let's throw in some Jackie Chan.
https://youtu.be/6uJW6UpCcyI

[James Y]

Here is a rare Kung Fu style called Dishu Quan (literally, “Ground Skills Fist”), or also known as Gouquan (“Dog Fist”). It has emphasis on ground fighting, but VERY different from the Japanese ground grappling methods. There is a lot of emphasis on using the legs and kicking on the ground.

https://youtu.be/Uh1cZJh5ZCk

Jim

[VashHash]

That's definitely something different and I like that he admits it's limitations in practical fights and tries to improve it. He also carries on the traditional style too which is important.

[James Y]

The video below features a master of the Buk Sing lineage of Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu, demonstrating Gwa (sweeping back fist), Sau (sweeping, or roundhouse, punch), and Tsop (piercing, or straight punch). These are basics common to all Choy Lay Fut lineages. All CLF lineages share the same root. CLF is designed to be an aggressive fighting method, and there are no ‘pure’ blocks; attacks double as blocks, and blocks double as attacks.

IMO, compared to many of the other major Kung Fu systems, there are very few really good CLF videos on YouTube.

BTW: Choy Lay Fut, Choy Lee Fut, Choy Li Fut, Choi Lai Fut, etc., are all alternate English spellings for the same art. How one chooses to spell it is strictly a matter of preference, or habit. My sifu spells it ‘Choi Lai Fut’, and alternately, ‘Choy Lay Fut’. I usually spell it ‘Choy Lee Fut’, but that is subject to change. :) CLF is the martial art I’ve specialized in since 1993, after many years of practicing other arts.

In my own experience, CLF applications are very difficult to demonstrate slowly or lightly, because CLF is designed for aggressive, blitzing, continuous attacks and follow-through. If demonstrated slowly, CLF appears wide open; only at full-speed (or near full-speed) can its applications be seen and understood. Then it becomes clear that it’s not as wide open as it might have first appeared.

There are certain martial artists that it is clear, even when they’re just demonstrating, that they *really* know their stuff, and can and have actually used their art for real. This master is clearly one of them:

https://youtu.be/uZBOcHzD8UY

Jim

[Bloke]

just demonstrating

[James Y]

just demonstrating

Hahaha!! “Worst Kung Fu Movie Auditions!” :D

Jim

[James Y]

Lorne Bernard is another of those martial artists who are clearly extremely knowledgeable in their art. In this case, his art is Fei He Quan (Flying Crane Fist), a southern White Crane Kung Fu system from Fujian (AKA, Fukien) Province. In fact, he is the very first Caucasian instructor of Fei He Quan in the history of the art. Fujian White Crane systems differ greatly from the Tibetan White Crane (also called Lama Pai or Hop Gar) system, and also differ from the crane techniques found in Hung Gar (Hung Kuen) and Choy Lay Fut.

https://youtu.be/sSKOJbQ5ObU

In this clip, comparing his Fei He Quan with Choy Lay Fut. Lorne Bernard is also a highly knowledgeable Choy Lay Fut practitioner:

https://youtu.be/R53QKS2Uu1k

Fei He Quan form demonstration by Lorne Bernard:

https://youtu.be/JfCq1VGmAP4

Jim

[James Y]

“SECRETS” (Part 1):

In some martial arts, in particular many Chinese martial arts, it’s commonly the custom for certain details and fine points, as well as certain principles and application methods, to be withheld from “regular” students and reserved only for certain advanced students or disciples. “Disciples” not in a religious sense, but meaning the “inner door” or “inner circle.” Some of these fine points or details could mean the difference between a certain skill or technique being effective or ineffective in actual usage. In olden times, this tradition was mainly to prevent a student of bad character possibly misusing the teachings and bringing negative attention, and possibly the authorities, down on the teacher’s head. In past times, this was a very real risk for a teacher.

But in modern times, at a seminar I once attended that was given by a world-famous “keeper” (direct family lineage holder) of a certain Kung Fu system, at one point, the featured master was overheard admonishing his student/assistant in another room for showing “the real version,” when they had already agreed to teach the {name of the city where the seminar was being held} version. When I heard this from the person who overheard, I lost all trust in what was being taught. Sure enough, that student/assistant instructor came back in and told us he had “taught us some things wrong” and changed everything we had spent an hour learning and practicing to the way he was “supposed to” have taught us (i.e., the wrong way).

None of us in attendance were novice martial artists, and the “real” details were not above any of our capabilities. True, we’d only paid for a 2-day seminar and weren’t actual direct students of this particular master. But if you are going to advertise and hold a seminar open to anybody interested, charging good money for it, AND with other students who had flown from places as far-flung as Poland and Hawaii to attend; TEACH WHAT YOU ADVERTISED THE RIGHT WAY, OR DON’T OFFER TO TEACH IT AT ALL.

To be continued next post...

Jim