Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

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vivi
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#301

Post by vivi »

VooDooChild wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:15 pm
vivi wrote: I think a lot of it is that most people haven't taken a hard leg kick, so they underestimate how debilitating they can be. One good one is enough to impair mobility and leave a bruise for weeks. Of course sparring in shin guards makes them easier to take, but it's still bad habit to ignore them.

You'll even see it in top level MMA, which blows my mind. Conor vs Dustin 2 comes to mind. You'd think McGregor had never drilled leg kick defense based on that performance. Which is weird because they were an essential part of his gameplan when he squeeked out a decision against Nate Diaz in their rematch.
Ill turn my thigh out, do that old school raised leg/ dropped elbow block, or check with a snap kick if I can. If someone successfully lands more than about two leg kicks on me then Im gonna try to go to the ground or change up something quick, maybe grab a big stick.
I just rotate my shin out and leg my foot up. Doesn't take many checks to make most think twice about throwing them.

I thought this was a cool video:

https://youtu.be/HyS75oi4tm4

It's similar to the tournaments I fought growing up except different gloves and we wore headguards.
:unicorn
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#302

Post by James Y »

Thanks for sharing, guys!

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#303

Post by James Y »

There are no superior arts, only superior practitioners.

This post is focusing on Wing Chun. I have never studied Wing Chun (WC) myself, and the art doesn’t appeal to me personally, but I have sparred against advanced WC practitioners. Enough to know that, in the right hands, WC can be highly effective. But like any martial art, there are different levels of ability among its practitioners.

These video clips are (IMO) among the better WC clips I’ve found on YouTube.

The first is from a Hong Kong series, Kung Fu Quest. This episode involves a couple practitioners of Wing Chun and Sanda who traveled from Hong Kong to northern China to compare/freespar against advanced students of Xingyi Quan. One of the Wing Chun/Sanda fighters is Philip Ng, who in addition has also studied Choy Lee Fut under his father, who has run a large school in Chicago, teaching both Wing Chun and Choy Lee Fut for many years. Philip Ng is also an actor, who has starred in several Hong Kong martial arts action films. Both of these Wing Chun practitioners have experience outside of WC, which they seemlessly blend into it. And while this is a light, friendly sparring exchange, it is clear that the Wing Chun guys here are more accustomed to facing different types of fighters, are used to facing people who aren’t playing their game, and are more effective than the Xingyi fighters.

The second video clip shows a WC Chi Sao (sticking hands) competition. Some WC practitioners (not necessarily referring to the two men in the video) take Chi Sao to be the whole of fighting, which it is not. Years ago, on a couple different occasions, I freesparred with advanced WC fighters who wanted me to ‘touch hands’ with them. We met on neutral ground, in parks. The first time, I started out like he wanted. Big mistake. I was getting overwhelmed and slapped around, a lot. So I disengaged and started moving and striking aggressively from varying distances, and at different angles. I was nailing him from odd angles that he wasn’t used to, but he couldn’t catch me. He ended up panting with his hands on his knees and giving up. This guy was very good, and physically stronger than me, but he had only trained in WC, so he wasn’t used to facing someone who wasn’t playing by his rules. When I faced the other advanced WC fighter on a separate occasion, I never allowed his arms to “stick” to mine and played my own game, and the end result was nearly identical.

The lesson here is: Don’t play the opponent’s game unless you’re better at it than he is, even if you’re his equal at it. Don’t punch with a boxer, don’t kick with a kicker, don’t grapple with a grappler, and don’t play ‘sticking hands’ with a good WC fighter. Unless, of course, you’re in a competition in which the rules require you to do so.

Kung Fu Quest: Wing Chun vs Xingyi Quan:

https://youtu.be/8fqwNGUq60I

Wing Chun Chi Sao competition:

https://youtu.be/CczGJH41kiQ

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#304

Post by James Y »

https://youtu.be/HTdjL5np3jA

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#305

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:28 pm
https://youtu.be/HTdjL5np3jA

Jim
Nobody should go through that. I hope that he receives 10 years for it.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#306

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:55 pm
Nobody should go through that. I hope that he receives 10 years for it.

Since he was already a known sex offender, IMO, 10 years wouldn’t be long enough. He’s just going to do it again. And again. And he’ll keep on doing it as long as he’s physically able to get around.

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#307

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:49 am
Naperville wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:55 pm
Nobody should go through that. I hope that he receives 10 years for it.

Since he was already a known sex offender, IMO, 10 years wouldn’t be long enough. He’s just going to do it again. And again. And he’ll keep on doing it as long as he’s physically able to get around.

Jim
I completely agree. I was going to suggest something more harsh, but, I did not want to get censored.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#308

Post by James Y »

I’ve mentioned this several times in this thread: Don’t Underestimate Anyone.

In my lifetime, I’ve known a few guys who had NO formal martial arts or fight training at all (whether traditional martial arts, boxing/wrestling, MMA, or modern combatives), but they were extremely dangerous (and effective) in real fights; more dangerous than most high-ranking black belts I’ve seen or met. They had no formal training, but they could FIGHT, and end it very quickly. Besides aggression and intent, such people also have none of the normal inhibitions against hurting others that most people have. These types are certainly not the majority of the population, but there are many people like that out there, and you can never tell who they might be beforehand, based on their physical appearance alone.

https://youtu.be/NJCZmK52kq0

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#309

Post by James Y »

Tommy Carruthers Jeet Kune Do (JKD). Glasgow, Scotland.

This clip is a compilation of some Tommy Carruthers’ demonstrations while teaching, taped many years ago. He’s in his 60s now. I first heard about him over a decade ago. He seems to have been a somewhat ‘polarizing’ figure among JKD practitioners. Meaning, some were saying he is excellent and the real deal, and predictably, others were saying he was a fraud. I have no time for martial arts politics. Which is one of the reasons that, with the exception of this thread (and here and there in a few other threads) on this forum (and very infrequently on PracTac), I do not discuss martial arts at all anymore, online or otherwise, except with a couple of good friends I’ve known personally for decades and have trained with.

I can only say that, as a martial artist, Tommy Carruthers looks more than legit to me. We must remember that these are DEMONSTRATIONS. So of course the target is only standing there. Everybody knows that if you were actually going for full contact on every blow, the opponent and his body responds/reacts to the contact, which affects and slows down the raw speed, and the sequence, of your striking combinations. I’m certain that Carruthers himself knows that. The fact is, the majority of people out there, including most people who practice martial arts, are incapable of moving with that level of speed and explosiveness to begin with.

https://youtu.be/_gBoWCEAKZw

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#310

Post by Naperville »

Sure some arts and some artists better than others, regardless, they do not teach you to stand around with your hands in your pockets! Get your hands out of your pockets and prepare to defend yourselves.

When not in a totally safe space, get ready to rock and roll!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-cit ... ee-manhunt
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#311

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:26 pm
Sure some arts and some artists better than others, regardless, they do not teach you to stand around with your hands in your pockets! Get your hands out of your pockets and prepare to defend yourselves.

When not in a totally safe space, get ready to rock and roll!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-cit ... ee-manhunt

From what I’ve heard, Tommy Carruthers actually teaches very realistically and hardcore, and has worked as a bouncer in a very rough city (Glasgow), and that many of the students he has trained are very effective as well. I’m not shilling for him at all. Just thought I’d present something of him in this thread.

Personally, I strongly believe it’s the artist, more than the art itself. Sure, some arts are better at certain aspects than others, but for example, I’ve known “old-school” (trained in the ‘60s and ‘70s) Tae Kwon Do guys who could fight dirty and for real, as good as or better than some long-time practitioners of so-called ‘more effective arts’ and modern combatives. It had to do with their background, mindset, how they were trained, and the actual fighting experiences they’d had in their lives, outside of training. I use TKD as an example, because most people today associate TKD with being ineffective due to it being associated with acrobatic kicks, Olympic TKD and kiddie TKD classes, but many of the early TKD practitioners were hard core and could rock n’ roll.

Pretty much the same could be said of any martial art. And every art (no matter how popular or how practical it is) also has practitioners who will probably never become good at it. Not being judgmental, merely stating a fact. Anyone who is determined can definitely improve, but not everyone has the determination and the “it factor” to stick with it, and excel at it to a high level. Like not everyone can become a good painter or a good writer. That’s why martial arts have such a high turnover rate.

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#312

Post by Naperville »

James Y wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:30 pm
Naperville wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:26 pm
Sure some arts and some artists better than others, regardless, they do not teach you to stand around with your hands in your pockets! Get your hands out of your pockets and prepare to defend yourselves.

When not in a totally safe space, get ready to rock and roll!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-cit ... ee-manhunt

From what I’ve heard, Tommy Carruthers actually teaches very realistically and hardcore, and has worked as a bouncer in a very rough city (Glasgow), and that many of the students he has trained are very effective as well. I’m not shilling for him at all. Just thought I’d present something of him in this thread.

Personally, I strongly believe it’s the artist, more than the art itself. Sure, some arts are better at certain aspects than others, but for example, I’ve known “old-school” (trained in the ‘60s and ‘70s) Tae Kwon Do guys who could fight dirty and for real, as good as or better than some long-time practitioners of so-called ‘more effective arts’ and modern combatives. It had to do with their background, mindset, how they were trained, and the actual fighting experiences they’d had in their lives, outside of training. I use TKD as an example, because most people today associate TKD with being ineffective due to it being associated with acrobatic kicks, Olympic TKD and kiddie TKD classes, but many of the early TKD practitioners were hard core and could rock n’ roll.

Pretty much the same could be said of any martial art. And every art (no matter how popular or how practical it is) also has practitioners who will probably never become good at it. Not being judgmental, merely stating a fact. Anyone who is determined can definitely improve, but not everyone has the determination and the “it factor” to stick with it, and excel at it to a high level. Like not everyone can become a good painter or a good writer. That’s why martial arts have such a high turnover rate.

Jim
Sorry Jim, my mistake. I was just posting that link for those who are reading this thread to be awake, pay attention to their surroundings, and be ready to defend themselves. A group of goofs were running around NY City slashing people!

You simply cannot walk around in a "red zone" all of the time, but it behooves people to pay attention and be ready to throw down.

Tommy Carruthers looks good! There was one Bahala Na instructor that had the exact same JKD skills. He showed me some of it and I was very impressed. I pity the fool who decides to take him on empty handed or with a knife.

There are some very talented people out there. They do not wave signs around, and as you've said, even those who have not trained formally can be very dangerous.

And, any art or artist can be formidable. It depends on what they picked up from the streets or their instructors.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#313

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 4:42 pm
James Y wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:30 pm
Naperville wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:26 pm
Sure some arts and some artists better than others, regardless, they do not teach you to stand around with your hands in your pockets! Get your hands out of your pockets and prepare to defend yourselves.

When not in a totally safe space, get ready to rock and roll!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-cit ... ee-manhunt

From what I’ve heard, Tommy Carruthers actually teaches very realistically and hardcore, and has worked as a bouncer in a very rough city (Glasgow), and that many of the students he has trained are very effective as well. I’m not shilling for him at all. Just thought I’d present something of him in this thread.

Personally, I strongly believe it’s the artist, more than the art itself. Sure, some arts are better at certain aspects than others, but for example, I’ve known “old-school” (trained in the ‘60s and ‘70s) Tae Kwon Do guys who could fight dirty and for real, as good as or better than some long-time practitioners of so-called ‘more effective arts’ and modern combatives. It had to do with their background, mindset, how they were trained, and the actual fighting experiences they’d had in their lives, outside of training. I use TKD as an example, because most people today associate TKD with being ineffective due to it being associated with acrobatic kicks, Olympic TKD and kiddie TKD classes, but many of the early TKD practitioners were hard core and could rock n’ roll.

Pretty much the same could be said of any martial art. And every art (no matter how popular or how practical it is) also has practitioners who will probably never become good at it. Not being judgmental, merely stating a fact. Anyone who is determined can definitely improve, but not everyone has the determination and the “it factor” to stick with it, and excel at it to a high level. Like not everyone can become a good painter or a good writer. That’s why martial arts have such a high turnover rate.

Jim
Sorry Jim, my mistake. I was just posting that link for those who are reading this thread to be awake, pay attention to their surroundings, and be ready to defend themselves. A group of goofs were running around NY City slashing people!

You simply cannot walk around in a "red zone" all of the time, but it behooves people to pay attention and be ready to throw down.

Tommy Carruthers looks good! There was one Bahala Na instructor that had the exact same JKD skills. He showed me some of it and I was very impressed. I pity the fool who decides to take him on empty handed or with a knife.

There are some very talented people out there. They do not wave signs around, and as you've said, even those who have not trained formally can be very dangerous.

And, any art or artist can be formidable. It depends on what they picked up from the streets or their instructors.

Thanks for clarifying, Naperville.

Yeah, that story about those idiots slashing people in NYC really P’d me off. I hope they’re really punished for it, but I don’t have confidence that the punishment will fit the crime ( i.e., be harsh enough).

When I’m out and about, I’m always in (I guess) condition yellow. Maintaining a relaxed awareness. Like when driving under normal conditions.

To me, the interesting thing about Jeet Kune Do (which translates into “Way of the Intercepting Fist”) is that Bruce Lee never actually intended for it to be a style or a system. He originally intended it as a concept for mostly-experienced martial artists to find their own “way” and their own “truth.” He had intended it as a way to transcend the limitations of systems. Meaning someone else’s Jeet Kune Do would be different from Bruce Lee’s or anybody else’s, depending on their experiences. Now many JKD practitioners have ‘systematized’ it, deciding what is and what isn’t JKD, which is something that Bruce Lee had been against. Not that it matters to me. As long as it works for them, it’s all good.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#314

Post by The Mastiff »

I'm always reading your posts Jim. :) You say a lot of true things and make some really good points. I'll talk about untrained fighters as I've met more than a few. :eek: One guy in particular I remember well. He was a felon murdered that came from a family of criminals. I won't say more about that.

He was about 5'7" and probably 170 ish. Almost an albino he was so blonde. In fact you could gauge the danger by looking at his color. By the time he got crimson it was time to get some distance. When he got red and purple someone was going to get hit.

He had a knack for one shot knockouts. Rarely were the guys he hit not going to need to get their jaw wired as he seemed to have a knack for breaking them with the first punch. He was completely fearless without any bragging or talk. He was also one of the few white guys that got left alone. He was no problem to us guards because as a long timer he figured he didn't need to make trouble for himself. Like anyone he had limits though. Loansharking was about the only thing he ever really did and the only trouble he got in was when guys who couldn't pay asked for self protection to avoid him.

Other than growing up hard and fighting in a pretty redneck area he had no martial training at all. It sure didn't stop him from being all kinds of dangerous though. :D
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#315

Post by James Y »

The Mastiff wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:16 pm
I'm always reading your posts Jim. :) You say a lot of true things and make some really good points. I'll talk about untrained fighters as I've met more than a few. :eek: One guy in particular I remember well. He was a felon murdered that came from a family of criminals. I won't say more about that.

He was about 5'7" and probably 170 ish. Almost an albino he was so blonde. In fact you could gauge the danger by looking at his color. By the time he got crimson it was time to get some distance. When he got red and purple someone was going to get hit.

He had a knack for one shot knockouts. Rarely were the guys he hit not going to need to get their jaw wired as he seemed to have a knack for breaking them with the first punch. He was completely fearless without any bragging or talk. He was also one of the few white guys that got left alone. He was no problem to us guards because as a long timer he figured he didn't need to make trouble for himself. Like anyone he had limits though. Loansharking was about the only thing he ever really did and the only trouble he got in was when guys who couldn't pay asked for self protection to avoid him.

Other than growing up hard and fighting in a pretty redneck area he had no martial training at all. It sure didn't stop him from being all kinds of dangerous though. :D

Thanks a lot, Joe! I’m both flattered and humbled.

And thank you for sharing that. That is very interesting. The really dangerous ones tend NOT to be loud or full of braggadocio.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#316

Post by James Y »

Great Geoff Thompson interview.

I especially like when he starts getting into the metaphysical aspects in part 2.

Part 1:

https://youtu.be/RakD3qN29Vo

Part 2:

https://youtu.be/NjUKswroEP0

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#317

Post by James Y »

Geoff Thompson Interview (continued)…

Parts 3 and 5. I couldn’t find Part 4 of this particular interview on YT.

Part 3:

https://youtu.be/RtU8oELe7cY

Part 5:

https://youtu.be/4RK1-i9eo7E

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#318

Post by James Y »

Article: “Evolution Made The Human Fist Fit For Punching.”

The article contains a more comprehensive link to the study.

https://www.Newsweek.com/evolution-made ... ing-386426

Although the fist and punching (striking with the fore fist knuckles) is the most basic type of strike in combat sports, as well as in virtually all martial arts that include striking, I have some problems with this study. Using an apparatus to manipulate the arms of cadavers to strike dumbbells does not, in any way, equal real life.

I am NOT discounting the effectiveness of properly-landed fore fist punches. I’ve used them in a couple of real fights myself. But there are very effective methods of striking with the hand that carry far less risk of breaking one’s own hand than fore fist punching.

If you had to pound on a door hard with your hand, what would you do? Most likely you’d use a hammer fist, striking with the fleshy outside edge of the hand, NOT punching with the fore knuckles. Hammer-fisting a door is the natural instinct; not punching the door with a right cross or a karate reverse punch. Pounding a door hard with a fore fist punch is a pretty sure way to break the bones in your hand. Breaking the hand while fore fist punching is common enough that a break in the metacarpal bone of your ring finger or pinky finger is called a “boxer’s fracture.” Even Mike Tyson broke his hand in a street fight against boxer Mitch Green. The hand could also be broken if the punch lands with the two prominent (index and middle finger) knuckles. And that’s supposing the punch lands on target properly.

There are some guys who have had considerable street fighting experience, who claim to have never broken their hands while punching in fights. Geoff Thompson punched hundreds of people with fore fist punches without breaking his hand, but that could have been pure luck. Also, in most of Geoff Thompson’s fights (as a bouncer), he threw and landed the first (which was also usually the last) punch of his fights, to the chin or the jawline, making for quick, one-punch knockouts. He had them lined up for the shot very subtly beforehand, which doesn’t happen in the majority of situations and fights involving people who aren’t doormen.

To be fair, some men’s hands are thicker/heavier-boned than others, but even their hands are not immune to breaking. I knew a guy with thick hands who had broken the middle finger metacarpal bone in his right hand from throwing a punch that landed wrong. It had healed improperly, and he could no longer make a proper fist with that hand anymore.

The study never considers that fore fist punching is not a suitable SD tactic at all for people who have delicate hands and bone structure, especially without considerable conditioning.

The study in the article also discounts the effectiveness of open-handed strikes; specifically, open-handed slaps. You cannot recreate and measure the effects of a PROPERLY applied slap, that lands with the full palm (not the fingers), or with the palm heel, to the jawline, the ear, the cheek, etc., thrown with bad intent, hip torque and follow-through, by using a contraption to swing a cadaver arm to strike a dumbbell. That’s “dumb.” It’s only one more example of the ignorance of the effectiveness of a *proper* slap.

The researchers who did the study obviously theorized a lot, but have no actual fighting experience themselves.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#319

Post by James Y »

Lee Morrison - Car Combatives.

https://youtu.be/wSo-cAsiggU

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#320

Post by Naperville »

FREE Martial Arts movies. The catch, commercials.

https://tubitv.com/category/martial_arts
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