Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

VooDooChild:

There are many very formidable Tae Kwon Do practitioners, ESPECIALLY those who were seriously trained during the late 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. TKD was originally a variant of Shotokan Karate; its originator, Gen. Choi, had studied Shotokan in Japan and IIRC had achieved a 2nd-degree black belt, before returning to Korea to found TKD. During the Vietnam War, South Korea’s Tiger Division were highly feared by the Vietcong. Among other things, all members of the Tiger Division were trained in TKD. Much different from today’s highly-modified, Olympic-style TKD, the Tiger Division concentrated on more basic kicks and heavily trained and conditioned their hands, and practiced TKD as a killing method. There are instances of Tiger Division members killing VC soldiers with their bare hands during H2H combat. Some of them went overboard.

ChrisinHove:

I also got my start in Judo because of my dad. My family is Japanese-American, and well into the 1970s, most of my male relatives tried at least some Judo at some point in their youth. I was one of the last to follow that tradition. It was a great introduction to martial arts training, even though I eventually moved on to other arts.

Takuan:

Black belts in both BJJ and Judo is quite an accomplishment.

I agree that other, non-combative aspects of the martial arts help to keep one youthful. When I was younger, my main focus was on practicality for fighting ability/self-defense, with a mostly cursory focus on artistic aspects. I no longer train in class, nor do I teach anymore. When I taught Choy Lee Fut (I stopped teaching in 2006), I had to explain and demonstrate all aspects to my students. That gave me a greater appreciation of (for example) forms execution (which I could perform well anyway, but hadn’t appreciated much). The forms/sets teach you to move fluidly into and out of exaggerated positions that your body would not normally move into, as well as ingraining certain patterns that can be modified for application. This improves your balance, body awareness/control, agility, and discipline of movement. Also, it can be fun and almost meditative at times. It brings other dimensions to the training and I enjoy it. And TBH, if my martial arts training was not still enjoyable to some degree and enriching to my life, I would have stopped doing it a long time ago.

Jim

[vivi]

Today I showed one of the 6 year olds in my neighborhood some moves. Taught her how to make a proper fist, showed her how to use the ball of her foot on front kicks, and taught her elbows strikes. Makes me want to sign up to teach karate to youngins once covid era comes to a close!

Thanks, guys!

To vivi and Naperville....

“dit da jow”

When I get the bag, I'm going to need the family size dit-da-jow! :D

When I came back to Chicago, I use to go to the Chinese apothecary in Chinatown. I have all sorts of remedies in my pantry.

I wasn't able to PM you back due to an error. I appreciate you reaching out but I am looking for a different steel. Thanks!

[Naperville]

I wasn't able to PM you back due to an error. I appreciate you reaching out but I am looking for a different steel. Thanks!

Glad that we touched base!

[Halfneck]

Started with just some simple boxing, later I moved on to a form of TKD & some Army combatives. Attended a Riddle of Steel in '95. While in TKD I got my Brown Belt, then got sidelined training for my Black Belt due to a broken toe. When I came back a few Red Belts had passed me by for their Black. Kind of became disheartened & quit because those former Red Belts were not good at all. One tried to lord it up during an Instructor's class & I handed him his *** during a sparring session. Realized it was more about going through the motions than actually being effective & just saw no point to continue Did some combatives training later while in the Army & loved the straight forward nature of it. Then I got cancer & lost use of my left arm & hand so nothing since.

During the 80s & 90s most martial art studios I saw in the U.S. were just a combination of belt factory & glorified aerobics. If BJJ, Krav Maga, or MMA had been around when I was younger I'd of probably stuck with it. I got grief from some other instructors for attending a Battle of Atlanta competition because it wasn't "True to the Sport". Did ok for my rank at the time (Blue Belt I think?). Course part of what caught my opponents off guard was they were expecting straight TKD, whereas my instructor had taught me some Muay Thai stikes & I just threw in some basic street stuff. Definitely a lot more of a variety of martial arts out there now.

[James Y]

Halfneck, I’m very sorry to hear what happened to your left arm and hand.

When I started Kenpo at 13, it was my first experience learning striking. I became more interested in that than the Judo I’d been doing, because as a kid, I’d always been more afraid of strikes than throwing/grappling. I was extremely lucky because, although I literally started at the nearest Karate studio, the teacher turned out to be just what I needed, and he influenced my views on martial arts for my entire life, even though I’ve long since moved on from that school and art.

He taught Kenpo, but also had experience in boxing, as well as wrestling, Japanese Jujitsu, Escrima, and Kung Fu. He combined a lot of stuff in application, but not in a willy-nilly way. He methods were effective, and he always had guests coming in for sparring, such as boxers, professional kickboxers, other Karate, Kajukenbo, and TKD groups; and a couple times, even obnoxious guys who walked in off the street and challenged him. He would spar or fight with anybody, and I never saw anyone who could dominate him. And his top students were like-minded. It was a “colorful” environment. This was back in the ‘70s, and his methods were unusual. If he felt something was impractical he excluded it, but always taught us to respect other martial arts, because you can learn something from any source. He also had lots of respect for Chinese martial arts, which planted the seed in my head that eventually led me to specialize in a practical Kung Fu system.

When I earned my first black belt under him in 1980, I was 17 and his youngest student to test for black belt ever at the time. He flunked me twice over the course of a few months before I finally passed the test, because at the end of a long and grueling test, you had to spar everybody in the school twice for an indeterminate amount of time each, with no rest. You’re sparring one guy, then he’d yell “Go!” and the next opponent would jump up and run in to start whaling on you, while the guy you’d been sparring with quickly bowed out and sat back down. Just the sparring part at the end alone could last an hour. The first two times I couldn’t even keep my arms up I was so tired. He made you go through the entire test, even if he knew he was going to flunk you. He never charged another testing fee, either; it was a one-time $35 the first time ‘til the last time. Even if you do lots of cardio as well as anaerobic work (wind sprints, etc.), hard, continuous sparring is the most tiring physical activity. My teacher was not going to pass me if I couldn’t meet his standards, which I finally did the third time, but I could barely stand up afterwards. He couldn’t do that nowadays; he’d go out of business, or get sued by today’s parents (or adult students).

Nowadays, most martial arts schools I see seem to give belts away (including black belts) like candy. I’ve seen a 7 year-old with a black belt(!). When I got my Kenpo black belt at 17, I was considered YOUNG to be a black belt. Unlike (seemingly) most martial arts schools nowadays, the large class was virtually all adults. My teacher had high standards anyway, but he wanted to make sure I knew what it meant, not just a piece of black cloth. You were really going to earn it, not just show up, pay your fees and get coddled with a new colored belt. You didn’t ask him; HE told YOU if he thought you were ready. It was NOT fun, but I’m forever grateful to him for not making it easy for me.

Come to think of it, I passed that first black best test exactly 40 years ago this month.

The training I received from him saved my life when I later moved to Taiwan at age 21 for nearly a decade. I won’t go into that; I’ll only say that it was an attempted abduction by three men, with two other men waiting at the car.

My former Kenpo teacher and I are still in contact, even though I left his system long ago. He still has me listed as one of his black belts(!). I’ve been blessed to have found other excellent teachers, thanks to his having opened my mind up to other methods. He’s happy that I’m still training, even if it’s not in his system anymore. Such teachers are rare. I’ll always be grateful to him and my other top two martial arts teachers.

Jim

[James Y]

Something I’d like to bring up is how important it is to never underestimate (or overestimate) another person based on their age, race, gender, physical appearance, size, personality, or (in the case of martial arts) which art(s) they train in, or how impressive or unimpressive their technique may look. Or even whether they’ve had any formal training or not. I learned this both the hard way (through personal experience), as well as through observations of others learning this the hard way. I’ve also been the one who has been underestimated by others.

In real life, there is no room to underestimate others, or the potential danger of a situation in which you might spot trouble brewing, but choose to ignore it anyway. Just because someone is a skinny kid doesn’t mean they can’t present a potential danger; how much size or strength does it take to pull a trigger? Or just because a man is fat doesn’t mean he can’t be be fast enough to close the distance on you. I could go on, but the point is pretty obvious.

The person I underestimated was a student of Lung Ying (Dragon Shape) Kung Fu. I had been invited by a midddle-aged co-worker from Hong Kong who taught classes in a park. It was an opportunity to ‘play’ (spar) with some of his students. I was 20 years old and a Kenpo black belt with years of experience up to that point of sparring all kinds of opponents (Tae Kwon Doists, boxers, kickboxers, Karateka, Judoka, etc.). But never a Kung Fu practitioner. Even though my Kenpo teacher always told us to respect Kung Fu, and I was interested in it, TBH, I kinda thought it was mostly for show and less practical. I had become cocky.

That day in the park, I actually outfought my first opponent pretty easily; a taller, muscular guy training with his shirt off. I was ready to do it to my next opponent, who was just an average-looking guy practicing in his street clothes. It wasn’t even close. This guy moved in so fast and overwhelmed me repeatedly, knocking me down several times, but without injuring me (except for my pride). I’d had my butt handed to me many times before (if you haven’t, you haven’t really trained or fought anybody), but never so easily. Plus, he was actually using his style’s technique; the same movements I saw them doing in their forms, but adapted to sparring/fighting. And he had control. Finally, after he helped me up for the fifth or sixth time and asked if I wanted to continue, I said, “Naw, I’ve had enough.” And he wasn’t even the top student there.

I ended up training for a year with that teacher, but the style didn’t fit my body very well. I respect it, and it (along with my Kenpo teacher’s respect for Kung Fu systems) helped inspire me to seek out a style that did suit me when I moved to Taiwan a little over a year later, and spent nearly a decade there.

This was only a sparring match, not a real fight or life-or-death situation, and I’m lucky I learned my lesson this way. That was all it took for me (I’m a pretty quick learner). Since then, I’ve seen or had personal experiences working with martial artists whose movements weren’t necessarily impressive-looking, but they were very effective. Which was the original point of martial arts training. There is also room for those whose focus is on the artistic side, and some can do both the practical AND artistic aspects. But it’s vitally important to know the difference.

Jim

[vivi]

The Israel Adesanya vs Paulo Costa match comes to mind.




SPOILERS












Looking at physiques alone I bet a lot of people would expect Costa to win.

It wasn't even close. Complete and utter domination from the skinnier fighter.

Granted he had a reach advantage and close to 90 more professional fights than Costa, but a lot of people have it in their head that big muscles = good fighter. Technique will trump raw power easily in most situations.

[James Y]

Great example, vivi!

Another example is Japanese boxer Naoya Inoue. If he was just sitting or standing around doing nothing, most people who don’t know who he is would never guess he’s a fighter, much less possessing the toughness, aggression, killer instinct, and KO power that he has. Many would probably guess that he’s a member of some “boy band.” Some of his opponents sure didn’t believe he would be much trouble (see from 5:50 and 6:38):

https://youtu.be/R4M5NokqOPo

BTW, many of the most devastating punchers/strikers are lean-muscled or skinny-looking, without the impressive-looking muscular physiques.

Jim

[James Y]

Humbleness vs Weakness.

Being humble about one’s self and one’s own abilities is not weakness. If anything, it’s a sign of strength and greater self-confidence, because the humble person has no need to brag about him/herself to ‘prove’ to others how good they are. The braggart is doing so because he/she wants and needs the validation of others that they are, indeed, ‘good’. The humble person knows that no matter how great someone may be, ANYBODY can lose under the right circumstances, and that we always know far less than we think we do.

However, in spite of the common statements in ads for martial arts training, proper attitude and humility is not always a side-effect of training. In my nearly 47 years in and around martial arts, I’ve met surprisingly few humble martial artists. Most people associate ego tripping with young men, but I’ve seen martial arts people of all ages, both genders, and all levels, including some who are considered ‘masters’, who still had big egos around themselves and their martial art(s). In other words, some people mature out of it and some people never do.

Humbleness doesn’t have to mean self-effacing. It means modesty over one’s abilities and one’s place in the art. No matter how great a fighter or martial artist you might be, there is always someone greater than you are. Even if you became the best fighter in the world, before too long you will begin descending from your peak and someone will come along and beat you, if you keep fighting long enough. Then the same will happen to them. And on and on. The fact is, no matter which martial art you practice, nobody out there in the REAL WORLD gives a bleep about you or your martial art, which lineage you belong to, or how good you are, or think you are. Outside of the “martial arts world” (and even within it), absolutely nobody cares, except for maybe a few sycophants. NOTE: This is not directed at anybody here, but to all those people out there with martial arts superiority complexes.

In Quentin Tarantino’s latest film, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, he has a scene featuring a portrayal of Bruce Lee as a narcissistic loudmouth. It was a complete misrepresentation of words Bruce Lee had said in real life about being able to beat Muhammad Ali (IRL he had been kidding; I read it back in the ‘70s from the source who actually heard him say it). But QT clearly hadn’t gotten the memo. Now, Bruce Lee may have been cocky in many ways, but that portrayal of him in the movie was TAME compared to the arrogance and narcissism I’ve seen over the years displayed by many martial artists. If people who see the movie think the Bruce Lee character sounds ridiculous; they should hear some of the junk spouted by ordinary, non-famous martial ‘artists‘ (many whose abilities are lacking, to say the least). And I’m not only talking about people in so-called “traditional” arts. These days, there are a ton of MMA coattail riders who are exactly the same or worse. Becoming one more arrogant loudmouth brings nothing of value to this world. OTOH, a humble person actually contributes something of value to the world, as they often see beyond themselves, and respect and help others. At the very least, humble people make the world a little more pleasant.

Jim

[Naperville]

Nobody cares what anyone says about their art, it is in the knowing and the doing that matters, and you prove that through competition, regulated or unregulated, and demonstration (DVD/or downloaded files that people can watch). After the demos, it's time for some hands on, and that is where you sort it out.

I like the UFC and Bare Knuckle Fights regulated competitions for non weapons craft. For Escrima/Arnis/Kalis, I like the regulated competitions held primarily in NorCal where the majority of the US based practitioners are located.

I've learned so much watching competitions, tapes and DVDs that I would not have known. I'm over the hill, so while I may pick up a training partner here or there and work out (rarely), I enjoy watching the younger guys get it on.

[James Y]

Nobody cares what anyone says about their art, it is in the knowing and the doing that matters, and you prove that through competition, regulated or unregulated, and demonstration (DVD/or downloaded files that people can watch). After the demos, it's time for some hands on, and that is where you sort it out.

I like the UFC and Bare Knuckle Fights regulated competitions for non weapons craft. For Escrima/Arnis/Kalis, I like the regulated competitions held primarily in NorCal where the majority of the US based practitioners are located.

I've learned so much watching competitions, tapes and DVDs that I would not have known. I'm over the hill, so while I may pick up a training partner here or there and work out (rarely), I enjoy watching the younger guys get it on.

One thing I discovered through experience is that I prefer open-handed strikes for striking the head in real fighting. The chances of injuring the hands are much less than when using closed-fisted strikes, except for hammer fists thrown at varying angles, another favorite. With the proper body torque and full-power follow-through, an open-handed slap can knock somebody out, or stun a man pretty badly. Same with palm-heel thrusts and palm-heel hooks. I reserve the knuckle punches to the body.

However, it’s almost always forbidden to use open-handed strikes in competition. So in competition it’s all standard knuckle punches (with hand wraps and gloves). IMO, at least some full-contact competitive experience is valuable if possible, when the practitioner is young. But for myself, I didn’t fight the same way in the real fights defending myself that I used in competition. In my real-life experiences, there was no squaring off, no gloves, no time for ring strategy. And it had to be finished fast, and then you get the heck out of there. You don’t want to get into a ‘competition’ or sparring mindset. I also never threw any kicks on the street; whereas in competition I used many kicks, including many high kicks. I’m not saying that kicks wouldn’t work on the street, I just never threw a kick in a ‘real-life’ fight. And I certainly wouldn’t have attempted any high kicks in a fight outside of a competitive setting. Completely different mindset and strategies.

Free-sparring a lot during one’s developmental stages is essential, but it’s a training method and a tool that differs from how real attacks occur.

These are only some of my personal experiences and observations. Yours and others will be different.

Jim

[Naperville]

Open hand slap is allowed in UFC. It is more used to humiliate someone to draw their ire, which is fine by me. If you lose your head in a UFC fight, the competitor will probably defeat you easily.

https://youtu.be/GwxF07RJaSM

[James Y]

Never saw that one before. Thanks.

The type of street slap I was talking about is not about humiliating someone. It hits the ear/jaw area, and is more like this:

https://youtu.be/gVsloCJDYjE



Jim

[vivi]

Nobody cares what anyone says about their art, it is in the knowing and the doing that matters, and you prove that through competition, regulated or unregulated, and demonstration (DVD/or downloaded files that people can watch). After the demos, it's time for some hands on, and that is where you sort it out.

I like the UFC and Bare Knuckle Fights regulated competitions for non weapons craft. For Escrima/Arnis/Kalis, I like the regulated competitions held primarily in NorCal where the majority of the US based practitioners are located.

I've learned so much watching competitions, tapes and DVDs that I would not have known. I'm over the hill, so while I may pick up a training partner here or there and work out (rarely), I enjoy watching the younger guys get it on.

One thing I discovered through experience is that I prefer open-handed strikes for striking the head in real fighting. The chances of injuring the hands are much less than when using closed-fisted strikes, except for hammer fists thrown at varying angles, another favorite. With the proper body torque and full-power follow-through, an open-handed slap can knock somebody out, or stun a man pretty badly. Same with palm-heel thrusts and palm-heel hooks. I reserve the knuckle punches to the body.

However, it’s almost always forbidden to use open-handed strikes in competition. So in competition it’s all standard knuckle punches (with hand wraps and gloves). IMO, at least some full-contact competitive experience is valuable if possible, when the practitioner is young. But for myself, I didn’t fight the same way in the real fights defending myself that I used in competition. In my real-life experiences, there was no squaring off, no gloves, no time for ring strategy. And it had to be finished fast, and then you get the heck out of there. You don’t want to get into a ‘competition’ or sparring mindset. I also never threw any kicks on the street; whereas in competition I used many kicks, including many high kicks. I’m not saying that kicks wouldn’t work on the street, I just never threw a kick in a ‘real-life’ fight. And I certainly wouldn’t have attempted any high kicks in a fight outside of a competitive setting. Completely different mindset and strategies.

Free-sparring a lot during one’s developmental stages is essential, but it’s a training method and a tool that differs from how real attacks occur.

These are only some of my personal experiences and observations. Yours and others will be different.

Jim

Interesting. I've solved a handful of street disputes with a good ol front kick to the face. I've always felt kicks had a lot of upsides in those scenarios. They're unexpected. They have greater range than punches. You don't risk breaking a hand. They have tremendous power. I can't remember the last time I punched someone in the head outside of sparring. It's either kicks or clinch when SHTF for me.

I do agree open hand strikes can generate lots of power. You'll really enjoy vintage Bas Rutten, he wrecked people with them:

https://youtu.be/O6JUZjx0xOI

That's a short highlight reel. He has some videos on his channel specifically covering his palm strike technique. He loved throwing them to the liver.

The 90's were a fun time in MMA. While I appreciate how much the sport has progressed in the past 20 years, I really enjoyed the old days of no weight classes, barely any rules and people trained in specific styles taking on others trained in a different single style. Sumo VS Karate, BJJ vs Wrestling, that sort of thing.

[James Y]

Nobody cares what anyone says about their art, it is in the knowing and the doing that matters, and you prove that through competition, regulated or unregulated, and demonstration (DVD/or downloaded files that people can watch). After the demos, it's time for some hands on, and that is where you sort it out.

I like the UFC and Bare Knuckle Fights regulated competitions for non weapons craft. For Escrima/Arnis/Kalis, I like the regulated competitions held primarily in NorCal where the majority of the US based practitioners are located.

I've learned so much watching competitions, tapes and DVDs that I would not have known. I'm over the hill, so while I may pick up a training partner here or there and work out (rarely), I enjoy watching the younger guys get it on.

One thing I discovered through experience is that I prefer open-handed strikes for striking the head in real fighting. The chances of injuring the hands are much less than when using closed-fisted strikes, except for hammer fists thrown at varying angles, another favorite. With the proper body torque and full-power follow-through, an open-handed slap can knock somebody out, or stun a man pretty badly. Same with palm-heel thrusts and palm-heel hooks. I reserve the knuckle punches to the body.

However, it’s almost always forbidden to use open-handed strikes in competition. So in competition it’s all standard knuckle punches (with hand wraps and gloves). IMO, at least some full-contact competitive experience is valuable if possible, when the practitioner is young. But for myself, I didn’t fight the same way in the real fights defending myself that I used in competition. In my real-life experiences, there was no squaring off, no gloves, no time for ring strategy. And it had to be finished fast, and then you get the heck out of there. You don’t want to get into a ‘competition’ or sparring mindset. I also never threw any kicks on the street; whereas in competition I used many kicks, including many high kicks. I’m not saying that kicks wouldn’t work on the street, I just never threw a kick in a ‘real-life’ fight. And I certainly wouldn’t have attempted any high kicks in a fight outside of a competitive setting. Completely different mindset and strategies.

Free-sparring a lot during one’s developmental stages is essential, but it’s a training method and a tool that differs from how real attacks occur.

These are only some of my personal experiences and observations. Yours and others will be different.

Jim

Interesting. I've solved a handful of street disputes with a good ol front kick to the face. I've always felt kicks had a lot of upsides in those scenarios. They're unexpected. They have greater range than punches. You don't risk breaking a hand. They have tremendous power. I can't remember the last time I punched someone in the head outside of sparring. It's either kicks or clinch when SHTF for me.

I do agree open hand strikes can generate lots of power. You'll really enjoy vintage Bas Rutten, he wrecked people with them:

https://youtu.be/O6JUZjx0xOI

That's a short highlight reel. He has some videos on his channel specifically covering his palm strike technique. He loved throwing them to the liver.

The 90's were a fun time in MMA. While I appreciate how much the sport has progressed in the past 20 years, I really enjoyed the old days of no weight classes, barely any rules and people trained in specific styles taking on others trained in a different single style. Sumo VS Karate, BJJ vs Wrestling, that sort of thing.

Hi, vivi.

Yes, I agree that Bas Rutten was an absolute beast. His palm strike was what I call a palm heel hook. He was one of the MMA fighters I took a greater interest in. I also agree that the ‘90s was an interesting time in MMA. It’s really evolved into a better sport since then, but I still feel that Bas Rutten is one of the most interesting fighters to come out of MMA up to this day.

The great thing about heel of palm strikes is that you’re actually striking with the ends of the forearm bones, as opposed to knuckle joints, as in punches. The first time I saw Bas Rutten use his palm heel hooks, I was surprised to see them used in competition. But IIRC, the organization he used them in is no longer around.

The last time I got into a real fight was in the very early 1990s. Luckily I was usually smart and avoided them, but a few I didn’t. It was the last few that I realized the effectiveness of slaps and heel of palm strikes, almost by accident. The martial art I was practicing at the time did have such strikes, but I never emphasized them in practice. Then in one fight, for some reason I slapped a guy hard only once (with the flat palm), and it put his lights out. After that, the lightbulb went off in my head regarding the efficiency of open-hand strikes. I’m 57 now and have successfully avoided getting into any street fights since my late 20s, and I won’t fight unless something completely unavoidable happened. And TBH, the vast majority of them can be avoided. Also, there are huge differences between ‘mutual combat‘ fights and attacks by predatory criminals.

As far as kicks go, I don’t know why I never kicked in a street fight. Even though when I was young I had good kicking ability, and had stopped some guys with kicks in competition (mostly side kicks, spinning back kicks, roundhouse kicks, etc.). Within the last few years I’ve had some nagging injuries (non-martial arts-related) that have affected my kicks, so they are no longer what they once were.

The last time I competed in a sport fighting competition was in 1997. If I ever were in another real-life (non-sporting) situation that was unavoidable, I won’t be playing around with sparring strategies. You simply cannot afford to do that on the street, especially the older you get, AND especially if it involves multiple people and/or weapons.

Several years ago in my area, a young MMA guy got into an altercation at a beach area bar. The bouncers kicked him and the other guy out of the bar. So they decided to fight it out in the parking lot. According to the reports, MMA guy quickly took the other guy down, mounted him, and was jockeying for position. The other guy started “punching” him from underneath. It turned out the other guy’s “punches” were actually stabs with his “pocket knife”. He stabbed the MMA guy over a dozen times. The MMA guy died. I’m pretty sure the guy with the knife went to prison, but I kind of lost track of the story in the news (it was in the local news sometime before 2008). That’s one of the risks of ego (mutual combat) fights to prove one’s manhood (over perceived insults or whatever). One guy may see it as a type of competition or ‘honor’ fight, but the other guy may see things differently, or panic, and escalate it to the next level.

Jim

[vivi]

Wise words. I bounced for a spell, and had knives drawn on me. Even when things got physical, I'd try my best to avoid strikes and try to wrap them up from behind and carry them off the property.

The best martial artists knowhow to not fight. How to use their words and body languageto de-escalate situations. There's usually no winners in a street fight, only different degrees of losers. Even if you "win," chances are slim you'll come out physicall unscathed and legally in the clear.

It simply isn't worth it.

[James Y]

REFLECTIONS ON A MARTIAL ARTS “RIOT” (OR MASS BRAWL)

Back in 1981, at the then-named San Diego Sports Arena was held the city’s first large-scale “full-contact karate” kickboxing program (and as it turned out, it was also the last). The program started out with various martial arts demonstrations in the ring. The Kenpo school I was with at the time gave one of those demos. After all the demos were done, our group sat in the upper (2nd) level overlooking everything with an excellent view.

I saw a lot of famous names in the martial arts world at the time who were in attendance. These famous names were featured a lot in Black Belt Magazine, Karate Illustrated, Official Karate, etc., magazines. One was a famous kickboxer from L.A., and one was a then-local guy who was the nation’s top-rated American-style Karate point fighting champion. At one point, this local point fighting champion had a competitive rivalry with Billy Blanks (who later became famous for his “Taebo” cardio kickboxing fitness program). There were other “famous” names there, but for obvious reasons, I’m not going to name them here.

To give a visual, at ground level, there was the ring, and lots of metal folding chairs set up in rows for the floor-level audience. There also could have been bleacher-style seating, but I’m a little hazy on that. All the seats were filled, and there were lots of guys standing and milling around on the floor as well.

The kickboxing matches began. The first few matches went smoothly enough. Then during one match, between two fighters from the L.A. area (one who happened to be black, and the other Hispanic), there was a close decision, and it went to one of the fighters. There was loud disapproval voiced from the large group of the opposing fighter’s supporters. Supporters of the opposing fighter, who were sitting in the same section, kept turning around and yelling at the winner’s supporters. Suddenly, these two large groups got up and walked to a more open area. Two men began a furious fight, then suddenly everyone on both sides erupted into fighting.

There was a third group seated separately; roughly two dozen members of a well-known outlaw motorcycle gang, which I won’t name, but the name of which everyone has heard of. These guys were bigger, fatter, and older than members of the other two groups; they looked to be at least in their 40s or so. Suddenly, for some reason, they got up and jumped into the fight.

The two large groups who were originally fighting, one comprising African-Americans and the other Hispanic, temporarily stopped fighting each other and teamed up against the motorcycle gang. The fight was pandemonium; I’d never seen anything like it before or since. Meanwhile, the two fighters whose fight was the original cause of the melee, stood in the ring dumbfounded at the chaos on the floor. The announcer was saying over the sound system in a slow but slightly high-pitched southern drawl: “Please! Ever’body stop fightin’! This ain’t the way we settle things! If you wanna settle things, then sign up and settle ‘em in the ring, like sportsmen. This ain’t the way we do things! Please! Can we git some security down here? Security?” But security were only a few old men in uniforms on the 2nd level, who were standing behind us, hands folded in front of them and watching impassively.

A middle-aged guy I knew from Kenpo, who later became famous for selling videos of himself breaking coconuts with his hands, suddenly stood up and pointed at one of the outlaw bikers and said, “Hey! I know that guy from prison!” (He resembled a biker himself, but wasn’t). So he goes down onto the floor, taps the shoulder of an obese biker (who was in the middle of fighting two guys), and the biker slowly wheels around and, in slow motion, punches him in the face. He staggered back, also in slow motion, about ten feet, and fell into some folding chairs. Shortly after, he comes back up, grabs his wife and says indignantly, “We’re leaving.”

The fight down below was way out of hand. More metal chairs were flying through the air and used as weapons than at a WWE “tables, ladders and chairs” match. The top-rated point fighter (who was a huge guy) was seen hiding under a table after being knocked down and stomped on. After maybe 10 minutes or more (which is a LONG TIME for a brawl to go on), the fighting began to die down, as the outlaw bikers were mostly left strewn all over the floor. Then the African-American group walked over to a clear area, stood in a line shoulder-to-shoulder, then uttered a group yell, “Huh!” while simultaneously assuming identical “Kenpo” fighting stances (looking almost choreographed, like they’d done it many times before), re-challenging the Hispanic group. who started swaggering over to them. Then the announcer drawled over the sound system: “Ladies and gentlemen, this event is over. We apologize, but SOME of us are unable to conduct ourselves like martial artists. Ever’body, please exit the arena. The authorities have been notified.” So we all left. But we’d had a perfect vantage point from the 2nd level, directly above it.

Writing about it doesn’t really do justice to the sheer scope of the chaos that we witnessed. You couldn’t have written this for a movie, because it would have been too unbelievable. I wished someone had videotaped it, but at the time, not many people had video cameras.

Jim

[James Y]

MARTIAL ARTS INHERITANCE?

Although I’ve never had any kids myself, I’ve known several masters who taught their kids (sons and/or daughters) their martial arts. Some of these masters were, or are, extremely high-level. One I was acquainted with was one of my grand-teachers in Taiwan. He was highly respected by other contemporary masters, and was considered to be one of Taiwan’s Living Treasures. He had both a son and a daughter, both of whom had moved to the States. But neither ever reached a level that came anywhere close to their father.

I’ve seen the same thing repeatedly in cases of the children of masters of many different martial arts. (BTW, I don’t particularly like the word “master’ or ‘grandmaster’ in referring to martial artists, but am doing so out of respect to the individuals I’m discussing, but who shall remain nameless here). I cannot think of one instance where the child has ever equaled or exceeded the martial arts ability of their father. I’m sure it’s happened somewhere, but I’m not personally aware of it. It always has to do with motivation. The child is simply not motivated, at least not to the degree their father was. I could also say ‘mother’, but all of the cases I’m aware of involved fathers, so that’s the word I’m using, for simplicity’s sake.

In some cases, the fathers required (read: forced) their kid(s) to train, up to a certain age. Which in some cases has resulted in the sons (or daughters) actually becoming good, in spite of (not because of) being forced to train and hating it. But in all the cases I’m aware of, they never even approached their fathers’ level, and the vast majority stopped training as soon as they were able to.

It was a tradition in martial arts for teachers to pass down their art within the family. But that tradition has long been outdated in the modern era. Martial arts are no longer considered a requirement for the survival of a village, or a clan; and there are other technologies for the battlefield. Now they are more for self-defense, personal development (which can include competitive sports fighting), and perhaps even artistic expression. The motivation to train must come from within; it cannot be forced and used to mold someone into one’s own image. It is especially difficult with traditional Chinese martial arts, which (if learned and trained correctly) are difficult and painful, especially in the earlier stages, and require extreme amounts of self-motivation to excel at.

Even if I HAD had kids, I would not have required them to train. In fact, they would have had to ask me, repeatedly, which I highly doubt would have happened. And since I stopped teaching nearly 15 years ago, I no longer feel any pressure to ‘pass the art down’. But during the years I taught, the students worth teaching were the self-motivated ones, whom I recommended to other teachers after I stopped. A couple of whom were quite good, and continued their training. I am proud to have been a part of their journey.

Jim

[James Y]

I have to correct myself a bit from my last post. I had somehow completely forgotten about Charlene Houghton, the daughter of Hung Gar Kung Fu expert Mark Houghton. She is very passionate about her father’s art, and has also trained, as well as competed in, MMA in Hong Kong. She has the “it” factor of someone who will carry the art(s) forward.

Her father, Mark Houghton, is the disciple who was chosen by the late Master Lau Kar-Leung to carry on the Lau Family’s Hung Gar legacy. Although originally from England, he has literally spent the majority of his life living in Asia (mostly Hong Kong and Malaysia). There are very few martial artists who are as hard-core as Mark Houghton. He currently runs a large Hung Gar school in Foshan, China.

Here are a couple of Charlene Houghton’s vids:

Hung Gar (AKA Hung Kuen) “Iron Wire” training, with her father, Mark Houghton. Note: The hitting with the stick bundle (or wire bundle) is NOT abuse, it is an adjunct of training that particular set. Some other systems use similar training methods as well.

https://youtu.be/YOPQ9hBZCqA

Iron “Bridge Hand” (forearm) conditioning/hardening. The wooden dummy shown at the beginning is not a Wing Chun dummy, but is a Choy Lee Fut wooden dummy. This is only one of the many methods that can be used for developing the “Bridge Hand”.

https://youtu.be/c6w_RCABtW8

Jim

[vivi]

Funny you mention training kids. I just picked up a Century Kid Kick and used it to teach some kickboxing basics to the neighborhood kids. Showed them the basics of a boxing stance, how to throw a jab and a 1-2, then showed them basic kicks.

Also used a pool noodle to work on their defense. Was a fun evening for everyone.

The Kid Kick also works ok for me to practice low kicks. I can't practice leg kicks on my heavy bag, and muay thai bags have been hard to find lately.