Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

Here's another "chi/qi" fraud:

https://youtu.be/utjfk7ucsqs

Jim

[Doc Dan]

Wow! I put this up for a laugh. Well, the full story is that no-touch master had challenged the guy in the black shirt. He claimed no one could hit him and pushed the issue. He is a fake martial artist. The other guy did not really try to hurt him. He just showed that the guy was a fake. He could have hit him much harder and more directly, but didn't.

[James Y]

Wow! I put this up for a laugh. Well, the full story is that no-touch master had challenged the guy in the black shirt. He claimed no one could hit him and pushed the issue. He is a fake martial artist. The other guy did not really try to hurt him. He just showed that the guy was a fake. He could have hit him much harder and more directly, but didn't.

I appreciate you posting it, Dan, even if I can't stand 'no-touch master' types. I really liked the way the other guy put just enough pop in his punches to hurt and stun the fake MAist enough, without REALLY injuring him. That actually takes a lot of control.

Jim

[max808]

Wow! I put this up for a laugh. Well, the full story is that no-touch master had challenged the guy in the black shirt. He claimed no one could hit him and pushed the issue. He is a fake martial artist. The other guy did not really try to hurt him. He just showed that the guy was a fake. He could have hit him much harder and more directly, but didn't.

Even the title of the video is fake because in their first exchange right after the jazz hands demonstration the challenger simply presents his fist resulting in the no touch master actually touching him all over.

[Naperville]

I was in a martial art for almost 2 years that was less than ethical. I don't think that parents should drop their kids off to do martial arts after school, unless the parents are enrolled in the same class and can watch over their children, and know first hand what they are being taught.

I was in John C. Kim's Chung Mo Quan. There are a lot of silly stories about what it was, but most of them are inaccurate.

WHAT IT WAS
You definitely learned how to kick and throw strikes. Sparring was full contact. I saw people pass out while training, and they were simply dragged off of the mat. It was many times harder than any P90X fitness class you could get into. It bordered on torture. There were certain aspects of mind control in it too. Some called it a cult, but it was more of a gang.

To get in shape for footing and foundation concrete work, I thought I would take it up, and so I signed on the dotted line. They were infamous for their contracts. It was like signing away your life to join a martial arts monastery.

The instructors gave special attention to the weakest links in the class, but everyone and everything was scrutinized. Nobody did anything perfectly and they would not accept anything less than 100%.

After hundreds of strikes and kicks, and almost a full hour of hard core calisthenics you were ready to start class, which could last 2 to 4 hours.

When sparring, if you pulled your punches, instructors would kick you in the behind and warn you verbally. No pads were ever handed out. There were a lot of folks sporting fat lips and black eyes the day/week after sparring class was held.

I saw 10 to 15 people go into a room where they had to grab buckets of sand, squat down and walk like a duck, then hold the buckets of sand out at their side...the lights in the room were turned off, and they proceeded to walk in a circle past the open doorway. The anguish from the grunting and groaning was heard by everyone. This was called the bagua-walk.

There is more. A lot more. Point of the story is, some may benefit from this type of hardening and toughening up. Know what you're getting into!

[James Y]

I was in a martial art for almost 2 years that was less than ethical. I don't think that parents should drop their kids off to do martial arts after school, unless the parents are enrolled in the same class and can watch over their children, and know first hand what they are being taught.

I was in John C. Kim's Chung Mo Quan. There are a lot of silly stories about what it was, but most of them are inaccurate.

WHAT IT WAS
You definitely learned how to kick and throw strikes. Sparring was full contact. I saw people pass out while training, and they were simply dragged off of the mat. It was many times harder than any P90X fitness class you could get into. It bordered on torture. There were certain aspects of mind control in it too. Some called it a cult, but it was more of a gang.

To get in shape for footing and foundation concrete work, I thought I would take it up, and so I signed on the dotted line. They were infamous for their contracts. It was like signing away your life to join a martial arts monastery.

The instructors gave special attention to the weakest links in the class, but everyone and everything was scrutinized. Nobody did anything perfectly and they would not accept anything less than 100%.

After hundreds of strikes and kicks, and almost a full hour of hard core calisthenics you were ready to start class, which could last 2 to 4 hours.

When sparring, if you pulled your punches, instructors would kick you in the behind and warn you verbally. No pads were ever handed out. There were a lot of folks sporting fat lips and black eyes the day/week after sparring class was held.

I saw 10 to 15 people go into a room where they had to grab buckets of sand, squat down and walk like a duck, then hold the buckets of sand out at their side...the lights in the room were turned off, and they proceeded to walk in a circle past the open doorway. The anguish from the grunting and groaning was heard by everyone. This was called the bagua-walk.

There is more. A lot more. Point of the story is, some may benefit from this type of hardening and toughening up. Know what you're getting into!

There is a book about that, “Herding the Moo: Exploits of a Martial Arts Cult.”

This might sound bad, but back in the ‘80s (and possibly into the ‘90s), there were several schools run by Korean instructors or ‘grandmasters’ who ran their schools like cults. Probably saw what Reverend Moon was doing with his Unification Church and wanted to model themselves after that. I even read about one that was run by a Korean woman who treated her students like slaves. Those types of people are psychopaths. Back in the early ‘80s, I actually visited a Korean martial arts school like that, and I think I mentioned it somewhere earlier in this thread.

With the rise of MMA, I haven’t heard of that type of stuff happening as much anymore. But I would still be cautious about training at any school run by a teacher from Korea.

Jim

[Naperville]

There is a book about that, “Herding the Moo: Exploits of a Martial Arts Cult.”

This might sound bad, but back in the ‘80s (and possibly into the ‘90s), there were several schools run by Korean instructors or ‘grandmasters’ who ran their schools like cults. Probably saw what Reverend Moon was doing with his Unification Church and wanted to model themselves after that. I even read about one that was run by a Korean woman who treated her students like slaves. Those types of people are psychopaths. Back in the early ‘80s, I actually visited a Korean martial arts school like that, and I think I mentioned it somewhere earlier in this thread.

With the rise of MMA, I haven’t heard of that type of stuff happening as much anymore. But I would still be cautious about training at any school run by a teacher from Korea.

Jim

I have the Chung Mo Quan book, but I did not read it completely. Maybe some day.

Martial arts can hold a societal function, recognizing heritage. I know two guys who could not fulfill the requirements for guro and they are known as master's and even grandmaster's now. All that does is to make them all look bad, but it's not my place to call it out since I have far less standing. All that I can do is roll my eyes.

[twinboysdad]

I still say if you live in the heartland of America, even the coasts or SE where I am, for kids folkstyle wrestling is where it is at. My son took two clubs to find the one that resonated and has gotten really good for middle school level. The strength and confidence he’s developed is nothing any TMA we have locally could have developed and absolutely would not have developed the ability to physically dominate another person of his same weight. Where I grew up didn’t have wrestling, but I cannot say enough great things about what it can do for a kid. Both of my boys, when young, went to a Yoshukai belt factory teacher who taught them nothing about fighting, life, or hard work… pugnando veritas. In fighting there is truth. Nothing more truthful than shaking your opponent’s hand, having 6 minutes to scrap, and then shaking his hand and one of you getting your hand raised in front of all there. Better man won. My kid has beaten athletic freaks and lost to pudgy kids he was more skilled than- but that day the best man won

[Naperville]

I still say if you live in the heartland of America, even the coasts or SE where I am, for kids folkstyle wrestling is where it is at. My son took two clubs to find the one that resonated and has gotten really good for middle school level. The strength and confidence he’s developed is nothing any TMA we have locally could have developed and absolutely would not have developed the ability to physically dominate another person of his same weight. Where I grew up didn’t have wrestling, but I cannot say enough great things about what it can do for a kid. Both of my boys, when young, went to a Yoshukai belt factory teacher who taught them nothing about fighting, life, or hard work… pugnando veritas. In fighting there is truth. Nothing more truthful than shaking your opponent’s hand, having 6 minutes to scrap, and then shaking his hand and one of you getting your hand raised in front of all there. Better man won. My kid has beaten athletic freaks and lost to pudgy kids he was more skilled than- but that day the best man won

I wish that I had participated in wrestling from 7th grade through high school but my schedule was very full. I was in hockey and bicycle racing.

[James Y]

I’m glad that my introduction to martial arts was Judo. To me, a good grappling art at a good school (or gym) is better for young kids starting out than a striking art.

Since I respect Judo so much, why didn’t I just stick with that, instead of going into Karate, and later, Chinese martial arts? It’s an odd reason. I had taken to Judo very naturally, and as a kid had been more afraid of fist fighting than throwing and grappling. I became more obsessed with being able to strike and standup fight with confidence.

Luckily, the Kenpo school I joined was hard-core for a martial arts school by today’s standards. It also wasn’t “traditional,” in that the training took a less formal, more practical approach. There were no formal rituals, other than a quick, informal bow before and after class, partner training, and sparring. We always sparred with boxing gloves, and the sparring included groin strikes (a proper athletic cup and mouthpiece were mandatory) and takedowns. My teacher had been well-versed in wrestling and boxing before he took up Kenpo. We often cross-trained/sparred with professional kickboxers, boxers, and martial artists from other styles. There was also an emphasis on conditioning, and during that part of training, the teacher often put on music. This mix was very unusual back in the 1970s/early 1980s. Some people might think this sounds haphazard, but it was not; it produced people who could really fight. I always trained with adults, who composed the bulk of the school. I was the only kid who lasted during the 7 years I was there. The few other kids who started before or after me always quit, because the training and the sparring was too much for them. There were times I hated it, but somehow I stuck with it.

I also trained in Shito-ryu Karate, and while also very tough, it was more militant, was very formalized, and I found the training in the Kenpo school I trained at to be far more versatile, natural and realistic.

Some of the training I had at both schools would be considered borderline abusive by today’s standards, but not in the psychopathic “John C. Kim” type of way. At the time, I just thought that’s how martial arts training was supposed to be, and just accepted it. The Judo dojo I’d trained at was very tough, so I was accustomed to rough training. If you look at martial arts throughout most of history, training was abusive by today’s standards. ‘Abusive’ in that if you couldn’t hack it, nobody was going to hold your hand. Maybe I was just lucky, because I’m grateful for having received the hard early training that I did. It later saved my life at age 21, when three gangsters tried to abduct me into a car in Taiwan.

Nowadays, you couldn’t run a non-MMA martial arts school in that manner. Kids and adults alike would quit. And since the ‘90s or so, a lot of “traditional martial arts,” especially Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, etc., appears to have mostly gone soft. IMO, any martial arts school whose main focus is kids’ classes, with no strong base of long-time adult students, is heavily watered down. Schools that cater mostly to kids, or ‘family Karate’ lower their standards to make it fun and maintain enrollment, and constantly attract new students. Anything harder will drive them away, and may leave them open to lawsuits.

The last time I attended a martial arts tournament of any kind was just to spectate, back in 2011, and the quality of the participants, even at the advanced levels, was pretty sad. Depressing, actually. It looked as if most of them didn’t even have the basics down. I hate sounding like “the old guy,” but I can say with certainty that standards, at least in the standup martial arts, were much higher (in the good schools) back in the ‘70s and ‘80s than they are today. That also coincides with adult interest. The number of people who either start as kids and continue training through their adulthood, or who begin as adults and stick with it, is MUCH lower today than in decades past, because overall interest in martial arts training is much lower.

Jim

[Naperville]

One of the schools I attended, Bahala Na, and my deceased Grand Master Antonio Somera are in Masters Magazine this month! Might make an interesting read/keepsake.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09W1SFVBX?re ... _397514860

[Naperville]

I’m glad that my introduction to martial arts was Judo. To me, a good grappling art at a good school (or gym) is better for young kids starting out than a striking art.

Since I respect Judo so much, why didn’t I just stick with that, instead of going into Karate, and later, Chinese martial arts? It’s an odd reason. I had taken to Judo very naturally, and as a kid had been more afraid of fist fighting than throwing and grappling. I became more obsessed with being able to strike and standup fight with confidence.

Luckily, the Kenpo school I joined was hard-core for a martial arts school by today’s standards. It also wasn’t “traditional,” in that the training took a less formal, more practical approach. There were no formal rituals, other than a quick, informal bow before and after class, partner training, and sparring. We always sparred with boxing gloves, and the sparring included groin strikes (a proper athletic cup and mouthpiece were mandatory) and takedowns. My teacher had been well-versed in wrestling and boxing before he took up Kenpo. We often cross-trained/sparred with professional kickboxers, boxers, and martial artists from other styles. There was also an emphasis on conditioning, and during that part of training, the teacher often put on music. This mix was very unusual back in the 1970s/early 1980s. Some people might think this sounds haphazard, but it was not; it produced people who could really fight. I always trained with adults, who composed the bulk of the school. I was the only kid who lasted during the 7 years I was there. The few other kids who started before or after me always quit, because the training and the sparring was too much for them. There were times I hated it, but somehow I stuck with it.

I also trained in Shito-ryu Karate, and while also very tough, it was more militant, was very formalized, and I found the training in the Kenpo school I trained at to be far more versatile, natural and realistic.

Some of the training I had at both schools would be considered borderline abusive by today’s standards, but not in the psychopathic “John C. Kim” type of way. At the time, I just thought that’s how martial arts training was supposed to be, and just accepted it. The Judo dojo I’d trained at was very tough, so I was accustomed to rough training. If you look at martial arts throughout most of history, training was abusive by today’s standards. ‘Abusive’ in that if you couldn’t hack it, nobody was going to hold your hand. Maybe I was just lucky, because I’m grateful for having received the hard early training that I did. It later saved my life at age 21, when three gangsters tried to abduct me into a car in Taiwan.

Nowadays, you couldn’t run a non-MMA martial arts school in that manner. Kids and adults alike would quit. And since the ‘90s or so, a lot of “traditional martial arts,” especially Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, etc., appears to have mostly gone soft. IMO, any martial arts school whose main focus is kids’ classes, with no strong base of long-time adult students, is heavily watered down. Schools that cater mostly to kids, or ‘family Karate’ lower their standards to make it fun and maintain enrollment, and constantly attract new students. Anything harder will drive them away, and may leave them open to lawsuits.

The last time I attended a martial arts tournament of any kind was just to spectate, back in 2011, and the quality of the participants, even at the advanced levels, was pretty sad. Depressing, actually. It looked as if most of them didn’t even have the basics down. I hate sounding like “the old guy,” but I can say with certainty that standards, at least in the standup martial arts, were much higher (in the good schools) back in the ‘70s and ‘80s than they are today. That also coincides with adult interest. The number of people who either start as kids and continue training through their adulthood, or who begin as adults and stick with it, is MUCH lower today than in decades past, because overall interest in martial arts training is much lower.

Jim

My first school was Judo too. I took it at the YMCA with my father. I was in it for about a year and a half and then had my appendix out and was afraid to go back to class. I was of course an ignorant boy and had nothing to fear, but the operation had me freaked out.

I'd love to open a combatives/martial arts school. It would be a mix of everything that I ever learned about conditioning and martial arts. It would be hilariously difficult.

[James Y]

My first school was Judo too. I took it at the YMCA with my father. I was in it for about a year and a half and then had my appendix out and was afraid to go back to class. I was of course an ignorant boy and had nothing to fear, but the operation had me freaked out.

I'd love to open a combatives/martial arts school. It would be a mix of everything that I ever learned about conditioning and martial arts. It would be hilariously difficult.

With your practical experience, I bet you'd be a good teacher and a stern taskmaster.

Jim

[James Y]

Chuck Norris Teaches Dave Letterman Karate

This originally aired on 8/21/1980.


https://youtu.be/zwFbk-9NrKk

Jim

[Naperville]

My first school was Judo too. I took it at the YMCA with my father. I was in it for about a year and a half and then had my appendix out and was afraid to go back to class. I was of course an ignorant boy and had nothing to fear, but the operation had me freaked out.

I'd love to open a combatives/martial arts school. It would be a mix of everything that I ever learned about conditioning and martial arts. It would be hilariously difficult.

With your practical experience, I bet you'd be a good teacher and a stern taskmaster.

Jim

I think I'll wait until I'm 70 to 75 then start it up. I even have a name for the business, but I'm not going to say it. It would be a blend of conditioning and martial arts though. But it would NOT be known as a martial arts dojo. I'd never do that. I don't have the lineage through graduation certificates, but I do from dabbling. It's better to be humble. Then everyone that I know would be happy for me as I would not be seen as a competitor, which I certainly do not plan to do in any way.

[James Y]

How to Fight Taller Guys (video below)

First off, IMO, you should NEVER willingly enter into a 'monkey dance' with someone who wants to start trouble. Then again, who am I to give advice to anyone? In my 20s, not counting the attempted kidnapping, I engaged in some stupid street fights that could've easily been avoided. That they went my way was simply LUCKY for me. Lucky all around.

This video gives some good tips, but real life is dynamic, and things happen very quickly. Real life has too many variables. Every situation is different. What seems like it might work in one situation won't necessarily work in another. Also, there are some people who simply can't punch hard; certainly not with enough penetration to knock the wind out of an aggressive larger man; or who don't have the mental commitment to do it.

Growing up in martial arts, almost all of my training and sparring partners here in the States were adults, and were considerably larger than me. The tallest sparring partner I remember was 6' 7". Growing to only 5' 9" barefoot, when I competed as an adult, most of my opponents in my weight division were naturally bigger than me. Some cut weight down from heavier divisions, specifically so they could fight smaller opponents. So facing larger guys was never any more daunting for me than facing guys my size or smaller. Facing my size or smaller felt weird to me. Even when I trained in Taiwan, several of my training partners were Europeans averaging in the 6' to 6' 2" range...not all that tall, IMO, but around the size I was accustomed to training with, and taller than the average Taiwanese.

https://youtu.be/z3AN75RfY-Y

Jim

[James Y]

Judo vs Freestyle Wrestling

Good match between two very good practitioners. IMO, both combat sports are roughly equivalent on the mat, all else being equal. My personal preference happens to be Judo, but YMMV...

https://youtu.be/cMLzQD6o4Ts

Jim

[James Y]

Family Beef Leads to Crazy Knife Fight Between Coworkers

The reason I'm posting this video from this guy's channel is because, AFAIK, it's the only way to see the footage of this incident on YT. It's not clear, but the knife the defender used to deadly effect appears to be a folder, possibly in the 3.5" to 4" blade range. I'm betting that neither man had any martial arts training, but this type of footage is important for anyone even remotely interested in martial arts and/or self-defense to learn from. People can theorize all they want to about how things will or should happen, but nothing compares to footage of actual incidences.

Although this guy gives some good advice, most of which is simple, common sense, I find him far too wordy and annoying. He does give some good details as to why the incident happened, but it's easy enough to mute him if you just want to watch and learn from the footage in peace.

https://youtu.be/sin7wIS5jRI

Jim

[James Y]

"The Last Time I Chose Violence"

Tim Larkin shares a personal story.

https://youtu.be/oxNAGNPvVmo

Jim

[twinboysdad]

Judo vs Freestyle Wrestling

Good match between two very good practitioners. IMO, both combat sports are roughly equivalent on the mat, all else being equal. My personal preference happens to be Judo, but YMMV...

https://youtu.be/cMLzQD6o4Ts

Jim

I favor wrestling for the ability to find decent instruction and compete at the school level, but my exposure was personally to Judo and I took about a year in my mid 20’s. Very effective but we moved and a BJJ school was closer