Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

Martial Arts vs Street Fighting: Geoff Thompson Interview (video below):

Everything Geoff Thompson says here is 100% true. There is a world of difference between a real street fight and training in a martial arts school and sparring/sport fighting, whether it’s in a dojo, a dojang, a kwoon, an MMA gym, etc.

I remember back in the ‘90s receiving unsolicited mailings advertising Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, saying that 98% of all fights end up on the ground (how they came to that scientific conclusion, I haven’t a clue). I also remember reading discussions on a martial arts forum back in early 2K, where BJJ and “NHB” (No-Holds-Barred, later called MMA) practitioners stated with authority that their method was superior for self-defense, and the idea that strangers will kick your head in while you’re grappling with someone is fiction. Another guy said that anyone pulling a knife is “chicken-****,” and if the other guy pulled a knife, he would “just take his little pen knife away from him and spank him.” The arrogance and delusion among some people is mind-boggling. I’ve posted about, as well as posted videos of, instances where expert grapplers were stabbed (fatally), shot (fatally) beaten into unconsciousness/coma, etc.

If anyone thinks I'm anti-grappling, my first martial art was Judo. And I also trained in BJJ many years later. Grappling definitely has its place, but like everything else, it DOES NOT render the practitioner invincible.

TBH, much of martial arts in modern times has little to do with actual self-defense, and more to do with:

Learning and preserving a cultural art form
Self-discipline
Self-confidence
Sports (artistic performance or competitive fighting/sparring)
Fitness
Ego/politics (“I and my way are better than you and your way”)
…etc.

This can apply to any and every system or “style,” whether so-called “traditional” or so-called “modern.”

I will point out that many of the more pragmatic “modern” combative systems are actually much closer to the real traditional martial arts of old than what is considered “traditional” today. Martial arts training methods of centuries past were (for the most part) centered on effectiveness in combat, and were much simpler and far less gentrified and flamboyant than much of what we see today. They were also more weapon-oriented. Most of today’s “traditional” martial arts were actually systematized into what they are now during the 20th century. What is practiced in the majority of “traditional” martial arts schools in America and around the world today bears little to no resemblance to the old martial arts that were practiced in centuries past, mainly intended to kill the enemy, for the military, or to help protect one’s village, for personal vendettas, etc., back in a time when policing was rare if existent at all, and where laws around violence were much harder to enforce. In general, “self-improvement” of a person had little to do with it, and letting people know and showing off that you had been trained could have gotten you killed.

Also, in centuries past, not just anyone could train in a martial art. It was customary to only accept certain types: military men, direct family or clan/community members, rebels/secret society members, etc.; and they generally already had the physical potential and the mentality for it. And there was a strong probability of them having to actually use what they trained in combat.

https://youtu.be/KwF30Szln-A

Jim

[James Y]

Geoff Thompson - “Violence: It’s All In You.”

https://youtu.be/aHEgMf0Wr-Q

Jim

[James Y]

Uechi-ryu Karate conditioning demonstration, by Kiyohide Shinjo and his student.

I’ve long been impressed with some of the traditional Okinawan Karate systems, like Uechi-ryu. Many years ago, I knew a Uechi-ryu sensei, and he and his people were solid. I never had any interest in studying it, but I could see that it is an impressive system, with absolutely none of the flash often associated with today’s publicly-demonstrated Karate systems.

This demonstration focuses on showing the system’s “Iron Body” training, clearly based on Fujian (also spelled Fukien)-based southern Kung Fu systems, which most Okinawan Karate systems were based on. Normally, I’m NOT a big fan of breaking demonstrations, but in this case, it looks legit to me. I find that, in general, traditional Okinawan masters are far less likely to fake stuff, and the way they break things, especially with their hands/fingers, would be extremely difficult and dangerous to replicate anyway without long and difficult training. From 2:15, he demonstrates breaking with a thumb knuckle strike, something I’ve only ever seen done by Uechi-ryu masters.

Going a bit OT…

Predictably, this video (like ALL videos dealing with martial arts) is not without its critics. One YouTube commenter to this video likened it to a circus. Another stated that he wished the master had broken the baseball bat on the thick part. I would like to see that commenter actually try doing it the way the master did it. The fact is, if that commenter were actually found, caught, brought out on camera, and told to break the bat even at the narrower end with his forearm, he would either sheepishly chicken out because he knows he can’t, or he would stupidly try it and only succeed in injuring or breaking his own forearm. The internet is chock full of keyboard warriors whose only experience is anonymously criticizing and trolling other people, especially martial artists, who have actually accomplished things in life. Unlike the trolls themselves, whose very comments show they are perpetual underachievers in life; thus the “need” to try to tear others down.

https://youtu.be/nsVa2bP_nf4

Jim

[James Y]

A brief discussion of walking sticks for self-defense.

I carry a walking stick on all my walks. I do NOT need it to assist me in walking. I own two different ones, and which one I carry depends on how I feel. They are both made by Brazos Walking Sticks, and both are hickory. One is a 51” rustic one, and the other is a 53” twisted hickory pattern. The lengths were specified for by me; originally, they were 55”.

I’ve watched some YouTube videos about walking stick self-defense. Most of the ones I’ve seen emphasize fairly complicated techniques, with circular blocks and strikes. Some even emphasize twirling the stick and/or the body.

My own emphasis is simple, and mostly relies on straight thrusts, usually with a slight twisting/corkscrewing action, striking with the hard, wider handle end into the torso area. The stick is always operated using both hands. Potential torso targets include anywhere from the upper sternum/throat, to the solar plexus/upper abdomen, down to the bladder/lower abdominal area. Even if someone swings his fist or thrusts at you with a short weapon, a straight thrust is quicker and has superior reach over a circular stick strike, is difficult to defend against, and can be devastating. There’s also not a lot to remember. In Choy Lee Fut, we used to emphasize lots of staff sparring (with padded staves that could still hurt), and I had to suppress simply thrusting straight into the torso, or attacking the opponent’s fingers holding their staff, because those tactics were so simple and effective, you weren’t learning other skills, and it was frustrating to the opponent, because they were difficult to defend against.

This type of striking is ‘single-ended’ staff fighting. Circular strikes and combinations that use both ends in combination is ‘double-ended’ staff fighting. There are certain situations where double-ended, if kept simple, can be effective, but my main thrust (no pun intended) is single-ended applications.

Most real-life examples of circular striking with a stick I’ve seen, especially with canes, result in the person who was struck remaining unhurt, and disarming the cane wielder. Usually the cane wielder bops the other person over the head, like an irate old church lady would, which isn’t too effective, and only pisses the other person off. Or the cane or stick is swung horizontally, which if not done with malice and proper timing/distancing/quickness/targeting, will either miss or result in the cane being blocked and grabbed. Because of the shorter reach of a cane, and the appearance of frailty that canes tend to give to the carrier, these are two of the reasons I prefer a walking stick and never carry a cane.

IMO, when it comes to self-defense, simple is better. Too many technical choices and too many complicated maneuvers can cause hesitation in a real situation. As I said, double-ended skills have their place, especially in close quarters, where even the center/body of the walking stick/ short staff can be thrusted crosswise into the enemy’s throat or face, for example.

Jim

[vivi]

one of my old MMA training partners is co-main on tomorrow nights UFC!

https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/ev ... ight-night#

[Naperville]

one of my old MMA training partners is co-main on tomorrow nights UFC!

https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/ev ... ight-night#

Who is it? I don't have PPV for tomorrows fights, but I get to see most of the action via Twitter and YouTube.

I'll root for them here!!!

[Naperville]

I had a slight setback 2 weeks ago while walking and received a diagnosis last week.

I thought that I was making progress, yet my back was killing me, so I would rest, stretch, and push on, of course right! I wanted to hit a 4 to 5 mile walk before the end of August. Heck 10 years ago I was walking 10 to 15 miles with no issues 2x a week.

I took a break in walking. I was still taking 1000mg of aspirin 2x a day for the pain so I made a DRs appt.

Diagnosis: Spinal stenosis with neurogenic claudication. In layman's terms its not good, I have so much calcification in my lumbar region that my spine is cutting off blood supply to my buttocks and legs.

Soooooooooo... I have to strengthen my core muscles, my thighs, and see if that makes it possible to walk. As it is I can only walk 200ft before the pain begins to set in. I cancelled the therapy sessions due to COVID Delta and I am going to start working out here at home.

It's always something isn't it?

[Naperville]

A brief discussion of walking sticks for self-defense.

I carry a walking stick on all my walks. I do NOT need it to assist me in walking. I own two different ones, and which one I carry depends on how I feel. They are both made by Brazos Walking Sticks, and both are hickory. One is a 51” rustic one, and the other is a 53” twisted hickory pattern. The lengths were specified for by me; originally, they were 55”.

I’ve watched some YouTube videos about walking stick self-defense. Most of the ones I’ve seen emphasize fairly complicated techniques, with circular blocks and strikes. Some even emphasize twirling the stick and/or the body.

My own emphasis is simple, and mostly relies on straight thrusts, usually with a slight twisting/corkscrewing action, striking with the hard, wider handle end into the torso area. The stick is always operated using both hands. Potential torso targets include anywhere from the upper sternum/throat, to the solar plexus/upper abdomen, down to the bladder/lower abdominal area. Even if someone swings his fist or thrusts at you with a short weapon, a straight thrust is quicker and has superior reach over a circular stick strike, is difficult to defend against, and can be devastating. There’s also not a lot to remember. In Choy Lee Fut, we used to emphasize lots of staff sparring (with padded staves that could still hurt), and I had to suppress simply thrusting straight into the torso, or attacking the opponent’s fingers holding their staff, because those tactics were so simple and effective, you weren’t learning other skills, and it was frustrating to the opponent, because they were difficult to defend against.

This type of striking is ‘single-ended’ staff fighting. Circular strikes and combinations that use both ends in combination is ‘double-ended’ staff fighting. There are certain situations where double-ended, if kept simple, can be effective, but my main thrust (no pun intended) is single-ended applications.

Most real-life examples of circular striking with a stick I’ve seen, especially with canes, result in the person who was struck remaining unhurt, and disarming the cane wielder. Usually the cane wielder bops the other person over the head, like an irate old church lady would, which isn’t too effective, and only pisses the other person off. Or the cane or stick is swung horizontally, which if not done with malice and proper timing/distancing/quickness/targeting, will either miss or result in the cane being blocked and grabbed. Because of the shorter reach of a cane, and the appearance of frailty that canes tend to give to the carrier, these are two of the reasons I prefer a walking stick and never carry a cane.

IMO, when it comes to self-defense, simple is better. Too many technical choices and too many complicated maneuvers can cause hesitation in a real situation. As I said, double-ended skills have their place, especially in close quarters, where even the center/body of the walking stick/ short staff can be thrusted crosswise into the enemy’s throat or face, for example.

Jim

I might take this up. Good subject matter, so I'll copy it in to my notes as a possibility based on my own issues. Try to kill 2 birds with one stone!

[vivi]

one of my old MMA training partners is co-main on tomorrow nights UFC!

https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/ev ... ight-night#

Who is it? I don't have PPV for tomorrows fights, but I get to see most of the action via Twitter and YouTube.

I'll root for them here!!!

Bryan Battle.

[Naperville]

one of my old MMA training partners is co-main on tomorrow nights UFC!

https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/ev ... ight-night#

Who is it? I don't have PPV for tomorrows fights, but I get to see most of the action via Twitter and YouTube.

I'll root for them here!!!

Bryan Battle.

Bryan Battle looks good in the stats.

Must have been interesting to work out with him.

[James Y]

I had a slight setback 2 weeks ago while walking and received a diagnosis last week.

I thought that I was making progress, yet my back was killing me, so I would rest, stretch, and push on, of course right! I wanted to hit a 4 to 5 mile walk before the end of August. Heck 10 years ago I was walking 10 to 15 miles with no issues 2x a week.

I took a break in walking. I was still taking 1000mg of aspirin 2x a day for the pain so I made a DRs appt.

Diagnosis: Spinal stenosis with neurogenic claudication. In layman's terms its not good, I have so much calcification in my lumbar region that my spine is cutting off blood supply to my buttocks and legs.

Soooooooooo... I have to strengthen my core muscles, my thighs, and see if that makes it possible to walk. As it is I can only walk 200ft before the pain begins to set in. I cancelled the therapy sessions due to COVID Delta and I am going to start working out here at home.

It's always something isn't it?

I’m sorry to hear this. I sincerely hope that things will start getting better for you soon. Easy does it; a little bit at a time on a regular basis, even if it feels too easy at first, is better than a lot done too soon.

As for the stick/staff fighting, I cut my sticks to suit my height and dimensions, 5’ 9”. The long ones regularly come at 55”, which may well suit a person taller than me. If ordering, I call Brazos by phone, and ask for as straight a stick as possible. I like hickory, because it’s the strongest, but I’ve heard that ironwood, which they also use, is also strong, but lighter than hickory. I really don’t find the hickory stick to be heavy, but some people prefer lighter. If my stick might be called upon to double as a SD tool, I want the toughest and hardest wood I can get.

Jim

[James Y]

vivi,

How did the fight go?

Jim

[Naperville]

I’m sorry to hear this. I sincerely hope that things will start getting better for you soon. Easy does it; a little bit at a time on a regular basis, even if it feels too easy at first, is better than a lot done too soon.

As for the stick/staff fighting, I cut my sticks to suit my height and dimensions, 5’ 9”. The long ones regularly come at 55”, which may well suit a person taller than me. If ordering, I call Brazos by phone, and ask for as straight a stick as possible. I like hickory, because it’s the strongest, but I’ve heard that ironwood, which they also use, is also strong, but lighter than hickory. I really don’t find the hickory stick to be heavy, but some people prefer lighter. If my stick might be called upon to double as a SD tool, I want the toughest and hardest wood I can get.

Jim

Life didn't kill me, yet. It just changed my focus! Now I need to build core.

I located the Brazos website. Beautiful staves. I'll definitely be buying a couple.

[Naperville]

vivi,

How did the fight go?

Jim

I have been poking around. I believe they start a bit later. Say around 7PM ET.

[Naperville]

https://twitter.com/search?q=UFC%20Vega ... yped_query

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... C+Vegas+35

[vivi]

vivi,

How did the fight go?

Jim

main card just started, so probably another 1-1.5 hours until he fights.

There was an awesome headkick KO last fight

https://streamable.com/2vlnmq

I called up our gym tonight and they're back open to the public. Plan to sign back up next week!

[Naperville]

Battle won with a rear naked choke!

Still waiting to see the video!!! And there it is.

https://twitter.com/ufc/status/1431838319466405889

[vivi]

Battle won with a rear naked choke!

Still waiting to see the video!!! And there it is.

https://twitter.com/ufc/status/1431838319466405889

He has great BJJ, glad he got to show some of it tonight. And what heart!

I wonder if the UFC will notice Roger Pratcher now. He's another Hayastan guy and IMO the best fighter that was at the gym when I trained there. He's a beast.

I contacted Hayastan tonight and they're back open to the public. I'm signing back up this week.

Maybe someday down the road I can post a sparring clip.

[Naperville]

Battle won with a rear naked choke!

Still waiting to see the video!!! And there it is.

https://twitter.com/ufc/status/1431838319466405889

He has great BJJ, glad he got to show some of it tonight. And what heart!

I wonder if the UFC will notice Roger Practher now. He's another Hayastan guy and IMO the best fighter that was at the gym when I trained there. He's a beast.

I contacted Hayastan tonight and they're back open to the public. I'm signing back up this week.

Maybe someday down the road I can post a sparring clip.

If you can train with the best you will have no regrets. Good luck to you. Have fun!

[vivi]

There's a few other UFC and Bellator guys in the area. Stephen Thompson, Chris Weidman, and Impa Kasanganay off the top of my head.

I'm excited to get back to sparring instead of just hitting the bags like I've been doing since 2020.