Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

Okinawan forearm conditioning, “Iron Arm”.

Very similar conditioning methods to southern-style Kung Fu. Which only makes sense, because Okinawan Karate systems descended from southern-style Kung Fu; in particular, ‘short-hand’ styles from China’s Fukien/Fujian Province. However, ‘long-arm’ southern styles, such as Choy Lee Fut (which originated in neighboring Guangdong Province), also place great emphasis on Iron Arm development. The purpose is the same; toughening, hardening, and creating greater density in the forearms for use as striking weapons. The result is the forearm equivalent of the conditioned shins of traditional Muay Thai fighters.

Chip Quimby (of the Uechi-ryu Karate style) demonstrates. I’m glad to see that he uses dit da jow (a Chinese herbal training liniment) before and after hardening exercises. Many martial artists do not use any liniment at all, and end up creating health problems down the line.

https://youtu.be/26jo_r1UQew

Jim

[James Y]

Lately, I’ve been rewatching one of my very few childhood idols, Benny Urquidez. Still my favorite professional fighter of all time, in any combat sport. A true beast in the ring, and also a true gentleman and a master martial artist.

https://youtu.be/ZgGTP5Cevrs

Jim

[Naperville]

Lately, I’ve been rewatching one of my very few childhood idols, Benny Urquidez. Still my favorite professional fighter of all time, in any combat sport. A true beast in the ring, and also a true gentleman and a master martial artist.

https://youtu.be/ZgGTP5Cevrs

Jim

I have known of The Jet for decades and I cannot believe that I do not have any training DVDs from him, so on the list he goes!!!

Thanks for the reminder!

[James Y]

I have known of The Jet for decades and I cannot believe that I do not have any training DVDs from him, so on the list he goes!!!

Thanks for the reminder!

My pleasure, Naperville!

I don’t have any training DVDs from him either, but I can’t think of a fighter I’d rather have learned training methods from than him. I did train at a week-long Bill “Superfoot” Wallace seminar back in 1982, but to me, Benny is the full package in terms of his skill set.

Jim

[James Y]

Hammer Fist.

The hammer fist is one of my favorite strikes. Especially when it comes to using a closed fist to the head. Forefist knuckle punches to the head can potentially result in a broken hand bone(s). I will admit that I’ve never actually hammer-fisted anyone in a real fight, but I began training the hammer fist extensively several years ago when I began to appreciate it more than I ever did in my youth. Especially since my career (or at least the career I had pre-Covid) relies upon the use of my hands.

There are several variations and angles of attack, and far less telegraphed methods of delivery for the hammer fist than is presented here. But this is a good indicator of how much raw power a hammer fist can pack.

Nigel Lee, the guy teaching, seems to take a perverse delight in inflicting pain on his students/demo volunteers. If the “hammer fist KO” was real and wasn’t staged, it’s not good (and is potentially harmful) for the student to be KO’d like that. And this isn’t the only video where he “knocks out” this same guy. Again, IF the knockouts weren’t staged. It IS a bit humorous to watch the tall guy repeatedly wincing in pain as Nigel goes on explaining the technique, seemingly oblivious to his pain.

https://youtu.be/NLhN05Y6Yr4

Jim

[Bloke]

a perverse delight

[James Y]

a perverse delight

Hahaha! Good one, Alex! :D

There is actually a lesson here. That guy is standing with his feet at least shoulder-width apart FACING HER. One thing I learned early on is to never stand with your groin area wide open like that when holding a kicking pad (or a board, like the guy is), or at all, for that matter. Because if someone makes a mistake and hits you down there, they’ll just laugh. I’ve seen it happen more than once.

Standing open like that to any training partner or opponent is a terrible habit, anyway. If you become habituated to it during practice, you’ll do it in real life.

Jim

[James Y]

Dealing with a pain-resistant adversary (by Lee Morrison).

Great stuff. One of the best SD instructors I’ve seen on YouTube. He also looks like someone who’s actually been there/done it more than a few times.

A personal comment on two of the strikes demonstrated: The forearm strike he shows is virtually identical in application to the Sau Choi (sweeping punch) of Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu, and the driving slap is the same as CLF’s Sau Jeung (sweeping palm). I’m not saying he trained CLF, only that those strikes and the intent are the same. The full Sau Choi in CLF strikes mainly with the radial bone of the thumb side of the forearm. Forearm bone hardening/toughening exercises, done over a long period of time, amplify the effects of the blow, and helps to reduce the chance of self-injury.

https://youtu.be/RVNknwBwh98

Jim

[James Y]

Striking with offensive forward pressure:

https://youtu.be/gtB9NR8QYOE

Jim

[Naperville]

Lee Morrison looks like he is providing some useful information. Other combatives instructors to look at are Kelly McCann, Kelly Worden, Marc MacYoung and Rory Miller.

Decent books are:
- "The Maul" by Holloway and Coleman
- "You Have The Right To Remain Innocent" by Duane
- "When Violence Is The Answer" by Larkin
- "Contemporary Knife Targeting" by Janich
- "Knife Fighting, A Practical Course" by Janich
- "Cold Steel" by Styers.

[James Y]

Lee Morrison looks like he is providing some useful information. Other combatives instructors to look at are Kelly McCann, Kelly Worden, Marc MacYoung and Rory Miller.

Decent books are:
- "The Maul" by Holloway and Coleman
- "You Have The Right To Remain Innocent" by Duane
- "When Violence Is The Answer" by Larkin
- "Contemporary Knife Targeting" by Janich
- "Knife Fighting, A Practical Course" by Janich
- "Cold Steel" by Styers.

Thanks for posting those, Naperville.

I have heard of Kelly McCann and Kelly Worden, but don’t own anything from them yet, and I have several books each from Marc MacYoung and Rory Miller. MacYoung was the first of the lot I started reading, back in the 1990s.

When Violence is the Answer is a good one, too. In fact, just today I related a story from that book on the Spyderco general discussion forum in the thread ‘SD with the Yojimbo and co.’, or whatever it was titled. Apparently, Larkin spent time in my neck of the woods (and may still).

I have most of those other books too, except for ‘Contemporary Knife Targeting’. I hadn’t heard of ‘The Maul’, I’ll have to look into that.

Jim

[Naperville]

There are dozens of titles on my Kindle. I bought Kindle copies because they were very cheap, but I have to buy texts so that I have backup copies to everything. Nothing stored on a computer will last 100 years unless it is on a CD/DVD.

Combatives and knife related skills texts and videos must be lucrative, but you need an angle. You cannot teach the same thing as 10 other guys/gals.

It's fun reading the books and watching the videos! Makes me wish that I was 20 again.

[James Y]

Bagua combat applications.

Bagua (or Baguazhang; literally, “Eight Trigrams Palm”) is a high-level martial art. Some people only consider it as a health-oriented practice, but if taught and trained in a combative manner, it’s very effective.

When I lived in Taiwan, I free-sparred a few times with an advanced practitioner of Bagua, who came from a school that emphasized its combative aspects. He was a VERY difficult opponent to deal with in-close, especially if I was the one doing the attacking. The few times I was able to (temporarily) turn the tables on him was when I could lure him into initiating an attack from a distance.

Baguazhang was one of the fighting methods that the legendary W.E. Fairbairn had trained in, and that influenced his combatives method, “Defendu”. Although his exposure to the art was almost certainly limited and fairly superficial, it was enough to impress him to incorporate some of it. Fairbairn was possibly the first Westerner ever to have received any type of training in a Chinese martial art.

The old master demonstrating is the late Liu Shi-Chang, who had also been a champion in Shuai Jiao (Chinese wrestling). This video is a fast-paced compilation of various applications. These are most likely being presented as examples of possibilities in use for demo and educational purposes, as opposed to being rigid “he does this so I must do this” types of techniques. The Bagua man I sparred with in Taiwan was very spontaneous and free-flowing with his applications, some of which were similar in many ways to some of these.

https://youtu.be/OQl9MrGVKwY

Jim

[James Y]

From unnatural to natural...

With martial arts, it is essential to train to the point of being ‘natural’ at it. That is, taking ways of moving and fighting that are unnatural, and developing them until they become natural actions and reactions. Some martial arts and combative sports (like boxing) are far more naturally adapted than, for example, Wing Chun. But even boxing can be hard for many individuals to actually apply under pressure without lots of proper training and experience. EVERY martial art and every combat sport has many practitioners who can use it and many who can’t. Some arts may have higher percentages of those who can, but that’s mostly down to training methods and popularity/availability/interest/quality instruction.

This is why people in general like saying X-martial art is superior to Y-martial art. Because in (mostly) sporting events, practitioners of X have shown to win more often over practitioners of Y. But that’s only from a limited perspective, in one type of setting, involving certain individuals. To then say that Y martial art is useless is narrow-minded. Useless for what? People train for different reasons. If Y martial art were so incredibly useless and had been totally discredited, it would have ceased being a thing a long time ago.

Some arts do take more time and work to become natural. If taught practically, the end result will still be the same; what was once ‘unnatural’ becomes ‘natural’. To a non-practitioner of that art merely observing a performance of it, that art as a whole may appear impractical, because it lies outside the scope of their experience. Just like a foreign language may sound incomprehensible, but not to those who can speak it. Just because we can’t understand something ourselves doesn’t make it inferior or useless.

What is most important is that you really LIKE and are COMPATIBLE WITH the art that you’re training in. If you don’t and if you aren’t, then no matter what reputation the art has, you probably won’t become good at it. What is best for someone else may not be what’s best for you, and vice versa.

Jim

[James Y]

Lee Morrison: ‘Dynamics of a Great Slap!’

https://youtu.be/LIxb0Flo_eU

Jim

[James Y]

Lee Morrison: ‘Dealing with threatening body language immediately.’

https://youtu.be/7GAdraFsKxM

Jim

[VashHash]

I like the Lee Morrison videos but I've never seen anyone in the US "stag" someone. Maybe it's more common in his area or places I haven't been to. Still something to know about.

[James Y]

A 26-year old MMA fighter underestimates an 86-year old boxer and learns a lesson.

This goes back to Never Underestimate Anybody.

https://youtu.be/_HJiOc-qNik

Jim

[Naperville]

A 26-year old MMA fighter underestimates an 86-year old boxer and learns a lesson.

This goes back to Never Underestimate Anybody.

Jim

So, what you're saying is, never give up!

[James Y]

A 26-year old MMA fighter underestimates an 86-year old boxer and learns a lesson.

This goes back to Never Underestimate Anybody.

Jim

So, what you're saying is, never give up!

Yes, that too!

Many people think that once a person is over 40 (some people put it at 30), they’re OLD. Meaning you can’t do anything as good anymore. Which is NONSENSE.

For example, I’m 57 (which I still consider somewhat young), and I am FAR from useless. I may not be able (nor want) to keep up certain aspects of my martial arts training that I used to do, but my progress in other aspects have shot up in the past few years. Aspects that are highly effective, which I often took for granted when I was younger. Seeing my training with ‘fresh eyes’. Certain things I’ve had to adapt to changing circumstances as I get older. While I may no longer get into ‘competition shape’, my goal is to remain physically/mentally healthy, in ‘good’ shape, and formidable for life.

Note: Being in “ripped” shape does not always equal being in good health.

It’s not about being egotistical or self-deluded. It’s all in your mind/attitude/sense of self-worth. And training and self-reflection. There is a saying: “If you think you can, you’re right. If you think you can’t, you’re also right.”

Jim