Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:29 am

Hands of Lightning Speed - Master Vesse - World's Fastest?

Demonstration by Marko Vesse of Wu Xing Dao Kung Fu. I've never heard of Wu Xing Dao (which I believe translates as "The Way of Formlessness"). I can only assume that it's some type of recently created hybrid style.

In terms of raw speed, this is very impressive. And if you look very closely, he is using his core to generate whip-like force. It's very subtle, especially when he's showing the hammer fist uppercut underneath the chin. But if you observe closely, he is generating from his core. The arm trap is pretty cool. He is definitely moving at Bruce Lee-like speed.

As with my comments on Kenpo in my last post, I still say that if he were actually striking to make full contact, while he would still be very fast, his hands would not be AS fast as he is demonstrating. Heavy contact, and the intent to make it, adds a whole different dimension, and is very different from snapping and whipping strikes into empty air and pulling short of contact. That's why, when you see old home training videos of Bruce Lee, when he's punching and kicking the heavy bag with power, his speed appeared very ordinary, compared to when he was snapping strikes and kicks at the air.

Also, I don't know of any real fights that begin with the opponents touching hands. I realize he's showing it that way for the purpose of demonstration.

Marko Vesse's style of movement appears to be based on, or influenced by, some type of Northern Chinese system, possibly Tongbei, Chen Taiji, etc.

https://youtu.be/xx7XIGvGFpE

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:29 pm

The Wrestling Takedowns of Ancient Samurai (Hoki ryu)

https://youtu.be/ruBMkZbp0QQ

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:13 pm

Mike Stone

(2 videos below)

Mike Stone was considered one of the "Top 3" legendary American Karate fighters of the 1960s, along with Joe Lewis and Chuck Norris. IIRC, at one point, Mike Stone had won something like 90+ Karate matches without a loss.

Bruce Lee had stated that Mike Stone and Jim Harrison were the two men he would least have wanted to face in a street fight.

Mike Stone, originally from Hawaii, only had a few years of Karate training when he won a national championship. His style wasn't pretty (to say the least); he was aggressive and very wild. But he was very, very effective.

Something that few martial arts people (or wannabe martial artist keyboard warriors) realize or believe, until it happens to them, is that wild, awkward opponents who know how to fight can often mess up fighters who are more technically sound/orthodox, because of their unpredictability and 'broken rhythm.' I've seen it happen many times, and it's even happened to me a couple of times in training. So anyone seeing the footage of Mike Stone in the first video who thinks they could've easily handled him in a real fight ... well, most likely NOT.

I heard that sometime after Mike Stone retired from Karate competition (1969?), he started improving the form of his technique.

IIRC, the national championship footage was from 1964 or 1965, and was infamous as being the first Karate championship match featured on national TV, and was the last time for years after, because it was considered too bloody. Mike Stone used a left ridgehand to the face that KO'd his opponent (possibly Pat Burleson). Mike Stone really seemed to like the ridgehand strike.

In the mid-1980s, Mike Stone sold all of his possessions and moved to a remote island in the Philippines, where he still lives today.

Mike Stone National Championship

https://youtu.be/2KQDvTwYeyo

Mike Stone, Ridgehand

https://youtube.com/shorts/EjRSqwpUeMo?feature=share

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:59 am

Old Striking Techniques of Jujutsu Were Elite; Here's Why

Excellent video below.

My personal favorite strikes for actual self-defense are palm heel strikes (various kinds) to the chin, jaw, nose, ear, etc.; edge of hand chops to the neck/throat, groin; and hammer fists to the nose, temple, jaw, or groin. Also, power slaps using the whole, slightly-cupped flat of the palm to the jawline, ear, or groin. As well as elbow strikes, especially the piercing, or spearing elbow.

Note: Technically, hammer fists are strikes and are not punches; the latter utilize the forefist (front surfaces of the knuckles) as the striking surface.

My only use for a fist punch is to the body (solar plexus, liver, lower abdomen, and maybe the kidney from behind.

All of these strikes are highly underrated, because most are not seen in sport fighting. I have used palm strikes effectively, so I know they work, even though I never actually sparred with them. Sparring is extremely important to develop physical and mental attributes that are vital in self-defense, but sparring in itself is not self-defense training. There are huge differences between sport or recreational free-sparring and what happens in real-life attacks; and I'm not counting avoidable, ego-based mutual combat fights as self-defense. The latter, and last-ditch SD against a predatory attacker or attackers, are miles apart.

The last thing you want is to break your hand using the standard fist punch to the head, the most common strike. Even Mike Tyson broke his hand in a street fight.

Some claim they broke their pinky finger and/or knuckle using hammer fist. Only if you strike wrong. The hammer fist strikes with the edge of the palm, the exact same striking surface as the open-handed chop. The difference between the chop and the hammer fist is the chop is used to penetrate into soft targets in narrow spaces that the hammer fist may not be able to access, like the neck and throat.

Few people seriously train palm strikes, chops, and hammer fists. That is why so many claim that they don't work, or aren't as effective as standard knuckle punches. Simply put, if you don't train something extensively and properly until it's second nature, you won't be able to use it.

https://youtu.be/Asi1yQ6_HqU

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:19 pm

Sick Ridgehand Knockout

(Video below)

This was definitely a Karate ridgehand, not a boxer's hook punch. Executed and landed perfectly. The ridgehand was the only open-handed strike seen (or allowed) in Karate tournament competition after the 1960s. IMO, it's excellent and very deceptive, if properly developed. Admittedly, in my Karate days, I never thought much of the ridgehand and its practicality until much later.

Very similar to the Sau Choi of Choy Lee Fut, except in the Sau Choi, the striking surface would more likely be the radial side of the forearm. In forms and in 'air practice,' the Sau Choi looks like too wide of a swing to be effective; but in actual application, its arc is adjusted (shortened) to the situation, and comes from the opponent's blind spot, just like the ridgehand in this video.

Tanglang Quan (Northern Mantis Fist) also contains a snappy top wrist strike with a short, deceptive arc that is applied very similarly to the ridgehand.

https://youtube.com/shorts/MCqShUHvOZk?feature=share

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:10 pm

The Karate Technique Too Dangerous For MMA ... Kind Of

Ridgehand again.

https://youtu.be/K1PePawcqvA

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:59 am


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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby Naperville » Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:30 am

Doh!
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:52 pm

Conversations With Papa Ridgehand (AKA, Ray Thompson); How He Got Into the Martial Arts / Story Time

MMA fighter and former kickboxer, Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson, with his father and head coach, Ray Thompson.

https://youtu.be/NcMRSCVmFis

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby Naperville » Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:55 am

I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:44 pm

Naperville wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:55 am
Aggression and Awareness

https://survivalblog.com/2022/12/30/agg ... -swampfox/

Thanks for linking that article, Naperville.

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:34 pm

Iron Palm Demonstration

This guy seems a little nutty, but he is definitely legit. The materials he hits were not pre-baked, or weakened in any way, to make them easier to break, like they are in most breaking demonstrations. You can see his right hand is deformed from years of extreme Iron Palm training. Many hard-core traditional Iron Palm practitioners only train it with one hand. This guy's left hand appears normal, and is definitely smaller than his right.

He speaks Mandarin with a heavy Shandong accent, like the first Kung Fu sifu I trained under in Taiwan, who originally came from Shandong (a province in northeastern China).

https://youtu.be/qQzAYTOPeQM

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby Naperville » Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:14 pm

There are some martial arts that I've always luved and Muay Thai is one of them. I like seeing the training and the fights. The training in Thailand, which almost anyone can sign up for with some cash, is absolutely grueling.

It is an all day affair of conditioning with long runs mixed in 6 days a week with temperatures at 90F to 110F. The results are astounding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_YYK6iQewI
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:54 pm

Naperville wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:14 pm
There are some martial arts that I've always luved and Muay Thai is one of them. I like seeing the training and the fights. The training in Thailand, which almost anyone can sign up for with some cash, is absolutely grueling.

It is an all day affair of conditioning with long runs mixed in 6 days a week with temperatures at 90F to 110F. The results are astounding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_YYK6iQewI

Thanks for sharing and posting the vid.

I've always respected Muay Thai. However, it wasn't available when I was growing up. Nowadays it's everywhere, or ar least it's taught in MMA gyms, which are everywhere.

If I were to study it, I'd have to have started young. Like single-digit young. The Thais start VERY young. Their bones and muscles grow into it. That's why their skills and their conditioning are so good, and their mindsets are so calm. IMO, even 20-something is way too old to begin pure Muay Thai training. I've seen several MMA fighters shatter their shinbones in matches when their low round kick is leg checked, or when they blocked a leg kick with their shin. I've never heard of that happening in Muay Thai fights in Thailand. I wouldn't want to learn Muay Thai from an MMA gym, where it's not the sole focus and people start much older, because the Muay Thai conditioning won't be at the same level as a pure Muay Thai gym.

I never studied Muay Thai, but I have sparred a few times with a Muay Thai fighter from Thailand (although he was ethnically Burmese).
This was many years ago. As you can guess, he got the better of me. But it was a great experience, and back then I was willing to spar with anybody.

I'm 59, so no way would I even consider taking up another martial art, especially one that requires youth, like Muay Thai.

Nowadays, I'm working on simplifying and refining select skills that I've trained over the decades that are, or have proven to be, the most practical for me. I already have plenty to work with. Lately, I don't even consider what I do as a specific "style" anymore, other than my own. However, unlike many who do that, I'm NOT going to rename my personal method with some contrived chop suey name. There's already more than enough names of martial arts. I'll just say it's my own variation of the best of what's worked for me from Choy Lee Fut, Tanglangquan, and even a tiny bit of Kenpo Karate. I won't be teaching anybody, so I feel no need to name it something stupid, like " Choy Tang Ken," "Kungarate," "Jim Fist Do," or whatever.

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby Naperville » Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:53 am

I'm not even walking long distances "yet." I'm certainly in no position to do anything right now. No pain in my back though, not for weeks!!! All that I can do at the moment is to continue to eat less, and then do some light calisthenics. Hoping that by the time Spring/Summer 2023 comes around I can walk a bit.

I agree with you about the conditioning. I never struck anything with my shin and I know it would be painful. Just a little bump on the shin and I'm completely taken by the pain. I'd need a soft bag to do any shin training.

Somebody starting young who studies boxing, Muay Thai, and BJJ/Judo would be a force to recon with.

I'd never start a martial art. I do not have the depth or background for that. But I do continue to buy escrima/arnis DVDs, and may train in the basement. Yes, I need to get moving and walking and if I can accomplish that I'll buy some gear and go back to training escrima/arnis solo. I love it too much to give up on the idea.

Just ordered from "EM3 Video - Masters Magazine"
- Giron Escrima - BAHALA NA - Vol-1-2-3 SET - By Master Kirk McCune
- Kali ILUSTRISIMO 7 DVD Set

I think I may have to buy another Jason Inay DVD or 2 to complete my set too.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby Naperville » Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:11 pm

Japanese Sumo Wrestling Is Plagued by Violence

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzwkp/ ... buse-japan
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:58 pm

Naperville:

Hoping you can recover enough to live reasonably comfortably and get back to doing what you love to do.

I used to train my shins, and although not Muay Thai level, I was able to give and withstand impacts in sparring without pain or injury. Not only useful for impacts, but in some Kung Fu systems, you can hook their ankle with your foot and press your shin into or down onto the opponent's lower leg. With a conditioned shin, the effect is like a heavy blade cutting into the muscle. But I stopped the shin hardening practice about 20 years ago.

As for boxing, in sport fighting, boxing is the best by far in terms of punching, etc. One issue with boxing is that it's a big risk to punch the same way bare-fisted as you would with hand wraps and gloves on. It's very easy to break your hand punching, especially to the head, when bare-knuckling it. Geoff Thompson did some boxing for about a year for the experience, but IIRC, said that although he enjoyed it, he quit when he realized he was beginning to slur his speech. Boxers incur more head trauma during training and competing.

I'm not surprised about the violence in Sumo. Martial arts and martial sport training in Japan is often brutal and/or abusive. Probably especially in Sumo, which I remember seeing something about the abuse that Sumo trainees endure many years ago. Japan has always had a big bullying problem.

Jim

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Mon Jan 02, 2023 4:05 pm

Does Chiburi Actually Work?

Interesting. I didn't know that Katanas were held together with only a single pin.

https://youtube.com/shorts/dxlc6I9ONEo?feature=share

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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby Naperville » Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:44 am

James Y wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:58 pm
Naperville:

Hoping you can recover enough to live reasonably comfortably and get back to doing what you love to do.
...

Jim
Working on it. I'm feeling great except for my right arm acting up now and again. I seriously thought that maybe I had a tumor in my arm or something. It had hurt for months and at times I did not know if I could fall asleep with it. I do not know what happened, maybe injured some tendons? I don't know.


This is the intro to the Bahala Na videos that I just bought. There will probably be more videos in the series and I collect anything that is of high quality escrima/arnis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a42bUcvW2IE
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

Postby James Y » Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:23 am

Naperville wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:44 am
James Y wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:58 pm
Naperville:

Hoping you can recover enough to live reasonably comfortably and get back to doing what you love to do.
...

Jim
Working on it. I'm feeling great except for my right arm acting up now and again. I seriously thought that maybe I had a tumor in my arm or something. It had hurt for months and at times I did not know if I could fall asleep with it. I do not know what happened, maybe injured some tendons? I don't know.


This is the intro to the Bahala Na videos that I just bought. There will probably be more videos in the series and I collect anything that is of high quality escrima/arnis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a42bUcvW2IE

Could the pain in your arm possibly have been a pinched, or otherwise inflamed nerve? I don't know, just throwing that out there.

Thanks for posting the video.

Jim


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