Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

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VooDooChild
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby VooDooChild » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:18 am

James Y wrote:
MacLaren wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:00 am
Man, I just hope they are never able to weaponize Ebola.
Like, say in aerosol form. I got the idea-fear from reading a Tom Clancy novel, Executive Orders.
In that book, the bad guys were actually able to weaponize the Ebola Zaire virus. That would be a nightmare...
If it can be conceived of, it’s already been done.

Jim
While I dont doubt that they could probably weaponize anything.
Im also not riding an antigravity hoverboard while swinging around a light saber. :D

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby James Y » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:51 am

VooDooChild wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:18 am
James Y wrote:
MacLaren wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:00 am
Man, I just hope they are never able to weaponize Ebola.
Like, say in aerosol form. I got the idea-fear from reading a Tom Clancy novel, Executive Orders.
In that book, the bad guys were actually able to weaponize the Ebola Zaire virus. That would be a nightmare...
If it can be conceived of, it’s already been done.

Jim
While I dont doubt that they could probably weaponize anything.
Im also not riding an antigravity hoverboard while swinging around a light saber. :D
True...but who knows what they do for recreation at Area 51? :D

Jim

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Naperville » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:42 pm

TOP PORTALS FOR INFO

CDC, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
https://www.cdc.gov/

CIDRAP - Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/

Timeline of the 2019–20 Wuhan coronavirus outbreak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... Chronology

Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/
https://www.reddit.com/live/14clcjkp2r0pb/
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby The Deacon » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:09 pm

Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:29 am
Naperville wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:22 am
I need to be as informed as I possibly can. I decided to watch the movie "CONTAGION" on YouTube tonight.

Tomorrow, I'm going to watch "HOT ZONE" on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=E ... G9yQLRCjPw

Contagion is actually a good movie.

Pretty accurate as far as how people would react and response time frames etc.

OUTBREAK is another one that's isn't all that bad.

Maybe Netflix is behind this new Corona virus, to boost interest in Pandemic. ;) Hey, it's not the craziest conspiracy theory I've seen on this forum. :p
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:42 pm

The Deacon wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:09 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:29 am
Naperville wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:22 am
I need to be as informed as I possibly can. I decided to watch the movie "CONTAGION" on YouTube tonight.

Tomorrow, I'm going to watch "HOT ZONE" on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=E ... G9yQLRCjPw

Contagion is actually a good movie.

Pretty accurate as far as how people would react and response time frames etc.

OUTBREAK is another one that's isn't all that bad.

Maybe Netflix is behind this new Corona virus, to boost interest in Pandemic. ;) Hey, it's not the craziest conspiracy theory I've seen on this forum. :p

Pandemic came out in 2016, never saw it, not on Netflix either.

Looks like one of those straight to video movies.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby The Mastiff » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:51 pm

Between the new virus and what happened to the PRC's swine herds they have had a bad year with virus outbreaks and that must be hugely expensive. On top of the troubles in Hong Kong the leaders have to be getting nervous. They didn't make the mistakes they made with the SARs outbreak a few years back trying to cover things up. I'll give them credit for not repeating the same mistakes.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:44 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:51 pm
Between the new virus and what happened to the PRC's swine herds they have had a bad year with virus outbreaks and that must be hugely expensive. On top of the troubles in Hong Kong the leaders have to be getting nervous. They didn't make the mistakes they made with the SARs outbreak a few years back trying to cover things up. I'll give them credit for not repeating the same mistakes.

Will have to wait and see how it goes over the next few months.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:02 pm

MacLaren wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:00 am
Man, I just hope they are never able to weaponize Ebola.
Like, say in aerosol form. I got the idea-fear from reading a Tom Clancy novel, Executive Orders.
In that book, the bad guys were actually able to weaponize the Ebola Zaire virus. That would be a nightmare...
I’m just happy that Ebola did not originate in China. It would be everywhere by now.
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:05 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:02 pm
MacLaren wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:00 am
Man, I just hope they are never able to weaponize Ebola.
Like, say in aerosol form. I got the idea-fear from reading a Tom Clancy novel, Executive Orders.
In that book, the bad guys were actually able to weaponize the Ebola Zaire virus. That would be a nightmare...
I’m just happy that Ebola did not originate in China. It would be everywhere by now.

You got that right...

The World population would be a lot lower than it is now too, a lot lower.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Naperville » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:30 am

2019-nCoV is a coronavirus. SARS is a coronavirus.

2019-nCoV is not done mutating in any way, it mutates every host or so. Scientists have sequenced the genome of 2019-nCoV several times and they think that it STARTED infecting humans as late as November 2019, with the first major outbreak around a month later in Wuhan.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... oronavirus

Sustained transmission fueling outbreak
The new analysis on 2019-nCoV transmissibility was released today by a group based at Imperial College London that made two earlier projections on the number of symptomatic illnesses in Wuhan.

The report focuses on transmissibility, and the scientists say sustained human-to-human transmission is the only explanation for the large-scale outbreak in Wuhan. They add that today's report is an extended version of what they shared with the World Health Organization, governments, and academic networks earlier this week.

They estimate that the reproduction number (R0), the average number of illnesses spread by one infected person, is 2.6 (range, 1.5 to 3.5). Also, the experts said transmission patterns are probably variable, with some people infecting several others, while some don't, a pattern seen with SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS-CoV (Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus).

Control steps in China would need to block 60% of transmission to control the outbreak, the researchers projected. Without drugs or vaccine, shutting down the outbreak depends on quickly finding and isolating sick people.

"It is unclear at the current time whether this outbreak can be contained within China," they wrote, emphasizing that key questions remain, such as how well residents adopt recommended risk-reduction steps, how severe the disease is, and how readily people with mild disease can pass the virus to others.

They urged health officials, if possible, to cast a wide net for isolating and testing suspected cases that involve only mild to moderate disease.

Gene analysis hints at recent spillover
A new analysis from researchers at the open-source pathogen genome analysis project Nextstrain, based on 24 genomes of 2019-nCoV that have been shared, found a lack of diversity that points to a single spillover from animals to humans or a small number of spillovers involving very similar viruses. The researchers are from the infectious diseases division at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle and Biozentrum at the University of Basel in Switzerland.

The animal source of the outbreak hasn't yet been confirmed, though separate recent genetic analyses found that 2019-nCoV is most closely related to earlier viruses found in bats.

In the new findings, researchers suspect that the jump from animals to humans probably occurred recently, in November 2019 or in early December. Chinese health officials detected the outbreak in the middle of December, following a cluster of suspicious pneumonia cases in patients connected to a Wuhan seafood market, which also sold various live animals.

Some of the sequences confirm human-to-human transmission, including three sequences from Shenzhen that came from a single family, plus two nearly identical sequences from Zhuhai in Guangdong province, also from a single family.

The group praised teams that have shared the genomes, which were all submitted to GISAID (the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data). "We would like to acknowledge the amazing and timely work done by all scientists involved in this outbreak, but particularly those working in China," they wrote.


SARS was deadly to anyone 65 or older.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... sed-upward

The fatality ratio (FOR SARS) is less than 1% for people younger than 25, 6% for those aged 25 to 44, 15% for those aged 45 to 64, and more than 50% for people 65 or older, officials said.



Scientists do not know if 2019-nCoV can be stopped, and it may be a new virus that we have to learn to live with!

Because it has not stopped mutating, and it is deadly, that would mean that the number of people that are infected or die due to the virus would change from year to year, like a ticking time-bomb.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/26/con ... perts-say/

Containing new coronavirus may not be feasible, experts say, as they warn of possible sustained global spread

Some infectious disease experts are warning that it may no longer be feasible to contain the new coronavirus circulating in China. Failure to stop it there could see the virus spread in a sustained way around the world and even perhaps join the ranks of respiratory viruses that regularly infect people.

“The more we learn about it, the greater the possibility is that transmission will not be able to be controlled with public health measures,” said Dr. Allison McGeer, a Toronto-based infectious disease specialist who contracted SARS in 2003 and who helped Saudi Arabia control several hospital-based outbreaks of MERS.

If that’s the case, she said, “we’re living with a new human virus, and we’re going to find out if it will spread around the globe.” McGeer cautioned that because the true severity of the outbreak isn’t yet known, it’s impossible to predict what the impact of that spread would be, though she noted it would likely pose significant challenges to health care facilities.

The pessimistic assessment comes from both researchers studying the dynamics of the outbreak — the rate at which cases are rising in and emerging from China — and infectious diseases experts who are parsing the first published studies describing cases to see if public health tools such as isolation and quarantine could as effective in this outbreak as they were in the 2003 SARS epidemic.
...
“Despite the enormous and admirable efforts in China and around the world, we need to plan for the possibility containment of this epidemic isn’t possible,” said Neil Ferguson, an infectious diseases epidemiology at Imperial College London who has issued a series of modeling studies on the outbreak.

There may be as many as 100,000 cases already in China, Ferguson told The Guardian newspaper on Sunday, adding the model suggests the number could be between 30,000 and 200,000 cases. “Almost certainly many tens of thousands of people are infected,” he told the British newspaper.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation announced Sunday it is donating $10 million to the response to the virus. Half the money will be given to Chinese groups to help them in containment efforts. The other half will be given to the African Center for Disease Control to fund its efforts to help African countries prepare to have to cope with the new infection.
...
Tools like quarantine and isolation — which were key to controlling SARS — are unlikely stop spread of a virus that can transmit during the period from infection to symptoms, experts say.

Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the agency knows transmission of the virus within the United States may be on the horizon.

“We’re leaning far forward. And we have been every step of the way with an aggressive stance to everything we can do in the U.S.,” she told STAT. “And yet those of us who have been around long enough know that everything we do might not be enough to stop this from spreading in the U.S.”
...
Trevor Bedford, a computational biologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, suggested the estimates are sobering and point to continued spread.

“If it’s not contained shortly, I think we are looking at a pandemic,” Bedford said, though he cautioned that it’s impossible to know at this point how severe that type of event would be.
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Naperville » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:36 am

We will have to watch the data as it comes in to see how virulent it is over the next two months.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1ZP02B

(As of 01/26/2020) no fatalities have been recorded outside China.



R0's are all over the place, some as high as almost 6

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 3.916395v1

Preliminary estimation of the basic reproduction number of novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in China, from 2019 to 2020: A data-driven analysis in the early phase of the outbreak

Backgrounds: There has been a novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) pneumonia outbreak in China since December 2019, and which spreads internationally. This is the first study to quantify the basic reproduction number, R0, of 2019-nCoV in the early phase of the outbreak. Methods: Accounting for the impact of the variations in disease reporting rate, we modelled the epidemic curve of 2019-nCoV cases time series, in mainland China from January 10 to January 21, 2020, through the exponential growth. With the estimated intrinsic growth rate (γ), we estimated R0 by using the serial intervals (SI) of two other well-known coronavirus diseases, MERS and SARS, as approximations for the true unknown SI. Findings: The early outbreak data largely follows the exponential growth. We estimated that the mean R0 ranges from 3.30 (95%CI: 2.73-3.96) to 5.47 (95%CI: 4.16-7.10) associated with 0-fold to 2-fold increase in the reporting rate. With rising report rate, the mean R0 is likely to be below 5 but above 3. Conclusion: The mean estimate of R0 for the 2019-nCoV ranges from 3.30 (95%CI: 2.73-3.96) to 5.47 (95%CI: 4.16-7.10), and significantly larger than 1. Our findings indicate the potential of 2019-nCoV to cause outbreaks.
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby The Deacon » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:22 am

Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:42 pm
The Deacon wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:09 pm
Maybe Netflix is behind this new Corona virus, to boost interest in Pandemic. ;) Hey, it's not the craziest conspiracy theory I've seen on this forum. :p

Pandemic came out in 2016, never saw it, not on Netflix either.

Looks like one of those straight to video movies.

You might try Googling "Netflix Pandemic Documentary", Jim.
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Bloke » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:52 am

Who knows how this’ll all pan out?

I’m tipping it will run it’s course and fizzle like everything else and I doubt it’ll be anything like the movies. Unless of coarse Dustin Hoffman comes to the party.

Anyhow, we’ll just give any Chinaman we see that looks crook a wide berth, hope for the best and see how that goes. ;)
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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:40 am

Ankerson wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:24 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:01 pm
After reading several of these most interesting comments I've kind of taken an alternate viewpoint on this current virus scare. I do think that this current virus ( Man made or Nature Made) is going to somehow be contained. They do seem to kind of have a head start on containing it for the foreseeable future. I'm still wondering if this current virus is actually weaponized or just a freak occurrence of nature. I do personally tend to think that it was from some sinister biotech lab even though I have no real valid way of proving it. Just a hunch based on a few circumstances nothing more.

But with most of the victims being aged or already in weakened conditions maybe it isn't worthy of the fear that it has generated. But I still don't think that it hurts to be cautious. And being aware of a problem almost always gives you the upper hand on it. I am currently in a very fortunate situation. I have food stockpiles that I have garnered by bartering and doing favors for some good people. I could hunker down for probably 90 to 110 days if I need to with plenty of food and potable water with no need of even leaving the house at all.

The blessing of the internet is that information really spreads fast by comparison. Had there been a similar information source during the dark ages I doubt if the Black Plague would have been nearly as horrible as it was. But on the other hand awareness and prevention are both worth their weight in gold. But I do plan on taking provisions and serious caution irrespective what ultimately happens.

I doubt that it was a weaponized virus, if it was it would be both VERY deadly, like a 99% mortality rate and it would spread MUCH faster than even this one has. Would be like an R-O 6-8 or higher.

They are having problems in China containing it because it does spread fast.

And the incubation period is like 4 days and with an R-O of 2-3 it's not all that surprising really.
Very good points Ankerson and for someone like myself who has not been in the military as you have I take your comments very seriously. However the timing of this virus is rather strange in some ways. The mainstream media is truly having a field day for a brief period of time very similar to when the SARS virus was causing panic. Also if it were weaponized I bet the mainstream media wouldn't have found out as fast as they did with this one.

This current scare reminds me of two 1970s movies. One being the Andromeda Strain and the other being the Satan Bug. If any of you have access to those movies I encourage you all to check them out. Oh and don't forget Dustin Hoffman's classic movie "Outbreak" as well,

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby The Mastiff » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 am

Also if it were weaponized I bet the mainstream media wouldn't have found out as fast as they did with this one.
If this was a bio attack it would go something like this.

Day 1: 50 people walk into the hospital by 1100hrs. By 1600hrs there are 200-250
Day 2: 400+ reported people with some already dead and dying
Day 3: 1200+ people or more depending on the mode of attack and how the bug works.

If this was a bio attack the thing was done either deliberately by the one guy here and one there to confuse the authorities into thinking it's not an attack or it was essentially a failed attack. It does not have the impact one would expect to see with bio attacks.

Bio attacks on nuclear powers are generally going to be responded to by nuclear attacks on the nation state that did the attack. That illustrates how severe real bio attacks are expected to be.

It's possible for a terrorist organization or even an individual to conduct such an attack ( recall the powder anthrax after 9/11) but these are rare and would not have a similar impact to one from a nation state.

Now, an "accidental" contamination of another nations crops or herds for the purpose of destabilization of that nation is possible but not real practical or likely because of the consequences . Those consequences would include things like the likelihood that contamination will come back to the nation or region that began it and do the same thing it did to the targets as well as the fact that if word ever got out there would never again be any support or places to hide for the persons or groups involved. No country would knowingly shelter people or groups involved in that stuff and for a terror group that spells the end.

To me it seems pretty obvious this is a regular infection like so many before and is being handled pretty openly and competently. THe PRC government even released genetic information for the worlds infectious disease labs as soon as they had it. That is about as good as it gets. Any mis steps so far seem small and accidental. That is another indicator of what is going on.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Ankerson » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:39 am

The Mastiff wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:25 am
Also if it were weaponized I bet the mainstream media wouldn't have found out as fast as they did with this one.
If this was a bio attack it would go something like this.

Day 1: 50 people walk into the hospital by 1100hrs. By 1600hrs there are 200-250
Day 2: 400+ reported people with some already dead and dying
Day 3: 1200+ people or more depending on the mode of attack and how the bug works.

If this was a bio attack the thing was done either deliberately by the one guy here and one there to confuse the authorities into thinking it's not an attack or it was essentially a failed attack. It does not have the impact one would expect to see with bio attacks.

Bio attacks on nuclear powers are generally going to be responded to by nuclear attacks on the nation state that did the attack. That illustrates how severe real bio attacks are expected to be.

It's possible for a terrorist organization or even an individual to conduct such an attack ( recall the powder anthrax after 9/11) but these are rare and would not have a similar impact to one from a nation state.

Now, an "accidental" contamination of another nations crops or herds for the purpose of destabilization of that nation is possible but not real practical or likely because of the consequences . Those consequences would include things like the likelihood that contamination will come back to the nation or region that began it and do the same thing it did to the targets as well as the fact that if word ever got out there would never again be any support or places to hide for the persons or groups involved. No country would knowingly shelter people or groups involved in that stuff and for a terror group that spells the end.

To me it seems pretty obvious this is a regular infection like so many before and is being handled pretty openly and competently. THe PRC government even released genetic information for the worlds infectious disease labs as soon as they had it. That is about as good as it gets. Any mis steps so far seem small and accidental. That is another indicator of what is going on.

Well it's pretty obvious to me also that it wasn't a BIO attack for the simple reason that there are still so many Chinese people still breathing.

If it was a BIO attack over half of China's population would be dead already with more getting ready to die and for the most part completely wiped out a short time after that.

They wouldn't have had time to react before the spread either. With China's population density it would have spread so fast there would be nothing they could do to stop it.

High destiny populated areas are prime targets for BIO weapons. That includes major cities like NYC etc. They don't work as fast in the more urban areas with less population. They could be used to wipe out the population while leaving the buildings and infrastructure intact so after 6 months they could move in and clean it up. Much cleaner than the Nuclear option and less destructive. The Nuclear option would be used in the more urban areas. So it's really more of a combined Nuclear-BIO attack.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby DSH007 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:29 am

Ankerson wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
DSH007 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:56 am
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 562257002/

US population ~ 327 million. Two confirmed coronavirus cases in the US.
Chinese population ~ 1.3 billion. 830 sickened, 26 dead due to coronavirus in China.

Out of all the things that I have to be worried about today, Kung Flu is not one of them. Don't think it'll bother me tomorrow either..

For now.... ;)

So far they have kept it somewhat contained.

Something to keep an eye on.
It seems the confirmed cases have more than doubled in the US.. You may all be right to be so worried.. hell, I'm not quite sure how I lasted out the weekend wandering so far from my bunker and rations.. ;)
Rick H.

..well, that escalated quickly..

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Ankerson » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:31 am

DSH007 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:29 am
Ankerson wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
DSH007 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:56 am
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 562257002/

US population ~ 327 million. Two confirmed coronavirus cases in the US.
Chinese population ~ 1.3 billion. 830 sickened, 26 dead due to coronavirus in China.

Out of all the things that I have to be worried about today, Kung Flu is not one of them. Don't think it'll bother me tomorrow either..

For now.... ;)

So far they have kept it somewhat contained.

Something to keep an eye on.
It seems the confirmed cases have more than doubled in the US.. You may all be right to be so worried.. hell, I'm not quite sure how I lasted out the weekend wandering so far from my bunker and rations.. ;)

I am not that worried... ;)

Keeping my eye on it though, and prepared to react just incase.

It will spread, there is little doubt that will happen, how much and how fast is the question.

The next few months will tell the tell of were it is.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby emanuel » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:44 pm

Any official numbers on the mortality rate? Is it again one of those strains that only kill immunocompromised people, children and old folks? Couldn't find anything online, but given that SARS had it at round 7% and how similar they are, they could be close, probably a bit higher. It would be pretty bad but not even close to what all the media makes it out to be. The only issue is the incompetence of the Chinese state being more concerned about their image than keeping this under control. Sigh, what more can be expected from communists..?
Last edited by emanuel on Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Corona Virus, Chinese Origin, Now In the USA

Postby Ankerson » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:11 pm

emanuel wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:44 pm
Any official numbers on the mortality rate? Is it again one of those strains that only kill immunocompromised people, children and old folks? Couldn't find anything online, but given that SARS had it at round 7% and how similar they are, they couldn't be close, probably a bit higher. It would be pretty bad but not even close to what all the media makes it out to be. The only issue is the incompetence of the Chinese state being more concerned about their image than keeping this under control. Sigh, what more can be expected from communists..?

They did react fast in trying to contain it and them being a Communist country is the only reason why they could react as fast as they did doing what they had to. They can lock things down much faster and more securely than other countries can.

That's lucky for the rest of the world that they could do that. If this would have happened in NYC it would have been out of control already and spread across the whole USA by comparison... By the time they got done politicking it would have spread across the US, Canada and Mexico and into Europe etc in much higher rates.

Their problem is high population density so...


Back in the cold war days we in the US would have reacted faster than would be possible today due to the changes that happened after it ended.

The US was more prepared back then than it is today.


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