If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

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If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby kennethsime » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:03 am

What would you have me buy instead?

I like the size and FFG for a camp knife, batoning and the like. I like the micarta handles. I don't particularly care for the 1095, and could do without the coating on the blade. The price range is ok, but I feel like maybe I could get more steel for the money.

I'm thinking that someone must be making something similar but with a modern powder steel or higher-end tool steel like M4 or something.
C90GRE Stretch 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open
C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V
C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green
C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Naperville » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:33 pm

>> Spyderco Province Fixed Blade Knife 6.76" CPM-4V Satin Bowie
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Lum Tanto, Native Chief(?), Street Beat (AEB-L, NioMax or Nitro-V at 63HRC).

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Naperville » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:37 pm

MY STEEL NOTES:

- Uddeholm Vanadis 4E (aka "4 EXTRA") Steel
One of the toughest non-stainless, powdered tool steels. "A non-stainless tool steel much like a high speed steel, except it is optimized for cold work rather than hot cutting of metal. It is one of the toughest powdered steels available with its high vanadium content for evenly distributed carbides. Expect better edge retention / wear resistance than CPM 3V, much like M390, and tougher than M4."

Vanadis 4e(V4e) and CPM 4V are basically identical, just made by different companies.

CPM 4V is very close to the composition of Bohler Uddeholm Vanadis 4 Extra. It has better edge holding than CPM 3V and is tougher than M4.

I think Crucible was brilliant to make this steel. V4E is an excellent steel with one problem. It is very hard to buy from BU. We’ve been trying to get this steel for years and have only succeeded in getting a few small pieces. Crucible recognized the demand and made CPM 4V. V4E has the advantage of its third generation particle metallurgy. CPM 4V has the advantage of being available for sale.

'I call 4V the "perfect love child of 3V and M4". Edge retention close to that of M4 with toughness close to that of 3V. It will take a screaming sharp edge like M4 and holds it very well. Added bonus is that it can be ran at 63 Rc with a very thin edge (.008" - .010" BTE) and used hard.'




- CPM 4V

CRUCIBLE INDUSTRIES SAYS:
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets ... t%204V.pdf

CPM 4V is a powder metal tool steel with an outstanding combination of properties including high impact toughness and very good wear resistance. CPM 4V should be considered for service in fine blanking, powder compaction tools, for processing high-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steels, advanced high-strength steels (AHSS) and applications where a combination of strength, wear resistance and toughness is required.

Applications: CPM 4V should be considered for applications where a higher attainable hardness and additional abrasion resistance is required than can be offered by CPM 3V.

4V is tougher than: CPM Rex M4, CPM 10V, A2, D2
4V is NOT as tough as: CPM 1V, CPM 3V

4V has MORE wear resistance than: 1V, 3V, A2, D2
4V has LESS wear resistance than: M4, 10V, but it is very close to M4 in wear resistance.

Typical HRC numbers are between 58HRC and 64HRC



ZKNIVES SAYS:

CPM 4V(Crucible) - Crucible CPM alloy. Very similar to Bohler-Uddeholm Vanadis 4E steel. As Crucible states it has high impact toughness and wear resistance and should be considered for the applications whre higher attainable hardness and wear resistance are desired compared to Crucible CPM 3V steel. Both features would work well for light/medium use knives. Haven't used CPM 4V, however its analog form Bohler-Uddeholm, Vanadis 4E is definitely one of the best knife steels I have ever used. CHeck Vanadis 4E for more info.


BLADE HQ SAYS:

4V
Edge Retention: 8
Toughness: 9
Ease of Sharpening: 5
Corrosion Resistance: 5

3V
Edge Retention: 7
Toughness: 10
Ease of Sharpening: 5
Corrosion Resistance: 5

M4
Edge Retention: 9
Toughness: 7
Ease of Sharpening: 3
Corrosion Resistance: 2

S35VN
Edge Retention: 8
Toughness: 6
Ease of Sharpening: 5
Corrosion Resistance: 7

A2
Edge Retention: 6
Toughness: 8
Ease of Sharpening: 4
Corrosion Resistance: 5

D2
Edge Retention: 7
Toughness: 6
Ease of Sharpening: 3
Corrosion Resistance: 4


NATHAN THE MACHINIST (KNIFEMAKER) SAYS:

4V is stronger and less tough, so there is less damage, but it tends to be more catastrophic when it happens. It will shrug off things that would dent 3V, but when it crosses its tipping point you get a blowout or a break. I've had one chip out in concrete and broken one cutting though a 1/2" hardened steel bolt. It's an alloy used in competitions because it doesn't show damage that would get points deducted. This allows you to go thinner. Thinner is faster.
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Lum Tanto, Native Chief(?), Street Beat (AEB-L, NioMax or Nitro-V at 63HRC).

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Ankerson » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:24 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:03 am
What would you have me buy instead?

I like the size and FFG for a camp knife, batoning and the like. I like the micarta handles. I don't particularly care for the 1095, and could do without the coating on the blade. The price range is ok, but I feel like maybe I could get more steel for the money.

I'm thinking that someone must be making something similar but with a modern powder steel or higher-end tool steel like M4 or something.

Well, depends on your budget.

Anything of good quality and or worth buying is going to cost more than the ESSE 6, normally around $100 more and up depending on what it is.

There are however plenty of excellent options out there, all depends on what you want to spend.

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Bloke » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:24 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:03 am
What would you have me buy instead?
A Province, if your budget allows. ;) :)
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Doc Dan » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm

One thing to consider is your actual needs. If this is a camp knife then anything goes. If it is fir survival, then a steel that can be sharpened easily in the field if you are separated from your equipment is a good idea.

Buck makes outdoor knives in 5160 of medium to large sizes.
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby kennethsime » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:04 am

Ankerson wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:24 pm
kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:03 am
What would you have me buy instead?

I like the size and FFG for a camp knife, batoning and the like. I like the micarta handles. I don't particularly care for the 1095, and could do without the coating on the blade. The price range is ok, but I feel like maybe I could get more steel for the money.

I'm thinking that someone must be making something similar but with a modern powder steel or higher-end tool steel like M4 or something.

Well, depends on your budget.

Anything of good quality and or worth buying is going to cost more than the ESSE 6, normally around $100 more and up depending on what it is.

There are however plenty of excellent options out there, all depends on what you want to spend.
Budget-wise, I was thinking something in the same range - $100-150. I've been looking though, and it seems like the ESEE 6 may actually be the best value in that price range. The RAT-7 comes in a bit cheaper, but I'd feel a bit "icky" buying that over the ESEE. The Bradford Guardian 6 comes in at $240 or so with the 3V, which seems like a reasonable upgrade. And of course, as several have recommended, the Province comes in around $280 for 4V and a Spyderhole.

I think I might take the same approach as the Flashlights; I may end up with an ESEE 6 or similar as the entry point before I go and spend 3x that on a nicer fixed blade.
C90GRE Stretch 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open
C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V
C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green
C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green
C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby kennethsime » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm
One thing to consider is your actual needs. If this is a camp knife then anything goes. If it is fir survival, then a steel that can be sharpened easily in the field if you are separated from your equipment is a good idea.

Buck makes outdoor knives in 5160 of medium to large sizes.
Very fair point Dan! I really just want a knife I can process wood with. This would probably suit my needs fine, but I think I'd go for the ESEE at that price point.
C90GRE Stretch 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open
C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V
C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green
C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green
C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:56 am

If I was going to buy an Esee6 it would be the 6HM. It is the only Esee that interests me.

I like KaBar/Becker knives better. The ergos are great. The handles seem big at first but the comfort level is well worth the bulk. Check out the BK10, it is similar blade length and thickness as the Esee6. The BK7 is similar but a little longer. Then there is the BK9 which is outstanding but large.

In that size range I am also a fan of the Varustaleka Jääkäripuukko 140. It needs some edge work upon arrival but it is a great knife for a great price. It has a scandi grind which some love and some hate. I think I paid about $65 with a leather sheath.

Those are both quality tools for under $100 that you could bet your life on.
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Wartstein » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:29 am

kennethsime wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:03 am
What would you have me buy instead?

I like the size and FFG for a camp knife, batoning and the like. I like the micarta handles. I don't particularly care for the 1095, and could do without the coating on the blade. The price range is ok, but I feel like maybe I could get more steel for the money.

I'm thinking that someone must be making something similar but with a modern powder steel or higher-end tool steel like M4 or something.

I don´t have a Province (recommended several times here) myself, but would certainly get this one if I was in the market for a larger fixed blade!

Should you go Esee: From my experience with the Laser Strike I have and from what others say:

If you want a decent cutting tool you most likely will have to reprofile /thin out behind the edge an Esee knife. Mine frankly was a terrible cutter with very thick edge out of the box, but on the other hand reprofiling is not a big deal on the soft 1095.

Speaking of "soft 1095": Edge retention also is less than ideal, though on mine that got a bit better after several full sharpenings.

On the flipside my Laser Strike is very tough and as said easy to sharpen. Still I don´t really use it as a main camp knife, to be honest it is my throwing knife and pretty good and durable at that. But as a cutting tool it´s still not my first choice at all.

For a large (Esee 6 size) camp knife I have a Boker Plus Rold (almost exactly Esee 6 size) in D2 steel (see pic of that model below (not my pic, not my personal knife)).
It´s decent, but again: From all I know I´d take a Province over it.

The Boker is no longer in production,but can still be found at a discounted price for example at bhq (140 USD)
EDIT: You can get it both coated and uncoated.
EDIT 2: Just found out: The current version of the Boker (now called Boker Plus Rold SK5 ) looks to be exactly the same, is 15 bucks more but in a not specified "high carbon steel" (instead of D2, which (D2) most would say is not the best choice for a larger camp knife anyway, but for me it worked out rather well in my particular Boker)
EDIT 3: Anyway, get the PROVINCE!! :D

Image
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Accutron » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am

For your price range, have a look at Work Tuff Gear. They're a fairly new Taiwan company, and they have a large catalog of full tang outdoor fixed blades. They use Bohler K110 (D2) and SK-85 with milled G10 handles, and their knives all include Kydex sheaths. They're probably the best bargain in quality outdoor knives right now.

If you're willing to double your budget, something by Bradford in 3V or M390 would be a good option.

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:41 am

kennethsime wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm
One thing to consider is your actual needs. If this is a camp knife then anything goes. If it is fir survival, then a steel that can be sharpened easily in the field if you are separated from your equipment is a good idea.

Buck makes outdoor knives in 5160 of medium to large sizes.
Very fair point Dan! I really just want a knife I can process wood with. This would probably suit my needs fine, but I think I'd go for the ESEE at that price point.

What do you mean by processing wood exactly?

It seems to be different for everyone so....

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:48 am

kennethsime wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm
One thing to consider is your actual needs. If this is a camp knife then anything goes. If it is fir survival, then a steel that can be sharpened easily in the field if you are separated from your equipment is a good idea.

Buck makes outdoor knives in 5160 of medium to large sizes.
Very fair point Dan! I really just want a knife I can process wood with. This would probably suit my needs fine, but I think I'd go for the ESEE at that price point.
That’s not the knife I meant. The ones I spoke of are American made of 5160 tool steel. https://www.bladehq.com/?search=Buck+5160
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:54 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:48 am
kennethsime wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm
One thing to consider is your actual needs. If this is a camp knife then anything goes. If it is fir survival, then a steel that can be sharpened easily in the field if you are separated from your equipment is a good idea.

Buck makes outdoor knives in 5160 of medium to large sizes.
Very fair point Dan! I really just want a knife I can process wood with. This would probably suit my needs fine, but I think I'd go for the ESEE at that price point.
That’s not the knife I meant. The ones I spoke of are American made of 5160 tool steel. https://www.bladehq.com/?search=Buck+5160

Like this one... Buck 119 in 5160.

https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Knives-Spec ... B06ZZMTRKC

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 am

Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:54 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:48 am
kennethsime wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm
One thing to consider is your actual needs. If this is a camp knife then anything goes. If it is fir survival, then a steel that can be sharpened easily in the field if you are separated from your equipment is a good idea.

Buck makes outdoor knives in 5160 of medium to large sizes.
Very fair point Dan! I really just want a knife I can process wood with. This would probably suit my needs fine, but I think I'd go for the ESEE at that price point.
[/quote
That’s not the knife I meant. The ones I spoke of are American made of 5160 tool steel. https://www.bladehq.com/?search=Buck+5160

Like this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Knives-Spec ... B06ZZMTRKC
Copperandclad.com makes this and in stock...cheap too.

https://copperandclad.com/product/buck- ... 119bkssh1/

What’s even better is they have this knife in S30V.
Last edited by Doc Dan on Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:01 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:54 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:48 am
kennethsime wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 am


Very fair point Dan! I really just want a knife I can process wood with. This would probably suit my needs fine, but I think I'd go for the ESEE at that price point.
I forgot about that one. Good choice. That is SKBlades, isn’t it, or copperandclad?
That’s not the knife I meant. The ones I spoke of are American made of 5160 tool steel. https://www.bladehq.com/?search=Buck+5160

Like this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Knives-Spec ... B06ZZMTRKC

I know the 119's seemed to hold up pretty well from what I saw of them being used in the field when I was in the Military.

And those were the standard ones in stainless.


Don't discount stainless, I have a Randall Model 14 in stainless I would up against just about anything under any type use anywhere.

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:04 am

Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:01 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:54 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:48 am


I forgot about that one. Good choice. That is SKBlades, isn’t it, or copperandclad?
That’s not the knife I meant. The ones I spoke of are American made of 5160 tool steel. https://www.bladehq.com/?search=Buck+5160

Like this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Knives-Spec ... B06ZZMTRKC

I know the 119's seemed to hold up pretty well from what I saw of them being used in the field when I was in the Military.

And those were the standard ones in stainless.


Don't discount stainless, I have a Randall Model 14 in stainless I would up against just about anything under any type use anywhere.
Yeah, I was just posting that copperandclad makes this in S30v as well.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:07 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:04 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:01 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:54 am



Like this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Knives-Spec ... B06ZZMTRKC

I know the 119's seemed to hold up pretty well from what I saw of them being used in the field when I was in the Military.

And those were the standard ones in stainless.


Don't discount stainless, I have a Randall Model 14 in stainless I would up against just about anything under any type use anywhere.
Yeah, I was just posting that copperandclad makes this in S30v as well.

If he doesn't want to spend a lot I would say get a Buck 119 for now and see how that goes.

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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:09 am

Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:07 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:04 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:01 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 am

I know the 119's seemed to hold up pretty well from what I saw of them being used in the field when I was in the Military.

And those were the standard ones in stainless.


Don't discount stainless, I have a Randall Model 14 in stainless I would up against just about anything under any type use anywhere.
Yeah, I was just posting that copperandclad makes this in S30v as well.

If he doesn't want to spend a lot I would say get a Buck 119 for now and see how that goes.
Yeah, good knives, and he has steel choices.
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Re: If I was going to buy an ESEE 6...

Postby Ankerson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:09 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:09 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:07 am
Doc Dan wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:04 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:01 am



I know the 119's seemed to hold up pretty well from what I saw of them being used in the field when I was in the Military.

And those were the standard ones in stainless.


Don't discount stainless, I have a Randall Model 14 in stainless I would up against just about anything under any type use anywhere.
Yeah, I was just posting that copperandclad makes this in S30v as well.

If he doesn't want to spend a lot I would say get a Buck 119 for now and see how that goes.
Yeah, good knives, and he has steel choices.

Yeah they are pretty good really, nice classic design.


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