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[vivi]

Mods, please close this thread. The discussion is not following the intended subject. Thanks.

[Ankerson]

Had a ton of flashlights and lanterns over the decades as I am sure a lot of people my age have.

Still have a few OLD ones from the military in the attic in storage and a couple regular old ones floating around someplace in drawers etc.

Started using Maglites about 30 years ago or so and still have 4 or 5 old ones (Non LED) around and 4x LEDs.

What I like about the Maglites is the VERY LONG run times you get with the D-Cells.... And the LED Models are not weak at 625 Lumens and 16 HR run time on high.

Then the 2 Surefire EDCL1-T and EDCL2-T and the New Streamlight ProTac HL5-X.

Yeah they have come a very long way from the ones I can remember from about 50 years ago.

In the end anything is better than using a lighter or a match. :)

Not something I get overly excited about personally as they are just flashlights in the end.

Maybe some day the new type batterys will give us very long run times again.

[ChrisinHove]

As a surveyor, often of very old buildings, flashlights (or torches, as they are properly known ) are pretty important to me to enable to do my job safely and well.

Good run times, bright but floody mule head, robust body and switch, decent grip size, minimal fumbling and only 2 modes are what I’ve concluded are important. Plus a back-up head torch.

For years now I’ve been using a cheap and cheerful Solarforce 18650 p60 host, Sportac triple led mule 2-mode drop-in, stainless bezel and switch protection, and a Petzl Zipka.

[JD Spydo]

A few years back a friend of mine introduced me to SUREFIRE flashlights and at one time I even had one of their knives too. Right at this very time I have two Surefire flashlights for EDC uses. One I've had since about 2013 is my E2D Defender model and the other one is my Surefire 6PX PRO model which I've had a little over a year now. Both of them use 123A batteries. And I've gotten the rechargable 123A batteries and I'm doing very well at this time with just those two illumination tools.

When I get better healed money wise I eventually want to get a couple of Surefire's super high lumen models. I know that Surefire units are pricey but I've had such great luck with them over the years I really don't see any reason in switching brands at this time. I'm just wondering what you guys who are really knowledgeable think of Surefire's products compared to several others out there on the market.

If anyone can show me a better flashlight for the price I'll sure check them out.

[ugaarguy]

Maybe some day the new type batterys will give us very long run times again.

A NiMH D cell has 10,000 mAh capacity. That that's 10 amp hours times 1.2 volts, or 12 watt hours of capacity. The fairly new 21700 size lithium battery (21 mm diameter by 70.0 mm length) is a moderate size increase over the 18650 (18 mm x 65.0 mm) size lithium battery. 18650s have topped out at 3,600 mAh capacity, or 3.6 amp hours x 3.6 volts, for 12.96 watt hours. The slightly larger 21700 is already up to 5,000 mAh capacity, or 18 watt hours (5 amp hours x 3.6 volts).

The Thrunite TN30 mini, which loses some efficiency because it's running three LEDs, still gets 470 lumens for 15 hours, running a set of four 18650s with 3,400 mAh capacity each. That's on MEDIUM mode in a soda can sized light - http://www.thrunite.com/thrunite-mini-t ... lashlight/. That's pretty darn close to the mag lite numbers you quoted.

I'm just wondering what you guys who are really knowledgeable think of Surefire's products compared to several others out there on the market.

The Olight M2R warrior is about the same size as your E2D (The heads are the same diameter, and the M2R carries that diameter the full length). The M2R is $90. At that price it includes a 3500 mAh 18650 battery, charging cord, bi-directional deep carry pocket clip, and a few other niceties. The M2R has independent side and tail switches. The tail switch is always momentary on / constant on in 1,000 lumen turbo, just like a Surefire clicky. Alternately, you can set it up for partial press momentary on 1,500 lumen turbo with full press for momentary strobe, similar to the how the old two stage Surefire tail switches work. I use the slightly lower powered momentary / constant config. The side switch then gives you access to the other modes, and remembers the last mode it was used in. The side switch has direct access to the night vision preserving one lumen moonlight mode via the long press shortcut, and it will memorize the moonlight mode as well.

The $125 Acebeam T36 is a more 6P sized light, but it uses an included 5100 mAh 21700 battery, and it has a USB-C charging port built into the head of the light. The tail switch is momentary / constant turbo only (no tail switch strobe option, which I rather like), and the turbo mode is 2,000 lumens. The other modes are accessible through the independent side switch, with operation just like the competing Olight M2R. The T36's ultra low mode is 2 lumens. That's a bit more than I like for dark adjusted eyes, but it's still far better than the 5 lumen or more lowest mode of many other tactical style lights.

Those are 2 lights that I like better than Surefire for both features and value.

[abbazaba]

Here are a few current stand outs for my uses:

Jetbeam Mini-1 - My true EDC. Always on my keys, two modes (just twist further, not off and on again), USB charging, replaceable battery. 5 hours on low, 30 mins on high (130 lumens). It's been enough to get me down the mountain, find dropped bolts in the engine bay, or pull a hard drive from under a desk.

Emisar D4, v2 - **** that's bright, ramping UI, 18350 config drops in my pocket and I'm never under gunned for projects, dog walking. Nice low moonlight mode for quick navigating or nightlighting. Candle mode, lighting storm = crowd pleasers.

Zebralight SC63 - Great run times, nice UI (IMO), one of the smaller 18650. It lives in my go to bag, and a great addition to my headlamp when I know I'm going to be out after sunset. I also keep a simple pair of wires in my bag that charge my phone from it's 18650 if needed.

Jaxman M8 - I keep them near the doors to the house. Starts on HIGH mode as a decent 18650 thrower, when "WTF was that noise outside" happens.

BLF LT1 - Just dropped, but this is going to dominate car camping this year with awesome run times and tons of options. Initial impressions are very good, and the (adjustable!) tint combined with many different modes is pretty great.

I'm all ears for a better headlamp... I keep going back to the Black Diamond Spot. Simple, effective, ramping...

[ugaarguy]

...flashlights (or torches, as they are properly known ...

Nope, we won our independence from y'all in the late 1700's. We beat y'all again in the war of 1812 to maintain our independence. The proper name is flashlight :p

[Ankerson]

Maybe some day the new type batterys will give us very long run times again.

A NiMH D cell has 10,000 mAh capacity. That that's 10 amp hours times 1.2 volts, or 12 watt hours of capacity. The fairly new 21700 size lithium battery (21 mm diameter by 70.0 mm length) is a moderate size increase over the 18650 (18 mm x 65.0 mm) size lithium battery. 18650s have topped out at 3,600 mAh capacity, or 3.6 amp hours x 3.6 volts, for 12.96 watt hours. The slightly larger 21700 is already up to 5,000 mAh capacity, or 18 watt hours (5 amp hours x 3.6 volts).

The Thrunite TN30 mini, which loses some efficiency because it's running three LEDs, still gets 470 lumens for 15 hours, running a set of four 18650s with 3,400 mAh capacity each. That's on MEDIUM mode in a soda can sized light - http://www.thrunite.com/thrunite-mini-t ... lashlight/. That's pretty darn close to the mag lite numbers you quoted.

I'm just wondering what you guys who are really knowledgeable think of Surefire's products compared to several others out there on the market.

The Olight M2R warrior is about the same size as your E2D (The heads are the same diameter, and the M2R carries that diameter the full length). The M2R is $90. At that price it includes a 3500 mAh 18650 battery, charging cord, bi-directional deep carry pocket clip, and a few other niceties. The M2R has independent side and tail switches. The tail switch is always momentary on / constant on in 1,000 lumen turbo, just like a Surefire clicky. Alternately, you can set it up for partial press momentary on 1,500 lumen turbo with full press for momentary strobe, similar to the how the old two stage Surefire tail switches work. I use the slightly lower powered momentary / constant config. The side switch then gives you access to the other modes, and remembers the last mode it was used in. The side switch has direct access to the night vision preserving one lumen moonlight mode via the long press shortcut, and it will memorize the moonlight mode as well.

The $125 Acebeam T36 is a more 6P sized light, but it uses an included 5100 mAh 21700 battery, and it has a USB-C charging port built into the head of the light. The tail switch is momentary / constant turbo only (no tail switch strobe option, which I rather like), and the turbo mode is 2,000 lumens. The other modes are accessible through the independent side switch, with operation just like the competing Olight M2R. The T36's ultra low mode is 2 lumens. That's a bit more than I like for dark adjusted eyes, but it's still far better than the 5 lumen or more lowest mode of many other tactical style lights.

Those are 2 lights that I like better than Surefire for both features and value.

Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity of
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 625 Lumen 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet to match that kind of efficiency and the other lights are still playing catch up with the battery life.

A lot of the flashlight nerds talk down about Maglite, but the truth is they are still one of the best flashlights that you can buy today. Hard to beat the 3 and 4 D's...

[ugaarguy]

Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet.

No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.

[Ankerson]

Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet.

No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.

Could is not is however.

Fact is the LED's have outpaced the batteries in the new lights.

They keep coming out with newer LED's that drain the batteries even faster.

Yes, they are brighter, but with a 1 to 2 hour run time in MOST of them on high....

The PROTAC HL 5-X USB/PROTAC HL 5-X with the 18650's only runs 11.5 hours on low (250 lumens)… granted it's a bright 250 Lumens...

[vivi]

Mods, please close this thread. The discussion is not following the intended subject. Thanks.

[Ankerson]

Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet.

No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.

Could is not is however.

Fact is the LED's have outpaced the batteries in the new lights.

They keep coming out with newer LED's that drain the batteries even faster.

Yes, they are brighter, but with a 1 to 2 hour run time in MOST of them on high....

The PROTAC HL 5-X USB/PROTAC HL 5-X with the 18650's only runs 11.5 hours on low (250 lumens)… granted it's a bright 250 Lumens...

Doesn't seem to me you've kept up to date with technology. Here's runtimes from the two year old UC35 v2:



My outdated Surefire keychain light gets 300 lumens for an hour and a half.

Anyways here's some beamshots of the Surefire. First image is ambient lighting, last image is my UC35 on turbo:







Happy with it so far. It doesn't seem to come on in a pocket with other things stuffed in it, and it feels really durable. The floody beam pattern seems well suited to the close up work this light will see. Time will tell if I prefer it to my PD25. It'll be a nice option for summer when I care more about the weight and size of my EDC items.

Was talking about full sized flashlights...

The PROTAC HL 5-X USB is 3500 Lumens on high and Strobe... 1000 on Med and 250 on low.

It is new model...

[Ankerson]

Was looking and the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) beats all of the other newer full sized light run times from the main companies.

At equal or close output ranges.... Some actually a lot less and the Maglite still beats them... With the plain old D-Cell Alkaline batteries...

So Maglite is doing something right, that's for sure.

Looks like their LED and power management is MUCH more efficient...

But the other lights cost more than they do in general.

[ugaarguy]

Could is not is however.

Fact is the LED's have outpaced the batteries in the new lights.

They keep coming out with newer LED's that drain the batteries even faster.

Yes, they are brighter, but with a 1 to 2 hour run time in MOST of them on high....

The PROTAC HL 5-X USB/PROTAC HL 5-X with the 18650's only runs 11.5 hours on low (250 lumens)… granted it's a bright 250 Lumens...

No, LEDs have gotten much more efficient. You keep stating things as facts which are simply false.

Was looking and the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) beats all of the other newer full sized light run times from the main companies.

At equal or close output ranges.... Some actually a lot less and the Maglite still beats them... With the plain old D-Cell Alkaline batteries...

So Maglite is doing something right, that's for sure.

Looks like their LED and power management is MUCH more efficient...

But the other lights cost more than they do in general.

Umm, no. They're gaming the FL-1 standard. take a look at your Mag Lite's run time graph - http://www.led-resource.com/2015/04/mag ... lx-review/ against the run time graph of the Fenix TK75 - https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-tk75- ... d=1&pid=14. Fenix is one of the only companies which puts run time graphs on their boxes, and in the main product pictures on their website. As much as I like Olight, I wish they'd be as open as Fenix with run time graphs.

[Ankerson]

Could is not is however.

Fact is the LED's have outpaced the batteries in the new lights.

They keep coming out with newer LED's that drain the batteries even faster.

Yes, they are brighter, but with a 1 to 2 hour run time in MOST of them on high....

The PROTAC HL 5-X USB/PROTAC HL 5-X with the 18650's only runs 11.5 hours on low (250 lumens)… granted it's a bright 250 Lumens...

No, LEDs have gotten much more efficient. You keep stating things as facts which are simply false.

Was looking and the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) beats all of the other newer full sized light run times from the main companies.

At equal or close output ranges.... Some actually a lot less and the Maglite still beats them... With the plain old D-Cell Alkaline batteries...

So Maglite is doing something right, that's for sure.

Looks like their LED and power management is MUCH more efficient...

But the other lights cost more than they do in general.

Umm, no. They're gaming the FL-1 standard. take a look at your Mag Lite's run time graph - http://www.led-resource.com/2015/04/mag ... lx-review/ against the run time graph of the Fenix TK75 - https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-tk75- ... d=1&pid=14. Fenix is one of the only companies which puts run time graphs on their boxes, and in the main product pictures on their website. As much as I like Olight, I wish they'd be as open as Fenix with run time graphs.

Yeah, by about an hour at 450 Lumens compared to 625.

And at almost 3X the cost...

And using 4x 18650 batteries or 8x CR123A's...

Instead of 3x simple Alkaline D-Cells for the Maglite.

Could talk about battery cost too... Roughly another $100 for the 4x batteries (Not included). Putting that light over 4X the cost of the ML300L(X).

For about 1 hour added run time at less output...

Doesn't sound MORE efficient to me.....

[ChrisinHove]

...flashlights (or torches, as they are properly known ...

Nope, we won our independence from y'all in the late 1700's. We beat y'all again in the war of 1812 to maintain our independence. The proper name is flashlight :p

:D

They were literally torches - as in the flaming sort - at the time!

[Ankerson]

...flashlights (or torches, as they are properly known ...

Nope, we won our independence from y'all in the late 1700's. We beat y'all again in the war of 1812 to maintain our independence. The proper name is flashlight :p

:D

They were literally torches - as in the flaming sort - at the time!

I have heard them called both, either one is fine.

[vivi]

Could is not is however.

Fact is the LED's have outpaced the batteries in the new lights.

They keep coming out with newer LED's that drain the batteries even faster.

Yes, they are brighter, but with a 1 to 2 hour run time in MOST of them on high....

The PROTAC HL 5-X USB/PROTAC HL 5-X with the 18650's only runs 11.5 hours on low (250 lumens)… granted it's a bright 250 Lumens...

No, LEDs have gotten much more efficient. You keep stating things as facts which are simply false.

Was looking and the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) beats all of the other newer full sized light run times from the main companies.

At equal or close output ranges.... Some actually a lot less and the Maglite still beats them... With the plain old D-Cell Alkaline batteries...

So Maglite is doing something right, that's for sure.

Looks like their LED and power management is MUCH more efficient...

But the other lights cost more than they do in general.

Umm, no. They're gaming the FL-1 standard. take a look at your Mag Lite's run time graph - http://www.led-resource.com/2015/04/mag ... lx-review/ against the run time graph of the Fenix TK75 - https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-tk75- ... d=1&pid=14. Fenix is one of the only companies which puts run time graphs on their boxes, and in the main product pictures on their website. As much as I like Olight, I wish they'd be as open as Fenix with run time graphs.

Can we all just ignore Ankerson?

For some reason he gets off on coming into threads in the off topic section and proving how ignorant he can be. Esee's are lawnmower blades, computers are only considered computers if they run the latest games, and only maglite knows how to make a good flashlight :rolleyes:

Hopefully this thread can be about flashlights instead of explaining to Ankerson why he is wrong....again. Either way he's back on my list.

[Ankerson]

Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet.

No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.

Simple question..

If it was possible then why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Take the Maglite LED (Or close as you can get, comparable performance) and put it in front of 3x 21700 cells?

That light doesn't exist today.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a ~625 Lumen light with ~40 hours of run time on high that stays bright?

I think if it was really possible they would have done it and the light would be on the market.

If they could do it they would likely sell like crazy..... Maybe depending on cost I suppose.


They seem to be more concerned about making those little EDC size and the Lumen Monsters.

[vivi]

Mods, please close this thread. The discussion is not following the intended subject. Thanks.