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ugaarguy
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Re: Flashlights

#21

Post by ugaarguy »

Ankerson wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:44 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:06 am
Ankerson wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:14 pm
Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet.
No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.


Simple question..

If it was possible then why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Take the Maglite LED (Or close as you can get, comparable performance) and put it in front of 3x 21700 cells?

That light doesn't exist today.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a ~625 Lumen light with ~40 hours of run time on high that stays bright?

I think if it was really possible they would have done it and the light would be on the market.

If they could do it they would likely sell like crazy..... Maybe depending on cost I suppose.


They seem to be more concerned about making those little EDC size and the Lumen Monsters.
You answered your own question. The flashlight companies are making what sells, and those are either EDC size lights or lumen monsters. They could do what you're suggesting, but it wouldn't sell. 625 lumens as a high mode on a light big enough to hold 3x 18650 or 3x 21700 wouldn't sell. There's nothing secret about your MagLite. It uses a Cree XM-L2 LED. You just need a host to hold the XM-L2, 3x 21700 in parallel, a low current driver, and the rest of the associated components. If you want to do it, I'm sure one of the Chinese companies on AliExpress will do it for you for the right price. It can be done.
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Re: Flashlights

#22

Post by Ankerson »

ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:57 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:44 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:06 am
Ankerson wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:14 pm
Like I was saying it's still not all that close really, the Maglite 3D ML300L(X) is still 625 Lumens with Peak Beam Intensity
41,200 and runs for 16 Hours on high, 77 hours on Low (130 lumens) And D's aren't all that expensive and rechargeables are available too.

Reason why I have 2 of the 3D's and will keep them around just incase.

They still have a long way to go yet.
No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.


Simple question..

If it was possible then why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Take the Maglite LED (Or close as you can get, comparable performance) and put it in front of 3x 21700 cells?

That light doesn't exist today.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a ~625 Lumen light with ~40 hours of run time on high that stays bright?

I think if it was really possible they would have done it and the light would be on the market.

If they could do it they would likely sell like crazy..... Maybe depending on cost I suppose.


They seem to be more concerned about making those little EDC size and the Lumen Monsters.
You answered your own question. The flashlight companies are making what sells, and those are either EDC size lights or lumen monsters. They could do what you're suggesting, but it wouldn't sell. 625 lumens as a high mode on a light big enough to hold 3x 18650 or 3x 21700 wouldn't sell. There's nothing secret about your MagLite. It uses a Cree XM-L2 LED. You just need a host to hold the XM-L2, 3x 21700 in parallel, a low current driver, and the rest of the associated components. If you want to do it, I'm sure one of the Chinese companies on AliExpress will do it for you for the right price. It can be done.


I have an LED 1200 LUMEN Lantern that will run for 40 hours on 6X D-Cells.

So I am sure they could make a flashlight that is say 625 to 1000 lumens and make it run for a long time...

Longer than the lights currently do anyway.

Not sure why they really shouldn't make one, would be an excellent flashlight for emergencies etc like that are currently going on and have happened lately. A fairly bright flashlight with a very long run time would be good in places were people didn't have access to power for long periods of time and or batteries etc. So to actually utilize those batteries is what I am saying.

I think if they made them they would sell.
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Re: Flashlights

#23

Post by Cycletroll »

I've pretty much got my EDC lights covered. Main Torch is a Surefire E2T-MV (Tactician) which has IMHO the best combination of features and interface for a defensive/utilitarian light. Has a momentary tail switch which can be screwed in to create constant on but I generally leave in momentary position. On high it is 800 lumens of well balanced flood for 90 min. Twist the head CC 1/4 turn and you've got 5 lumens for 70+ hours. It is an idiot proof system, doesn't turn on automatically in pocket, and has Surefire's great USA build quality and warranty. Runs on 2 CR123's.
Backup is a tiny keychain peanut size, USB rechargeable Olight i1R2Eos that is 5 lumen or 150 lumen.
I put a Surefire like Vivi mentioned on my wife's keychain. She loves it!
Have an Olight Perun in the car for search or work duties. Love the magnetic base! Just stick it to the side of the car or on the hood for flat changes or engine work. Also have headlight strap for it.
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Re: Flashlights

#24

Post by vivi »

Mods, please close this thread. The discussion is not following the intended subject. Thanks.
Last edited by vivi on Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flashlights

#25

Post by Ankerson »

Ankerson wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:13 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:57 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:44 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:06 am

No, they've already beaten D batteries. 21700 lithium cells have nearly twice the energy storage capacity of a NiMH D Cell, in a smaller, lighter package. You could set up three 21700s in parallel to power that Ml300XL, and it would run for almost twice as long. It would also sustain the max brightness for longer because lithium batteries have vert little voltage sag under load. If NiMH D cells were more efficient at storing energy than the 21700 cell, you'd see battery packs made using NiMH D cells powering electric vehicles.


Simple question..

If it was possible then why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Take the Maglite LED (Or close as you can get, comparable performance) and put it in front of 3x 21700 cells?

That light doesn't exist today.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a ~625 Lumen light with ~40 hours of run time on high that stays bright?

I think if it was really possible they would have done it and the light would be on the market.

If they could do it they would likely sell like crazy..... Maybe depending on cost I suppose.


They seem to be more concerned about making those little EDC size and the Lumen Monsters.
You answered your own question. The flashlight companies are making what sells, and those are either EDC size lights or lumen monsters. They could do what you're suggesting, but it wouldn't sell. 625 lumens as a high mode on a light big enough to hold 3x 18650 or 3x 21700 wouldn't sell. There's nothing secret about your MagLite. It uses a Cree XM-L2 LED. You just need a host to hold the XM-L2, 3x 21700 in parallel, a low current driver, and the rest of the associated components. If you want to do it, I'm sure one of the Chinese companies on AliExpress will do it for you for the right price. It can be done.


I have an LED 1200 LUMEN Lantern that will run for 40 hours on 6X D-Cells.

So I am sure they could make a flashlight that is say 625 to 1000 lumens and make it run for a long time...

Longer than the lights currently do anyway.

Not sure why they really shouldn't make one, would be an excellent flashlight for emergencies etc like that are currently going on and have happened lately. A fairly bright flashlight with a very long run time would be good in places were people didn't have access to power for long periods of time and or batteries etc. So to actually utilize those batteries is what I am saying.

I think if they made them they would sell.

I have been talking to a few of the Flashlight companies and they all basically said the same thing.

The technology is not currently available in anything smaller than a lantern or it would already be on the market. So what I was asking them is actually something that they have been trying to do already.

So the real answer to why they don't exist is the technology isn't available yet to do it in the 1st place.

It all comes down to heat in the end, they can't displace the heat safely is the bottom line.

So they need to come up with a more efficient LED or something new that doesn't heat up as much.
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Re: Flashlights

#26

Post by ShaneInDenver »

I used a Streamlight Microstream for a few years before I lost it one night, so I replaced it with a Sofirn SP40 with a 4000k led. I'm kind of new to the whole flashlight scene and stumbled across this model on reddit's r/flashlights.

Things I like about the light. USB charging, It's really bright, I like the warmer tint of the 4000k led, the magnetic tail cap has been super handy when working on my car and the 90°angle on the light makes clipping it on my jacket very convenient.

Things I don't like about the light. It has accidentally turned on in my jacket pocket and it's heavier and larger than my old Microstream. Staying with the right angled flashlights, I ordered a Manker E02 for a smaller more EDC friendly carry. I like the idea of being able to grab AAA batteries pretty much anywhere.

And just for fun I couldn't help myself from ordering the BLF Q8. While the size isn't too bad, the weight makes it pretty impractical.
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Re: Flashlights

#27

Post by Ankerson »

Here are my 4 good ones. :)

Top to bottom:

Streamlight ProTac HL5-X USB (3500 Lumens)
Maglite ML300LX (625 Lumens)
Surefire EDCL2-T (1200 Lumens)
Surefire EDC1-T (500 Lumens)

Image
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Re: Flashlights

#28

Post by ugaarguy »

Ankerson wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:22 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:13 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:57 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:44 pm




Simple question..

If it was possible then why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Take the Maglite LED (Or close as you can get, comparable performance) and put it in front of 3x 21700 cells?

That light doesn't exist today.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a ~625 Lumen light with ~40 hours of run time on high that stays bright?

I think if it was really possible they would have done it and the light would be on the market.

If they could do it they would likely sell like crazy..... Maybe depending on cost I suppose.


They seem to be more concerned about making those little EDC size and the Lumen Monsters.
You answered your own question. The flashlight companies are making what sells, and those are either EDC size lights or lumen monsters. They could do what you're suggesting, but it wouldn't sell. 625 lumens as a high mode on a light big enough to hold 3x 18650 or 3x 21700 wouldn't sell. There's nothing secret about your MagLite. It uses a Cree XM-L2 LED. You just need a host to hold the XM-L2, 3x 21700 in parallel, a low current driver, and the rest of the associated components. If you want to do it, I'm sure one of the Chinese companies on AliExpress will do it for you for the right price. It can be done.


I have an LED 1200 LUMEN Lantern that will run for 40 hours on 6X D-Cells.

So I am sure they could make a flashlight that is say 625 to 1000 lumens and make it run for a long time...

Longer than the lights currently do anyway.

Not sure why they really shouldn't make one, would be an excellent flashlight for emergencies etc like that are currently going on and have happened lately. A fairly bright flashlight with a very long run time would be good in places were people didn't have access to power for long periods of time and or batteries etc. So to actually utilize those batteries is what I am saying.

I think if they made them they would sell.

I have been talking to a few of the Flashlight companies and they all basically said the same thing.

The technology is not currently available in anything smaller than a lantern or it would already be on the market. So what I was asking them is actually something that they have been trying to do already.

So the real answer to why they don't exist is the technology isn't available yet to do it in the 1st place.

It all comes down to heat in the end, they can't displace the heat safely is the bottom line.

So they need to come up with a more efficient LED or something new that doesn't heat up as much.
Ankerson, you're shifting the goal posts. First it was why can't they make a light that has the same output of 625 lumens for the same run time as your maglite, but running on 18650 or 21700 rechargeable batteries. Now you're shifting the target to a Li-Ion battery powered light with the same run time and brightness as a 6x D cell lantern. So, which is it? Yes, heat will always be an issue, and that's all based on how hard the LED is driven and for how long, mitigated by how much mass (and what of what material) you have to absorb and dissipate the heat. It doesn't matter what battery you use. As LEDs get more efficient the run times will increase.
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Re: Flashlights

#29

Post by Ankerson »

ugaarguy wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:01 pm
Ankerson wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:22 am
Ankerson wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:13 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:57 pm

You answered your own question. The flashlight companies are making what sells, and those are either EDC size lights or lumen monsters. They could do what you're suggesting, but it wouldn't sell. 625 lumens as a high mode on a light big enough to hold 3x 18650 or 3x 21700 wouldn't sell. There's nothing secret about your MagLite. It uses a Cree XM-L2 LED. You just need a host to hold the XM-L2, 3x 21700 in parallel, a low current driver, and the rest of the associated components. If you want to do it, I'm sure one of the Chinese companies on AliExpress will do it for you for the right price. It can be done.


I have an LED 1200 LUMEN Lantern that will run for 40 hours on 6X D-Cells.

So I am sure they could make a flashlight that is say 625 to 1000 lumens and make it run for a long time...

Longer than the lights currently do anyway.

Not sure why they really shouldn't make one, would be an excellent flashlight for emergencies etc like that are currently going on and have happened lately. A fairly bright flashlight with a very long run time would be good in places were people didn't have access to power for long periods of time and or batteries etc. So to actually utilize those batteries is what I am saying.

I think if they made them they would sell.

I have been talking to a few of the Flashlight companies and they all basically said the same thing.

The technology is not currently available in anything smaller than a lantern or it would already be on the market. So what I was asking them is actually something that they have been trying to do already.

So the real answer to why they don't exist is the technology isn't available yet to do it in the 1st place.

It all comes down to heat in the end, they can't displace the heat safely is the bottom line.

So they need to come up with a more efficient LED or something new that doesn't heat up as much.
Ankerson, you're shifting the goal posts. First it was why can't they make a light that has the same output of 625 lumens for the same run time as your maglite, but running on 18650 or 21700 rechargeable batteries. Now you're shifting the target to a Li-Ion battery powered light with the same run time and brightness as a 6x D cell lantern. So, which is it? Yes, heat will always be an issue, and that's all based on how hard the LED is driven and for how long, mitigated by how much mass (and what of what material) you have to absorb and dissipate the heat. It doesn't matter what battery you use. As LEDs get more efficient the run times will increase.


I asked them flat out if it was possible to make a LONG running full sized flashlight from 625-700 Lumens that would run for a long time on HIGH without stepping down. Long running was something in the 20 to 40 hour range..... Longer the better though. I mentioned the Maglite run time and they say they can't do that either without stepping down to under that Lumen range.... The reason the Maglite does it is because of the D-Cells that as they drain down the light gets dimer automatically.

They all said NO as the technology doesn't exist in anything less than a lantern size currently.



Should have asked them about it in the 1st place. :rolleyes:

It all comes to down to heat and keeping that at safe levels. (What I figured because they do run hot/heat up fast except for the Streamlight, it's not bad at all. But that's a larger full sized light with a heat sink so.).

So one day when they develop a cool running LED or the next technology light whatever that would be maybe we will see something.

Until then we are stuck with what we have now technology wise.

The lantern I mentioned was nothing more than a basic example of what is possible.

It just happened to be the answer (I didn't know that when I asked them) as it is the lantern size lights that currently can do it because of the technology.
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Re: Flashlights

#30

Post by Ankerson »

Here are my two main lanterns, the small one is rechargeable, 1200 lumens large and 400 lumens smaller one. I have other smaller ones too just incase. Both have VERY long run times even on high, especially the big one. I used to have a few Coleman LED lanterns years ago and they really weren't as good as either of these are. When the Coleman lanterns started giving me issues, that's NOT a good thing during a long power outage I researched lanterns and got these.

I know they aren't flashlights, but still very relevant because they provide long term area lighting and that is important in emergency situations.


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Re: Mods, please close this thread

#31

Post by Enactive »

For the love of knives...AND flashlights/ torches. COME ON GUYS!!!

Oh, yeah,-- (forgot the first time) HAPPY NEW YEAR! (yes i was yelling)!
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Re: Flashlights

#32

Post by Ankerson »

JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:06 pm
A few years back a friend of mine introduced me to SUREFIRE flashlights and at one time I even had one of their knives too. Right at this very time I have two Surefire flashlights for EDC uses. One I've had since about 2013 is my E2D Defender model and the other one is my Surefire 6PX PRO model which I've had a little over a year now. Both of them use 123A batteries. And I've gotten the rechargable 123A batteries and I'm doing very well at this time with just those two illumination tools.

When I get better healed money wise I eventually want to get a couple of Surefire's super high lumen models. I know that Surefire units are pricey but I've had such great luck with them over the years I really don't see any reason in switching brands at this time. I'm just wondering what you guys who are really knowledgeable think of Surefire's products compared to several others out there on the market.

If anyone can show me a better flashlight for the price I'll sure check them out.

I got the rechargeable CR123A's and charger for my Surefires too. :)

I keep a few boxes of the non rechargeable CR123A's because they have longer run times and long storage terms. Good to keep in the go bag etc.

I would say look at the reviews, there does seem to be quite a few of them out there, kinda like knife reviews.

Or stay with what you know, just a newer model, you can catch them on sale on B&H Photo if you keep lookout. . :)

I don't really know a lot about flashlights other than my own use over the decades and the research I have done when I was looking at them.

Flashlights are not a hobby for me, I use them so they are tools to me. Keep them in the cars, go bag, around the house etc.

Jim
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Re: Mods, please close this thread

#33

Post by Ankerson »

A few photos of the Streamlight Protac HL5-X USB while I am charging the batteries.


Still waiting on the AC charger kit to come in, so this is the USB cable charging them currently. It takes either 2X 18650 or 6x CR123A's.


Image


End View with the cap off.


Image


Front View.


Image


Side View, has the ten tap programing switch for 3 different modes. (High/Strobe/Low) (High Only) (Low/Med/High)

High - 3500 Lumens - Strobe - 3500 Lumens - Med - 1000 Lumens - Low - 250 Lumens

2500 Lumens with the CR123A batteries.


Image


And the end cap.


Image
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Re: Flashlights

#34

Post by SF Native »

AccountDeletedUserRequest wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:57 pm
Mods, please close this thread. The discussion is not following the intended subject. Thanks.
I think Ankerson broke Vivi. I can understand that. Jim has been on ranting tear lately.
Vivi, if you read this, come back when you are ready. We are better with you in our ranks than without you. We will miss you until you come back.
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Re: Flashlights

#35

Post by Naperville »

SF Native wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:33 pm
AccountDeletedUserRequest wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:57 pm
Mods, please close this thread. The discussion is not following the intended subject. Thanks.
I think Ankerson broke Vivi. I can understand that. Jim has been on ranting tear lately.
Vivi, if you read this, come back when you are ready. We are better with you in our ranks than without you. We will miss you until you come back.
I started a thread inquiring as to his whereabouts days ago and the mod killed it. I guess I need a few thousand more posts for my messages to be revered.
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
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Re: Mods, please close this thread

#36

Post by shunsui »

Guys, it's a forum. People have different opinions and a discussion doesn't always follow the intended subject. It's no one's fault.
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Re: Mods, please close this thread

#37

Post by The Mastiff »

I think Ankerson broke Vivi. I can understand that. Jim has been on ranting tear lately.
Don't see how that would be possible. Jim has done nothing more than any of us do here and from what I see he did nothing wrong. Vivi never seemed to be especially fragile to me and he gave as good as he got the few times it became necessary. I like his contributions here too just as I do Jim A.'s. I'd bet whatever made Vivi decide to leave was more than a few posts in a thread. People are complicated and have whole lives outside of this forum.

Whatever the case I'm sure Vivi is fine. He is an intelligent guy. If it's in his interests to return he will and if not he won't. It's a decision we all make about the things we spend our time on. Don't go blaming anyone for the decisions Vivi made.

Joe
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