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OK I just got back to the house here after going to the grocery store here on BLACK FRIDAY no less :rolleyes: . On my way back from a major dose of hustle insanity and people acting like possessed HERD ANIMALS no less I got to thinking about some things. First off who invented this concept of BLACK FRIDAY :confused: ?? Or any of these other designated Holidays either for that matter? And Why do so many seemingly intelligent people fall for this gig :confused: . Also why do we have to eat turkey and stuffing on the day that the Government has designated as Thanksgiving day :confused: Why couldn't you just eat tacos instead if that's what you like :confused: ?? Hey I have spiritual beliefs and I do believe that all of us who are doing well in the industrialized Free World should be thankful for all we have and have been blessed with compared to those who are forced to live in squalor in many other countries.

But my ultimate question is>> "Who Makes These Rules Of What We Are To Do On Certain Holidays. My mother for instance ( GOD Rest her wonderful soul) never had a New Year's Day in which she didn't make "Black Eyed Peas" as one of the foods for that holiday. When I asked her why she felt that she just had to do that>> she then responded to me that it was the right thing to do on that particular holiday because of some silly tradition :confused: REALLY!!!??? Seriously!!!!???

Again I just want to know who makes up all these rules and expects us all to correlate and coincide like HERD ANIMALS and fall into this traditional non-sense as though it's mandatory :confused: Why Do We Have To Have Christmas Trees? Why Do We Have To Go Shop ON BLACK FRIDAY :confused: :rolleyes:

Who or what has programmed us to be societal HERD ANIMALS that must follow a set narrative on a certain day>> a day that THEY call a holiday no less. Why can't a person just do what the heck they want to do on those certain days and eat what the heck they want to eat>> I refuse to be a corralled Herd Animal. But try telling that to the Pre-Programmed General Public. Or have I got it all wrong? And if so Why?

We're not herd animals. We're social creatures, who function within a society. To answer your question would require at least a 100 level course each in sociology, marketing, and psychology; perhaps more depending on how detailed of an answer you want. Someone more intelligent and more eloquent than I could probably give you a good answer in a paragraph or so.

People like tradition, that doesn’t make us herd animals. You can be an individual and a free thinker and still enjoy being a part of something larger than yourself. I just don’t see how you connected those two dots.

If you want to celebrate festivus or make up your own tradition then go for it, nobody is stopping you. You also aren’t being forced to follow any tradition you don’t want to. I know a few people who celebrate alternative holidays or who don’t celebrate certain popular holidays. I’m not seeing a herd from my angle.

I didn’t go shopping today... I don’t even have Christmas decorations up. I did fry a turkey yesterday, because my family wanted me to... if I really didn’t wanna do it, ida not showed up. Do what you want to do, life’s to short. For me, i wanted to make my mom and dad happy, so I went to their house and fried up a turkey for folks.
I understand what you’re getting at, i often think similar thoughts. I think about throwing my iPhone out the window going down the highway on a regular basis... we lived for a long time without them. Maybe I’ll go back to a pager? But nothing makes you feel more like a herd animal than being in a TSA line or being at Universal Studios. Yet last month, there I was, with my iPhone, waiting in a TSA line so I could fly to universal studios :D

ugaarguy wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:16 pm

We're not herd animals. We're social creatures, who function within a society. To answer your question would require at least a 100 level course each in sociology, marketing, and psychology; perhaps more depending on how detailed of an answer you want. Someone more intelligent and more eloquent than I could probably give you a good answer in a paragraph or so.

Hey look I do completely understand what you're saying. And in no way am I saying that people that enjoy and like to do all of these traditional holiday activities are Herd Animals per se. My point was that I believe people are just so pre-programmed in so many ways anymore. Just look at how cell phones even seem to dictate most people's lives for instance.

Oh for sure I had great holiday memories from years gone by. But I've changed in many ways too>> I haven't had a Christmas tree or any type of traditional Christmas celebration in probably 30 years. When my parents were still living I went along with it just to appease them.

No if someone wants to participate or if they genuinely enjoy it all then that's a completely different narrative than what I was getting at.

JD Spydo wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:10 pm

OK I just got back to the house here after going to the grocery store here on BLACK FRIDAY no less :rolleyes: . On my way back from a major dose of hustle insanity and people acting like possessed HERD ANIMALS no less I got to thinking about some things. First off who invented this concept of BLACK FRIDAY :confused: ?? Or any of these other designated Holidays either for that matter? And Why do so many seemingly intelligent people fall for this gig :confused: . Also why do we have to eat turkey and stuffing on the day that the Government has designated as Thanksgiving day :confused: Why couldn't you just eat tacos instead if that's what you like :confused: ?? Hey I have spiritual beliefs and I do believe that all of us who are doing well in the industrialized Free World should be thankful for all we have and have been blessed with compared to those who are forced to live in squalor in many other countries.

But my ultimate question is>> "Who Makes These Rules Of What We Are To Do On Certain Holidays. My mother for instance ( GOD Rest her wonderful soul) never had a New Year's Day in which she didn't make "Black Eyed Peas" as one of the foods for that holiday. When I asked her why she felt that she just had to do that>> she then responded to me that it was the right thing to do on that particular holiday because of some silly tradition :confused: REALLY!!!??? Seriously!!!!???

Again I just want to know who makes up all these rules and expects us all to correlate and coincide like HERD ANIMALS and fall into this traditional non-sense as though it's mandatory :confused: Why Do We Have To Have Christmas Trees? Why Do We Have To Go Shop ON BLACK FRIDAY :confused: :rolleyes:

Who or what has programmed us to be societal HERD ANIMALS that must follow a set narrative on a certain day>> a day that THEY call a holiday no less. Why can't a person just do what the heck they want to do on those certain days and eat what the heck they want to eat>> I refuse to be a corralled Herd Animal. But try telling that to the Pre-Programmed General Public. Or have I got it all wrong? And if so Why?

Went to the Grocery Store today too, wasn't busy at all, had to go pick up a few things. :)

COCA COLA really commercialized XMAS. :rolleyes:

Not sure what started Black Friday however.

Thanksgiving is a very long tradition here in the US starting with the Pilgrims.

XMAS, well we all know what XMAS celebrates, not talking about the commercialized shopping thing. Easter is really the big one though, or should I say the more important celebration if you want to get technical.




Nobody says that people have to celebrate anything really. You don't have to do anything except breathe air, drink water and eat food.

Things become traditions over the years and or a celebration like Thanksgiving and XMAS.



Personally I don't know why people in general do a lot of things, my mind doesn't seem to work the same way as the majority. :confused:

I never got taken up with fads, celebrities, sports figures, Politicians or things that MOST people seem to think they have to do or matter.



Most so called holidays are no more than a joke today. Notice how they fall on a Monday or Friday so the Government can have a long weekend. They moved MOST of them from their original dates that really did mean something... Now all they are is a 3 day weekend for the GOV.

Also MOST have been commercialized to get people to spend money they really don't have just because..

Joe,

I don’t shop on Black Friday, nor do I stress out about Christmas shopping or Thanksgiving travel. The traditions of Christmas, Valentine’s Day, etc., have long been commercialized, convincing people they HAVE TO spend money to please spouses and family members. You’re a good husband/wife/dad/mom/brother/sister, etc., because you bought me a good present. And if I don’t like it, I can return it on December 26th.

It was actually quite ingenious, because it worked. And many people seem to like it. I’ve seen people whose Thanksgiving tradition is spending Thanksgiving night camping out in line on the cold sidewalk in front of an electronics store to get their Black Friday deals. For some (many, apparently), that in itself has ear tradition. I guess if they enjoy it, great.

Myself, I don’t see the value in stressing over Christmas presents and cards, or Black Friday or Cyber Monday or whatever. I don’t understand all the stress people go through to fly cross-country to eat a turkey dinner with family, then stress again to get back home. For many it’s stress, stress, stress. I guess I’m weird, but I cannot understand the concept of stressing to relax. If it’s all about seeing family ‘back home’, why must it be done at the same time as everybody else, creating the worst travel days of the year, and more stress?

Maybe I’m lucky because in my immediate and extended family, most of them who live locally, have de-emphasized the importance of gifts and cards, except for my great-nephew and great-niece, who are still little kids. I don’t care about receiving presents. If there’s something I want, I can get it myself. Why do I need someone else to get it for me? They probably don’t even know what I like, anyway, and vice versa. As a kid I LOVED Christmas and getting toys or gadgets. Of course. It lost its luster for me at around age 15 or so. But it’s been in more recent years that I’ve really noticed all the stress associated with these holidays. It’s supposed to be “the happiest season of all,” but when I need to shop for groceries where others are Christmas shopping, I don’t see many smiles on the faces of people whose carts are full of Christmas cards, gifts and wrapping paper, totally unlike how Christmas shoppers are presented in commercials (beautiful, happy people with perfect smiles).

But it’s not all negative! There is a lot of positives to eliminating as much stress as possible from the holidays. Before our family started de-emphasizing the importance of Christmas gifts, as an adult I viewed the upcoming holidays with trepidation. This was after I returned home from living overseas. Now I don’t stress over it at all. I feel like I’m observing others’ holiday shopping stresses as if from the outside looking in, but with no regrets of my own. But then again, I’ve always been an odd bird.

But if following such traditions, or commercialized variations of traditions make many people happy, then I’m genuinely happy for them.

*edit to add: Didn’t realize what a tortuously rambling post this turned out to be. :p

Jim

Given that we're predators, rather than prey animals, I'd like to think we're more pack animals than herd animals. As such, our pack (at the lowest level family, at the highest nation) may fight with other packs over goods and territory. So yes, to some degree,our behaviors are hard wired and instinctive.

As for Black Friday, which now seems to have morphed into Black November as I've been getting "pre Black Friday" sales offers since shortly after Halloween and am still getting them this morning, I'm not sure when exactly it became a "thing" but I know it didn't exist when I was young. Seems like it might be the retailer's replacement for the Washington's Birthday madhouse sales of my youth and the later President's Day sales after the government decided to roll Washington's and Lincoln's Birthday holidays into one holiday. FWIW, even Wikipedia doesn't have a definitive answer as to its exact origins.

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:08 am

Given that we're predators, rather than prey animals, I'd like to think we're more pack animals than herd animals. As such, our pack (at the lowest level family, at the highest nation) may fight with other packs over goods and territory. So yes, to some degree,our behaviors are hard wired and instinctive.

As for Black Friday, which now seems to have morphed into Black November as I've been getting "pre Black Friday" sales offers since shortly after Halloween and am still getting them this morning, I'm not sure when exactly it became a "thing" but I know it didn't exist when I was young. Seems like it might be the retailer's replacement for the Washington's Birthday madhouse sales of my youth and the later President's Day sales after the government decided to roll Washington's and Lincoln's Birthday holidays into one holiday. FWIW, even Wikipedia doesn't have a definitive answer as to its exact origins.

I like that :) That's a brilliant concept!! Pack animals rather than herd animals. I could go with that with one exception. Except for those who are literally addicted to their cell phones similar to a bad narcotic addiction. I will still maintain that many of those folks are herd animals >> with virtually no mind of their own. I won't back off from that one.

But yeah that makes a lot of sense. Actually it wasn't until about the late 80s until I heard the term "Black Friday" used quite frequently. I truly believe that was a major marketing brainchild probably concocted by some major department store executive>> just a wild guess but I bet I'm not wrong on that one.

JD Spydo wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:20 am

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:08 am

Given that we're predators, rather than prey animals, I'd like to think we're more pack animals than herd animals. As such, our pack (at the lowest level family, at the highest nation) may fight with other packs over goods and territory. So yes, to some degree,our behaviors are hard wired and instinctive.

As for Black Friday, which now seems to have morphed into Black November as I've been getting "pre Black Friday" sales offers since shortly after Halloween and am still getting them this morning, I'm not sure when exactly it became a "thing" but I know it didn't exist when I was young. Seems like it might be the retailer's replacement for the Washington's Birthday madhouse sales of my youth and the later President's Day sales after the government decided to roll Washington's and Lincoln's Birthday holidays into one holiday. FWIW, even Wikipedia doesn't have a definitive answer as to its exact origins.

I like that :) That's a brilliant concept!! Pack animals rather than herd animals. I could go with that with one exception. Except for those who are literally addicted to their cell phones similar to a bad narcotic addiction. I will still maintain that many of those folks are herd animals >> with virtually no mind of their own. I won't back off from that one.

But yeah that makes a lot of sense. Actually it wasn't until about the late 80s until I heard the term "Black Friday" used quite frequently. I truly believe that was a major marketing brainchild probably concocted by some major department store executive>> just a wild guess but I bet I'm not wrong on that one.

There are two types of people, wolves and sheep...

Sheep are led around by the nose their entire life.

Wolves are not.

It's up to them which they want to be.

The way I understand black friday, it's the one day of the year that retailers were almost guaranteed of being in the black in sales, instead of red.

Somewhere along the line, retailers started noticing the day after thanksgiving was one of the highest sales day of the year. Why this is, who knows, but I suspect it's sort of a dead/neutral day with nothing to do for a lot of folks, so they went shopping to get a head start on Christmas gifts, decorations, restock supplies after thanksgiving? Myself, I always went hunting.

Anyway, after retailers realized it was a big shopping day, they started running sales to get more business, and the marketing for it was born.

I think it's mostly just an oportunity retailers have discovered recently, and started to capitalize on.

Firstly, we are primates. Primates are not herd animals.

Secondly, the so-called herd behavior one might see on big shopping days is totally voluntary behavior. In some countries and cultures certain behaviors are not voluntary. Do not engage with them at your peril.

MichaelScott wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:04 pm

Firstly, we are primates. Primates are not herd animals.

Secondly, the so-called herd behavior one might see on big shopping days is totally voluntary behavior. In some countries and cultures certain behaviors are not voluntary. Do not engage with them at your peril.

They live in structured communities actually.

Like most other animals do except the big cats, excluding Lions.

Now some can be thought of as herds while others packs.

Predators are often called packs while the others are called herds.

As far as humans go we see a lot of both, mostly herds however while some are thought of as packs I suppose.

For a few years out of the last 60, I've gone people watching on the busiest shopping days alone or with a significant other. I'd get a coffee and head to the huge malls (Fox Valley, Woodfield) or to Michigan Avenue in Downtown Chicago. I never bought anything, but I too wondered what drove all of these people to go out shopping on the same day.

It's really something when you see a shopping mall with more people and cars than an NFL, NBA or NHL game. There is something to behold in 50,000 people descending on a retail area to celebrate our system. It's capitalism interwoven with religion and good cheer.

I don't understand it but it just gives me a combo of goosebumps and feel good that I don't get any other way.

kiwisailor's thread about city animals brought up an interesting point.

In Countries like India and Countries in Africa people are basically food for the predators, no different than any other herd animal.

People get taken on a regular basis by Tigers, Lions, Crocodiles, Leopards in places in those areas...

So for people over in those areas they are really herd animals for the most part.

But then people over in the more populated cities in North America like NYC as an example they even act like herd animals the way they move around etc. Comparing to the large herds on the plains of Africa... Not really all that different..

So it really depends on how you want to look at it, reality, or not so much reality..

People even react like herd animals when danger is around, fire a gunshot in the middle of a crowd etc and see what happens.

Exactly the same reaction as a herd on the plains in Africa.

Some people are more prone to mob behavior than others. Oftentimes, even people who were not originally a part of it. I’ve personally witnessed mob fights break out in close proximity. Luckily on both occasions, I was above the fray. It was fascinating to see how quickly things progressed from between two people to large-scale mob fights. Even people who were not involved jumped in and started fighting and hitting perfect strangers from behind, or stomping on them.

The same type of mob behavior can be seen when people gleefully loot stores during natural disasters, often taking completely useless non-essentials like TVs. They feel there is anonymity in numbers, so they can get away with anything. When you see some of those people, they almost look like they’re in a trance, eyes wide and blank, with smiles frozen on their faces.

Jim

James Y wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:09 pm

Some people are more prone to mob behavior than others. Oftentimes, even people who were not originally a part of it. I’ve personally witnessed mob fights break out in close proximity. Luckily on both occasions, I was above the fray. It was fascinating to see how quickly things progressed from between two people to large-scale mob fights. Even people who were not involved jumped in and started fighting and hitting perfect strangers from behind, or stomping on them.

The same type of mob behavior can be seen when people gleefully loot stores during natural disasters, often taking completely useless non-essentials like TVs. They feel there is anonymity in numbers, so they can get away with anything. When you see some of those people, they almost look like they’re in a trance, eyes wide and blank, with smiles frozen on their faces.

Jim

Jim,

Things can get out of control pretty quickly with people, never understood that personally. :confused:

Although they can and do shoot looters depending... And they really should....


Jim

Maybe I’m just contrarian, but I see all these Black Friday riot videos and it makes me smile. We don’t have any of that craziness where I live. Everyone has money (or you wouldn’t live here). So I see all these people falling all over each other in a mad rush and know these people are trying to stretch every nickel to tell people that they love them. It’s a weird manifestation of saying “I love you” but the thought is there all the same and this world needs more of that. Now, the stores could find more creative ways to make this safer.

As for use of language, I hear terms like “herd” or “sheeple” and think the use is reduculous and demeaning. It implies that others are something and I am not. Realize it’s like traffic, you can complain about it but you are part of it too. All people can be aggressive or passive. We are the most adaptable species there is. Don’t over simplify all that we are.

SF Native wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:14 pm

Maybe I’m just contrarian, but I see all these Black Friday riot videos and it makes me smile. We don’t have any of that craziness where I live. Everyone has money (or you wouldn’t live here). So I see all these people falling all over each other in a mad rush and know these people are trying to stretch every nickel to tell people that they love them. It’s a weird manifestation of saying “I love you” but the thought is there all the same and this world needs more of that. Now, the stores could find more creative ways to make this safer.

As for use of language, I hear terms like “herd” or “sheeple” and think the use is reduculous and demeaning. It implies that others are something and I am not. Realize it’s like traffic, you can complain about it but you are part of it too. All people can be aggressive or passive. We are the most adaptable species there is. Don’t over simplify all that we are.

Not so much are or not really I believe.

More like people make their own choices for the most part, they choose to do or not to do certain things.

That's the real difference I think, they can follow the crowd or walk a different path, the choice is theirs in the end.

If 99 other people all jump off a cliff are you going to follow them and jump too or make your own choice to walk a different path?

Remember they used to stampede herds of buffalo off cliffs.....

Case and point...

I am in the Spyderco herd.