No More Curvise Writing In Schools??

[James Y]

Something that may have affected my cursive writing all my life is that I’ve never been able to hold a pen or pencil like most people. I don’t know why, but as a child I came to realize that my way of holding a pen is the same way as how people hold chopsticks. I’ve tried the standard way of holding a pen and always return to my own grip. I’ve held a pen like this since I started drawing at around 2 or 3, so for at least 53 years now.

Oddly enough, the first time my mom handed us chopsticks to try out when I was around 6 years old, I was able to use them immediately without any difficulty whatsoever. My older sister could not get the hang of it without great difficulty for the longest time. And we all grew up using forks.

Jim

[Doc Dan]

Yes, I’ve noticed spelling mistakes (very obvious, embarrassing ones) are becoming very common among young people, and by young people I mean college students. Of course in answering the “who/what is to blame?” question, the usual suspects come to mind: parents who don’t care, school boards obsessed with testing and quantifiable results etc., but I would hasten to add that the teacher’s unions and “education colleges” (as if ALL colleges aren’t “education colleges”) are NOT our friends, and they are not actually engaged in an academic enterprise. They are about money and social engineering respectively.

What’s worse is this illiterate generation is the one programming auto correct and spell check.

[Doc Dan]

Something that may have affected my cursive writing all my life is that I’ve never been able to hold a pen or pencil like most people. I don’t know why, but as a child I came to realize that my way of holding a pen is the same way as how people hold chopsticks. I’ve tried the standard way of holding a pen and always return to my own grip. I’ve held a pen like this since I started drawing at around 2 or 3, so for at least 53 years now.

Oddly enough, the first time my mom handed us chopsticks to try out when I was around 6 years old, I was able to use them immediately without any difficulty whatsoever. My older sister could not get the hang of it without great difficulty for the longest time. And we all grew up using forks.

Jim

That’s the way I hold mine. Some like to hold it gripped over the middle finger high up and make a fist almost.

[RustyIron]

Last night I called the chairman of the School Board, and he informed me that not only is cursive writing no longer taught, neither is arrowhead carving and buggy whip weaving.

I study historical records, mostly from about 100+ years ago, when people who needed to write, wrote in cursive. Granted, much of the writing is beautiful. But it's also difficult to read. Sometimes I just don't understand what was written. I'll ask others, "WTF does this say?" Often I have to infer from context, or just guess.

Kids today are better served learning to type quickly and accurately, rather than trying to master some ancient form of hieroglyphics.

To the cursive fanboys, how many pages have you written this month using pen, paper, and cursive writing?

[James Y]

Something that may have affected my cursive writing all my life is that I’ve never been able to hold a pen or pencil like most people. I don’t know why, but as a child I came to realize that my way of holding a pen is the same way as how people hold chopsticks. I’ve tried the standard way of holding a pen and always return to my own grip. I’ve held a pen like this since I started drawing at around 2 or 3, so for at least 53 years now.

Jim

That’s the way I hold mine. Some like to hold it gripped over the middle finger high up and make a fist almost.

Glad to know there are others out there with unconventional grips. Some people, if they look at me writing, have said, “Why are you holding your pen like that? Isn’t it uncomfortable?”

Jim

[James Y]

Kids today are better served learning to type quickly and accurately, rather than trying to master some ancient form of hieroglyphics.

The problem is, too many young people today, while they may write on a computer/phone/tablet quickly, have abysmal spelling and grammar.

I do agree that a lot of cursive writing is hard to read. While I personally do not feel that eliminating cursive writing alone is dumbing down society, I have observed an overall dumbing down of which this may be a part. There are really smart kids and young people out there today, and those types are REALLY intelligent and aware. But OTOH, there is a disturbingly high percentage who are as dumb as doorknobs, regardless of how “computer literate” they may be, and it shows in how they communicate verbally as well as in their writing. One is usually a good indication of the other.

Jim

[JD Spydo]

Kids today are better served learning to type quickly and accurately, rather than trying to master some ancient form of hieroglyphics.

The problem is, too many young people today, while they may write on a computer/phone/tablet quickly, have abysmal spelling and grammar.

I do agree that a lot of cursive writing is hard to read. While I personally do not feel that eliminating cursive writing alone is dumbing down society,

You kind of mis-understand me Jim when I was making reference to Charlotte Iserbyt who for a few years now has been making a lot of observations about how public schools are failing out society and nation. The lack of cursive writing skills is just one of many symptoms indicating that our young people are missing out on the most basic of skills. I also believe that typing or keyboarding as they call it now a days is also extremely essential as well.

They've already got our basic nation's history and constitution knowledge almost non-existent in public schools. And I'm hearing from a couple of sources that I deem reputable that Japanese students are 5 times as proficient in Math skills as American students are. And I've been hearing something along those lines for the past 10 years or so.

No my main thrust of this thread is that as a society we are way to dependent on high tech stuff. As I said in a previous thread most any of my old Math teachers and classes related to math I was never allowed the use of calculator. Learning to do something the hard and difficult way has a way of really putting it deep in your brain. Because when you think about it you at least have to get the correct formula or equation entered into the calculator to get the answer right and kids now a days aren't even attaining those skills from what I can see.

[James Y]

Kids today are better served learning to type quickly and accurately, rather than trying to master some ancient form of hieroglyphics.

The problem is, too many young people today, while they may write on a computer/phone/tablet quickly, have abysmal spelling and grammar.

I do agree that a lot of cursive writing is hard to read. While I personally do not feel that eliminating cursive writing alone is dumbing down society,

You kind of mis-understand me Jim when I was making reference to Charlotte Iserbyt who for a few years now has been making a lot of observations about how public schools are failing out society and nation. The lack of cursive writing skills is just one of many symptoms indicating that our young people are missing out on the most basic of skills. I also believe that typing or keyboarding as they call it now a days is also extremely essential as well.

They've already got our basic nation's history and constitution knowledge almost non-existent in public schools. And I'm hearing from a couple of sources that I deem reputable that Japanese students are 5 times as proficient in Math skills as American students are. And I've been hearing something along those lines for the past 10 years or so.

No my main thrust of this thread is that as a society we are way to dependent on high tech stuff. As I said in a previous thread most any of my old Math teachers and classes related to math I was never allowed the use of calculator. Learning to do something the hard and difficult way has a way of really putting it deep in your brain. Because when you think about it you at least have to get the correct formula or equation entered into the calculator to get the answer right and kids now a days aren't even attaining those skills from what I can see.

Joe,
I wouldn’t be surprised that Japanese students’ overall math skills are better than those in the US. Nor would I be surprised if Taiwanese, Indian and South Korean students’ math skills are at least equal to those in Japan. But in many ways, there is a price to pay.

When I first lived in Taiwan, a wonderful Taiwanese family took me into their home for a few weeks, until I could get my own place. They had like 6 children. This was back in the early-to-mid-‘80s. I remember the middle and high school girls would be up all night ‘til around 2:00 a.m., studying at their desks in their room, then up again at 5:00 or 5:30 a.m. again for more studying before breakfast and school. Later, I met many more kids, as well as other young adults like myself at the time, who told me horror stories of pressure to study. On random occasions, I saw high school and college-age young men riding their motorcycles, walking or sitting down suddenly let out a godawful scream. One was a high school kid who was in my martial arts class; one second he was sitting quietly, then he screamed his head off, then continued sitting there as if nothing happened. The other students barely seemed to notice it. Someone told me it was a way of blowing off steam from the immense pressure they were under to constantly study and succeed.

I agree with you that we rely too much on technology. Especially millennials and younger who have never lived in a world that wasn’t almost 100% computer-dependent. If the grid ever goes down, things will be far, far worse than they would be if everything and everyone weren’t so tech-dependent. Many people can’t even drive somewhere they’ve never been without using the computer-guided direction systems in their cars (I don’t know what it’s called).

Jim

[Ankerson]

I agree with you that we rely too much on technology. Especially millennials and younger who have never lived in a world that wasn’t almost 100% computer-dependent. If the grid ever goes down, things will be far, far worse than they would be if everything and everyone weren’t so tech-dependent. Many people can’t even drive somewhere they’ve never been without using the computer-guided direction systems in their cars (I don’t know what it’s called).

Jim

You are 100% correct.

[wrdwrght]

I agree with you that we rely too much on technology. Especially millennials and younger who have never lived in a world that wasn’t almost 100% computer-dependent. If the grid ever goes down, things will be far, far worse than they would be if everything and everyone weren’t so tech-dependent. Many people can’t even drive somewhere they’ve never been without using the computer-guided direction systems in their cars (I don’t know what it’s called).

Jim

You are 100% correct.

Then I suppose you guys subscribe to the idea that firearms and knives get up on their own and murder people?

Of course you don’t!

But absent all these complaints about what technology is doing to the young are their parents.

Parents—not all, but obviously more than enough—are permitting the Idiocracy to grow, not to forget all the resentments and ensuing blame that has long been bruising America (at least).

Next time someone takes out a bunch of people—and someone will—maybe we ought to ask what kind of parents spawned the killer. Maybe we ought to revisit whether parents own the actions of their kids well into adulthood. It used to be that the weight of society’s behavioral preferences on the family was not un-[insert your nationality here].

[Ankerson]

I agree with you that we rely too much on technology. Especially millennials and younger who have never lived in a world that wasn’t almost 100% computer-dependent. If the grid ever goes down, things will be far, far worse than they would be if everything and everyone weren’t so tech-dependent. Many people can’t even drive somewhere they’ve never been without using the computer-guided direction systems in their cars (I don’t know what it’s called).

Jim

You are 100% correct.

Then I suppose you guys subscribe to the idea that firearms and knives get up on their own and murder people?

Of course you don’t!

But absent all these complaints about what technology is doing to the young are their parents.

Parents—not all, but obviously more than enough—are permitting the Idiocracy to grow, not to forget all the resentments and ensuing blame that has long been bruising America (at least).

Next time someone takes out a bunch of people—and someone will—maybe we ought to ask what kind of parents spawned the killer. Maybe we ought to revisit whether parents own the actions of their kids well into adulthood. It used to be that the weight of society’s behavioral preferences on the family was not un-[insert your nationality here].

It's society as a whole that is to blame.

The current society that we live in today is absolutely unbelievable... And it's not getting better.. :rolleyes:

[wrdwrght]

It's society as a whole that is to blame.

I think we don’t agree.

Individuals who become parents do operate within society but they put their moral weight chiefly on the individuals who make up their own families.

If society sucks—American society can be awfully sucky—we need to wonder at the parenting that launches society’s constituent families.

Schoolyard bullying, for example, which can utterly cripple the lifetimes of its victims (when it does not cause these victims to exact revenge on society), recurs generationally.

Why? Look to the grown-ups in the room. What are they failing to do? Or, what are they doing? Does a bullying parent produce a schoolyard bully? Or own up to it?

[James Y]

It's society as a whole that is to blame.

I think we don’t agree.

Individuals who become parents do operate within society but they put their moral weight chiefly on the individuals who make up their own families.

If society sucks—American society can be awfully sucky—we need to wonder at the parenting that launches society’s constituent families.

Schoolyard bullying, for example, which can utterly cripple the lifetimes of its victims (when it does not cause these victims to exact revenge on society), recurs generationally.

Why? Look to the grown-ups in the room. What are they failing to do? Or, what are they doing? Does a bullying parent produce a schoolyard bully? Or own up to it?

Nobody here said that many people’s parenting isn’t an issue. I’ve known that for a long time. The majority of it seemed to start around the time people my general age started becoming parents (I’m 56). It isn’t just owning up to bullying. Believe it or not, bullying has been going on forever. I experienced it in school...not from everyone or even the majority, but I had dealt with some terrible bullying in elementary school that was worse than some of the bullying incidences that makes the national news today. Parents also have to teach their children how to deal with adversity. There are many kids today who not only bully much more than kids in the past due to social media, but OTOH, kids who haven’t gotten the guidance to develop the character and strength to deal with it. I had to take it into my own hands, with some tips from my dad. I KO’d one of the kids in the schoolyard. Nowadays, I would be arrested for that, and the kid would come back with a gun. So now we have a culture of passive-aggressive cowardice, where ‘everyone’ is supposedly over-protected, but nobody really is. Everything has to be fake rosy or it’s terrible, and everyone gets a trophy just for showing up (and sometimes even not), because otherwise it’ll hurt their self-esteem.

Everyone in the media talks about how we are a divided nation. If we are, it is because we have ALLOWED ourselves to become divided. We (meaning the collective who subscribe to the mainstream media) have allowed ourselves to be manipulated and divided, and we’ve made it way too easy for those who are benefiting from these divisions and distractions. Want a solution? Take back your power: stop giving it up to the talking heads and other so-called authority figures in the media, and take responsibility for yourselves and for your children (not yours personally, but the collective “your”). That’s all I’m going to say on that.

Jim

[Doc Dan]

I can say for certain that none of my students can read. These are PhD and Masters degree students that can’t read and understand simple stories and simple articles. Therefore when they write their papers they have to copy from somebody else . It’s a huge problem. I’ve even had them ask me why they need to learn how to read and understand. If they do read it’s usually a comic book or graphic novel but not a real book. They don’t even have the attention span to do so.

So, expecting them to learn cursive in addition is pushing it. Reading and writing go hand in hand.

[TkoK83Spy]

Last night I called the chairman of the School Board, and he informed me that not only is cursive writing no longer taught, neither is arrowhead carving and buggy whip weaving.

I study historical records, mostly from about 100+ years ago, when people who needed to write, wrote in cursive. Granted, much of the writing is beautiful. But it's also difficult to read. Sometimes I just don't understand what was written. I'll ask others, "WTF does this say?" Often I have to infer from context, or just guess.

Kids today are better served learning to type quickly and accurately, rather than trying to master some ancient form of hieroglyphics.

To the cursive fanboys, how many pages have you written this month using pen, paper, and cursive writing?

Bingo! It's so difficult to read. I remember my 7th grade English teacher FLIPPING OUT when she couldn't read someone's cursive writing...which she enforced in her class. I'll never forget her yelling at me because my dots on my "i" looked more like a slash than a dot. She said something like "this isn't Spanish, what are you? Mexican?" I'll never forget it!

Ohhhh boy, would love to see how that would have went over these days. This was in the mid 1990's and she had to be over 60 years old at the time.

[bearrowland]

My youngest learned it, but I don't know if anyone after him at his school did, and he's 13. I think it was more the teacher's preference than a school guideline. Just think, though...no need for invisible ink. We have the perfect code!

[Ankerson]

I can say for certain that none of my students can read. These are PhD and Masters degree students that can’t read and understand simple stories and simple articles. Therefore when they write their papers they have to copy from somebody else . It’s a huge problem. I’ve even had them ask me why they need to learn how to read and understand. If they do read it’s usually a comic book or graphic novel but not a real book. They don’t even have the attention span to do so.

So, expecting them to learn cursive in addition is pushing it. Reading and writing go hand in hand.

Could be the reason why scientists just basically rehash work that others have already done these days?

Been noticing that trend....

[vivi]

The thread title sure is ironic considering the cries of intellectual decline :D

[JonLeBlanc]

I think we don’t agree.

Individuals who become parents do operate within society but they put their moral weight chiefly on the individuals who make up their own families.

If society sucks—American society can be awfully sucky—we need to wonder at the parenting that launches society’s constituent families.

Schoolyard bullying, for example, which can utterly cripple the lifetimes of its victims (when it does not cause these victims to exact revenge on society), recurs generationally.

Why? Look to the grown-ups in the room. What are they failing to do? Or, what are they doing? Does a bullying parent produce a schoolyard bully? Or own up to it?

Absolutely, I can't tell you how many times I've seen abuse beget abuse... It's sickening and such a predictable cycle.

[James Y]

In many cases it’s the parents’ attitudes passed down to the kids, but there are also more and more kids now being influenced by online hate groups. I’m talking about homegrown hate groups.

Jim