No More Curvise Writing In Schools??

[JD Spydo]

First off I guess I really don't have a direct dog in this fight but I still find it appalling. But a very dear lady friend of mine who I've known since I was a teenager has two grandkids going to our local school system which by the way is rated about the 2nd to 3rd highest in the entire State Of Missouri. People pay outrageous real estate prices and local taxes to live here and nearby Lee's Summit, MO because of those two school systems considered the state's very best ( if not the nation's). But anyway my lady friend called me the other day just totally P'Oed :mad: and I couldn't hardly believe what she was telling me.

She had a bank account he had set up for a grand-daughter for college and it was requiring her Grand-daughter's signature to free up funds for her to go to college on soon. She told me that her grand-daughter who was considered a brilliant student literally could not sign her name in standard cursive handwriting :eek: no she had to print it :confused: Yeah a very bright 18 year old young lady had to print her name :eek:

She said that they no longer require or teach cursive handwriting ( everyday handwriting ). I had heard rumors of that about a year ago but didn't pay any attention to it because it just sounded too ridiculous to be true :rolleyes: Needless to say I was just dumbfounded. My point is this>> who in the **** has been overseeing these school systems here in the USA?? :mad: No wonder we have a generation of kids who don't have the common sense of an earthworm and are dumber than a brick :rolleyes:

IF this isn't a sign of the total disintegration of our society then I don't know what other hint a person would need. Well I'm just wondering what you all might know about this atrocity :confused: "ONLY IN AMERICA" as Don King used to say :rolleyes:

[SF Native]

Many years of presidents and educational goals designed to get test scores up. Be glad she isn’t signing with an X. It’s all atm cards and direct deposit now anyway.
My kid did have to learn cursive but it was brief and she wanted to know. On the flip side, she can type really fast at an age I couldn’t. She is also way ahead in math and other subjects than when I was in school. It’s not all doom and gloom. They see the world is getting full and try to use less to make room for others. Kids around here want to make the world a better place and not just take all they can get.

[The Meat man]

Cursive writing, as well as good penmanship in general, is certainly declining in our society, which is too bad.

Personally, I think that shorthand should be taught in schools again. It's a very rare skill today but in terms of practicality, it's a lot more useful than cursive.

[Naperville]

Funny story about my hand writing JD. I was born in 60.

I learned cursive while attending a Catholic grammar school. I loved it. Family bought me several "ink" pens, and I use to draw the ink up in to the pen to write. I can remember picking out different inks and studying the pens like they had some mystical power.

By the time I completed high school, I could hardly read my cursive class notes.

Went to college and in the first few years I had two associate degrees, one in architecture and another in general studies. Because I took so many drawing and mechanical engineering courses my printing looked like it was computer generated. At the time I wanted to become an architect, but when I found that the courses would not transfer to U of Illinois to study under Architect Stanley Tigerman, I started to study pure engineering courses.

By the time I was out of college, I was right back to slop.

If parents or people would put just a few hours a month in to writing script PERFECTLY, we would not have these problems. But it does take time and effort.

[JD Spydo]

Funny story about my hand writing JD. I was born in 60.

I learned cursive while attending a Catholic grammar school. I loved it. Family bought me several "ink" pens, and I use to draw the ink up in to the pen to write. I can remember picking out different inks and studying the pens like they had some mystical power.

By the time I completed high school, I could hardly read my cursive class notes.

Went to college and in the first few years I had two associate degrees, one in architecture and another in general studies. Because I took so many drawing and mechanical engineering courses my printing looked like it was computer generated. At the time I wanted to become an architect, but when I found that the courses would not transfer to U of Illinois to study under Architect Stanley Tigerman, I started to study pure engineering courses.

By the time I was out of college, I was right back to slop.

If parents or people would put just a few hours a month in to writing script PERFECTLY, we would not have these problems. But it does take time and effort.

OK I know what you're talking about. You are referring to those older "Fountain Pens". And the really old Fountain Pens that you had to fill manually were kind of messy at times but those Fountain Pens would write so beautifully. My late mother only used Fountain pens up till 2 years before she died>> then her health got so bad she didn't mess with them anymore. She thought that anyone using the newer ball point pens were just outright lazy and didn't take any pride in their "penmanship" as she called it.

If you get a copy of the original "Declaration Of Independence" The cursive writing on that document was all done in really old fountain pens and the writing was almost a work of art>> particularly the signature of JOHN HANCOCK.

I'm worried that if these current generations of youth don't at least learn the very basic fundamentals ( handwriting included) that we are going to lose our way as a nation. It's to a point to where they are letting computers and electronic devices do everything for us. When I was going to college about 10 years ago I was taking a Trigonometry class and the instructor demanded that we use top of the line electronic Texas Instrument calculators in class :rolleyes: . My last year in high school if any of my math or algebra or geometry teachers would have caught me with a calculator in class or even in my possession all **** would have broken loose :eek: All those old teachers made you do it the hard way.

[James Y]

My cursive writing never was 'pretty'. Throughout most of my life, I've handwritten in block letters. I can do it very quickly, and many people say my handwriting is very neat, legible, and distinctly recognizable. About the only cursive I still do anymore is my signature.

Not saying that cursive writing is unnecessary. IMO, it's very important, if for nothing else, to have the ability to read reasonably legible cursive writings from the past. Also, almost everybody's cursive writing was nicer-looking than my own. And I've always simply found it easier to write most things in block letters. That way, there is no doubt about my meaning.

Jim

[JD Spydo]

My cursive writing never was 'pretty'. Throughout most of my life, I've handwritten in block letters. I can do it very quickly, and many people say my handwriting is very neat, legible, and distinctly recognizable. About the only cursive I still do anymore is my signature.

Not saying that cursive writing is unnecessary. IMO, it's very important, if for nothing else, to have the ability to read reasonably legible cursive writings from the past. Also, almost everybody's cursive writing was nicer-looking than my own. And I've always simply found it easier to write most things in block letters. That way, there is no doubt about my meaning.

Jim

Jim I can really relate with what you're saying. Because there was a time back about in my mid 20s that it seemed like my handwriting was getting even hard for me to read. But an old girlfriend of mine who I thought had nearly perfect cursive handwriting boldly set me straight >> her handwriting was probably only second to my mother's handwriting it was so beautiful. Which over the years I've discovered that not only women seem to have an advantage in typing and keyboarding skills but they also seem to have far betting handwriting as well.

Well out of frustration of her getting onto my case about it she advised me to quit using cheap ink pens. So I did take her advice and found a huge difference almost immediately. I found that high quality ink pens did indeed make a difference and helped me to become more consistent. I always said over the years when I was doing all kinds of different jobs over the years >>> "IF You Want Good Work Results You Absolutely Must Use Good Tools">> and until she put me straight on using better quality writing instruments I had never considered an ink pen to be a tool>> but it is.

Lately I've been told my signature looks great ( for a man anyway :D ) and over the years I've developed really nice and uniform handwriting. But I do attribute most of my progress to using good quality writing instruments. Now a days if I pick up something like a Bic pen or one of the other cheaper discount pens it feels like I have a club in my hand. Again good work requires good tools... And without a doubt the ladies write better than most of the guys do.

[TomAiello]

I pretty much hated cursive in school and see no value for it in my adult life.

However, my kids go to a (charter) school were cursive is mandatory (and continues until the 8th grade). There's a lot of research showing that it develops fine motor skills for kids, but I'm still fairly skeptical. That may or may not be true, but I don't think it's bad for them, regardless.

[bearfacedkiller]

Nostalgia is a powerful thing and I have a positive memory surrounding learning cursive in school. However, the pragmatist in me finds it about as useful as calligraphy. There are other things I would rather see my son learning in school. If he wants to learn cursive he can do it on his own.

The real issue is the fact that texting and social media are eroding grammar. I don’t care if you have sloppy handwriting but if your grammar sucks then I get frustrated.

[James Y]

My cursive writing never was 'pretty'. Throughout most of my life, I've handwritten in block letters. I can do it very quickly, and many people say my handwriting is very neat, legible, and distinctly recognizable. About the only cursive I still do anymore is my signature.

Not saying that cursive writing is unnecessary. IMO, it's very important, if for nothing else, to have the ability to read reasonably legible cursive writings from the past. Also, almost everybody's cursive writing was nicer-looking than my own. And I've always simply found it easier to write most things in block letters. That way, there is no doubt about my meaning.

Jim

Jim I can really relate with what you're saying. Because there was a time back about in my mid 20s that it seemed like my handwriting was getting even hard for me to read. But an old girlfriend of mine who I thought had nearly perfect cursive handwriting boldly set me straight >> her handwriting was probably only second to my mother's handwriting it was so beautiful. Which over the years I've discovered that not only women seem to have an advantage in typing and keyboarding skills but they also seem to have far betting handwriting as well.

Well out of frustration of her getting onto my case about it she advised me to quit using cheap ink pens. So I did take her advice and found a huge difference almost immediately. I found that high quality ink pens did indeed make a difference and helped me to become more consistent. I always said over the years when I was doing all kinds of different jobs over the years >>> "IF You Want Good Work Results You Absolutely Must Use Good Tools">> and until she put me straight on using better quality writing instruments I had never considered an ink pen to be a tool>> but it is.

Lately I've been told my signature looks great ( for a man anyway :D ) and over the years I've developed really nice and uniform handwriting. But I do attribute most of my progress to using good quality writing instruments. Now a days if I pick up something like a Bic pen or one of the other cheaper discount pens it feels like I have a club in my hand. Again good work requires good tools... And without a doubt the ladies write better than most of the guys do.

Joe,

I was a shorthand reporter (stenographer) for several years, and at the time on my steno machine, I could type up to 240 words per minute, and averaging at 225 WPM, at 98% accuracy. We also had to be able to type on a standard typewriter, and just to qualify for the state exam, you had to be able to type 60 WPM at a similar accuracy rate. That was on the old type of electric typewriters back in the ‘90s. You had to be able to type quickly and accurately when transcribing your shorthand notes. This was back before everything became computerized; I don’t know how it is now. I can’t type that fast and accurately on my iPad, because the keys are only virtual keys, and the setup isn’t exactly the same. I changed professions back in 2006.

I think you’re right about quality writing tools. But I’m too far into my block letters now to go back. Even with a quality writing instrument, my cursive writing will never look or feel great. I suppose a handwriting expert could say a lot about me and my mild OCD if he/she saw my handwriting. :)

Jim

[Doc Dan]

Cursive has been disappearing for quite a while. Friends in the UK tell me none of the schools in their areas teach it any longer. It should be taught. It has been shown that the practice of it is mentally beneficial.

Along with the erosion of cursive writing is a corresponding erosion of grammar. Typos are one thing but when I see people writing with no punctuation or caint never spell nuthin it drives me crazy furdder moor I think it’s a sighn that the teechures don’t no nuttin a tall yu no wut ah men ahm shur yu does.

[JD Spydo]

Well I listened to a lecture by a really smart lady a few years back. Her name is Charlotte Iserbyt and she was a former administrator of Education under Ronald Reagan's presidency. She was saying and still is lecturing to people that there is a literal "Dumbing Down of America" taking place. It goes without saying that in order to be a good slave you've got to be uneducated and dis-informed.
If one of my old, super strict, Southern Baptist school teachers I had growing up would be alive now to hear this they would be blowing an entire panel of fuses.
Charlotte Iserbyt has a couple of really interesting Youtube videos and I encourage any of you who give a hoot to view one of them. And she was on this rampage about 20 years ago. How prophetic she was and still is.

[TomAiello]

America can be as dumb as it wants. It's my responsibility to raise my children to be functional adults, regardless of what everyone else is doing.

[James Y]

Cursive has been disappearing for quite a while. Friends in the UK tell me none of the schools in their areas teach it any longer. It should be taught. It has been shown that the practice of it is mentally beneficial.

Along with the erosion of cursive writing is a corresponding erosion of grammar. Typos are one thing but when I see people writing with no punctuation or caint never spell nuthin it drives me crazy furdder moor I think it’s a sighn that the teechures don’t no nuttin a tall yu no wut ah men ahm shur yu does.

I totally agree with this. Tons of obviously younger English speakers now type in worse than broken English. I’ve known many people from Taiwan, for example, whose spoken English is only so-so, but their written English is very good, far better than a lot of English speakers’, even back in the past, when the general English literacy level in the US was still higher than it is today.

Jim

[JonLeBlanc]

Yes, I’ve noticed spelling mistakes (very obvious, embarrassing ones) are becoming very common among young people, and by young people I mean college students. Of course in answering the “who/what is to blame?” question, the usual suspects come to mind: parents who don’t care, school boards obsessed with testing and quantifiable results etc., but I would hasten to add that the teacher’s unions and “education colleges” (as if ALL colleges aren’t “education colleges”) are NOT our friends, and they are not actually engaged in an academic enterprise. They are about money and social engineering respectively.

[Evil D]

This has been a long long time in the making. My son who is a sophomore in high school has never been taught cursive in school. I showed him some basics and had him do the old school practice papers like I did in school so he can at least sign his name, but penmanship is just a bit of a lost art. Almost all of his school work is done online now and my daughter who is in 6th grade is the same. In English class (or whatever they're calling it now) instead of focusing so much time on handwriting they're spending that time more on reading and vocabulary and grammar. Both kids can still write a letter on paper just fine, they just print it.

[wrdwrght]

You complain about cursive.

Anyone here remember learning to “sound out” unfamiliar words, or to diagram a sentence? Such lost things instill self-discipline and a broader standard of behavior.

They (whoever “they” would be) did not cause these losses. We (as in We the People) own that, but to go further along this line of thinking would become political.

[TomAiello]

Of course in answering the “who/what is to blame?” question, the usual suspects come to mind: parents who don’t care, school boards obsessed with testing and quantifiable results etc., but I would hasten to add that the teacher’s unions and “education colleges” (as if ALL colleges aren’t “education colleges”) are NOT our friends, and they are not actually engaged in an academic enterprise. They are about money and social engineering respectively.

In the end, we are each responsible for our own children. Trying to pass blame to teachers, schools, or other systems is kind of silly.

I care a lot about how my own children turn out. I am less concerned with trying to fix the broken parts of the American system (and make no mistake, there are a lot of broken parts). Remember that old saying about changing the things you can, and having the wisdom to know the difference? I can (and should) help my own children, but trying to fix the whole system is just going to leave me frustrated and bitter.

[Halfneck]

I grew up left-handed going to Catholic school. I was the type of left-hander that wrote with my hand bent. If I had a written paper to turn in it required putting another piece of paper under it so I did not smudge it. I actually had to learn to write right-handed in one grammar class as the old Polish nun teaching it would wack me with a ruler if I wrote left-handed - and occasionally an extra wack if i cursed when she did it. If I put the effort into it I had very neat writing. Fast forward to the Army. Legible & Print were the key focus. My printed writing consists of it being all in capitals, with the capital letters just being bigger. Fast forward after the Army & cancer caused me to lose the use of my left arm. Well the wacks from that Polish nun at least paid off & I have no issue writing right-handed. My cursive is not as good, but mostly from years of not doing it, and when I did it was written left-handed with a bent hand. Doesn't really matter though as college was mostly done on a computer as well as my work in healthcare.

I grew up from a culture of hand-writing to computers. I have the ability, but I really don't use it. I have 2 sons, 1 in his 1st year of college & the other a Junior in High School. My oldest son's handwriting is horrible. I joke that if he were to hand a written note to a bank teller she'd think it was a ransom note. That said, it's not a skill he has needed. He graduated with a 3.5 gpa, earned his Eagle Scout, and is going to an agricultural college. My youngest son's handwriting is better, but still not like what use to be termed good. He's a straight A student & plan on being an Engineer. Both have good grammar & reading skills, but handwriting skills are not as important a factor for them. Computer & typing skills have become more important.

[JonLeBlanc]

Of course in answering the “who/what is to blame?” question, the usual suspects come to mind: parents who don’t care, school boards obsessed with testing and quantifiable results etc., but I would hasten to add that the teacher’s unions and “education colleges” (as if ALL colleges aren’t “education colleges”) are NOT our friends, and they are not actually engaged in an academic enterprise. They are about money and social engineering respectively.

In the end, we are each responsible for our own children. Trying to pass blame to teachers, schools, or other systems is kind of silly.

I care a lot about how my own children turn out. I am less concerned with trying to fix the broken parts of the American system (and make no mistake, there are a lot of broken parts). Remember that old saying about changing the things you can, and having the wisdom to know the difference? I can (and should) help my own children, but trying to fix the whole system is just going to leave me frustrated and bitter.

And that's why I said I would "add" those elements (universities, organized labor etc) to the picture. You are right, it absolutely does start with families and parents, but there are powerful forces arrayed against the individual, and that affects what changes one can make by and for oneself and one's family.