NFL Season: 2019-2020

[JD Spydo]

Garret should be in jail for attempted murder.

I would agree with that had Mason Rudolph been seriously injured. But being football is a violent game by nature you could also make that point on particularly vicious hits in the course of the game as well >> which are totally legal and within the rules of that game. One of the forum members made mention earlier in the thread that professional Ice Hockey is even more vicious and potentially dangerous than football. Also there is the aspect that all of them assume the risk of the game>> and they know what those risks might entail.
I think it would be extremely difficult for a prosecutor to make a valid case under these circumstances. Myles Garrett is certainly going to lose more money than most of us will see in an entire lifetime. He's most certainly not getting off without punishment. And for most of these ego-maniacs to lose their wealth is a drastic, humiliating punishment in and of itself.
In principle I agree with you Doc. But the point is that it just wouldn't be practical under the circumstances without the victim not being seriously injured. I just don't think there's enough damage done to base an attempted murder charge on in this particular case.

[The Mastiff]

I don't think he should be in jail for attempted murder but I agree he should sit out a year to a year and a half with the loss of income plus fines. Pouncey was fine until he started kicking Garrett when he was down. He deserves the suspension just for that.

Most players know not to try to kill or maim the opponents. When they seem to forget they have to pay. It's a dangerous game. I've seen games where people were paralyzed from falls and hits and one in Detroit where the players heart stopped there on the field and the trainers had to restart it right there on the field. Most of the players don't need to be reminded or threatened and see people on their teams go down with terrible injuries every season. When you have ones that can't learn or adapt it's time to end their careers.

[Doc Dan]

Garret should be in jail for attempted murder.

I would agree with that had Mason Rudolph been seriously injured. But being football is a violent game by nature you could also make that point on particularly vicious hits in the course of the game as well >> which are totally legal and within the rules of that game. One of the forum members made mention earlier in the thread that professional Ice Hockey is even more vicious and potentially dangerous than football. Also there is the aspect that all of them assume the risk of the game>> and they know what those risks might entail.
I think it would be extremely difficult for a prosecutor to make a valid case under these circumstances. Myles Garrett is certainly going to lose more money than most of us will see in an entire lifetime. He's most certainly not getting off without punishment. And for most of these ego-maniacs to lose their wealth is a drastic, humiliating punishment in and of itself.
In principle I agree with you Doc. But the point is that it just wouldn't be practical under the circumstances without the victim not being seriously injured. I just don't think there's enough damage done to base an attempted murder charge on in this particular case.

I disagree. He used a weapon, one very capable of crushing a skull, to try and break the QB,s head. I’ve seen what a helmet, baseball bat, and other things wielded as clubs can do. He had the intent, it does not matter that he did not succeed.

[JD Spydo]

Garret should be in jail for attempted murder.

I would agree with that had Mason Rudolph been seriously injured. But being football is a violent game by nature you could also make that point on particularly vicious hits in the course of the game as well >> which are totally legal and within the rules of that game. One of the forum members made mention earlier in the thread that professional Ice Hockey is even more vicious and potentially dangerous than football. Also there is the aspect that all of them assume the risk of the game>> and they know what those risks might entail.
I think it would be extremely difficult for a prosecutor to make a valid case under these circumstances. Myles Garrett is certainly going to lose more money than most of us will see in an entire lifetime. He's most certainly not getting off without punishment. And for most of these ego-maniacs to lose their wealth is a drastic, humiliating punishment in and of itself.
In principle I agree with you Doc. But the point is that it just wouldn't be practical under the circumstances without the victim not being seriously injured. I just don't think there's enough damage done to base an attempted murder charge on in this particular case.

I disagree. He used a weapon, one very capable of crushing a skull, to try and break the QB,s head. I’ve seen what a helmet, baseball bat, and other things wielded as clubs can do. He had the intent, it does not matter that he did not succeed.

But wouldn't the victim or recipient have to file charges before any legal action could be taken? I didn't hear of Mason Rudolph filing any charges. Also I don't know what type of agreements or contractual obligations would apply with their NFL contracts. Maybe it's worded to where the NFL has the final say on it?
Again I agree with you in principle. Without a doubt the guy acted like a thug or hoodlum. But don't you think that the nature of that game causes stuff like that to manifest? Again I agree with you in principle but I just don't think there are any easy answers under these circumstances. And I don't ever recall law enforcement doing anything in regards to the barbarism that takes place in many of these football games. Going back to the 1970s when then Oakland Raider Jack Tatum appeared to have deliberately broke Daryl Stingley's neck and made him a quadraplegic for the rest of his life and there was really nothing done about that by the league or the authorities. Tatum had the nick name "Assassin" during his playing career.
With him not getting any legal or disciplinary action that makes me wonder if you sign away your legal rights when joining the NFL. And I've wondered about that for years now.

[Doc Dan]

Garret should be in jail for attempted murder.

I would agree with that had Mason Rudolph been seriously injured. But being football is a violent game by nature you could also make that point on particularly vicious hits in the course of the game as well >> which are totally legal and within the rules of that game. One of the forum members made mention earlier in the thread that professional Ice Hockey is even more vicious and potentially dangerous than football. Also there is the aspect that all of them assume the risk of the game>> and they know what those risks might entail.
I think it would be extremely difficult for a prosecutor to make a valid case under these circumstances. Myles Garrett is certainly going to lose more money than most of us will see in an entire lifetime. He's most certainly not getting off without punishment. And for most of these ego-maniacs to lose their wealth is a drastic, humiliating punishment in and of itself.
In principle I agree with you Doc. But the point is that it just wouldn't be practical under the circumstances without the victim not being seriously injured. I just don't think there's enough damage done to base an attempted murder charge on in this particular case.

I disagree. He used a weapon, one very capable of crushing a skull, to try and break the QB,s head. I’ve seen what a helmet, baseball bat, and other things wielded as clubs can do. He had the intent, it does not matter that he did not succeed.

But wouldn't the victim or recipient have to file charges before any legal action could be taken? I didn't hear of Mason Rudolph filing any charges. Also I don't know what type of agreements or contractual obligations would apply with their NFL contracts. Maybe it's worded to where the NFL has the final say on it?
Again I agree with you in principle. Without a doubt the guy acted like a thug or hoodlum. But don't you think that the nature of that game causes stuff like that to manifest? Again I agree with you in principle but I just don't think there are any easy answers under these circumstances. And I don't ever recall law enforcement doing anything in regards to the barbarism that takes place in many of these football games. Going back to the 1970s when then Oakland Raider Jack Tatum deliberately broke Daryl Stingley's neck and made him a quadraplegic for the rest of his life and there was really nothing done about that by the league or the authorities. Which makes me wonder if you sign away your legal rights when joining the NFL. And I've wondered about that for years now.

They don’t usually do anything but in cases like this and the one you mention about Tatum, if it can be shown, then the police can arrest them regardless of a player not pressing charges. Too much money at stake.

[Mushroom]

Myles Garrett signed a contract that included a 20 million dollar signing bonus. So it seems like the money he is losing from this suspension won't affect him all that much. When this suspension is over, if he's not back with the Browns, he WILL get signed by someone. (Assuming the league lets him come back)

Also, anyone else see the replay that shows Maurkice Pounceys kick getting blocked and not even contacting Myles Garret? He basically got suspended three games for punching Garretts helmet and face mask and then kicking the back of someone else's leg.

[JD Spydo]

I heard late last night that Garrett is probably going to lose or have to forfeit his signing bonus. I heard it on our local Sports Radio WHB 810. I even heard them mention it by the guys calling the game that evening too. I'm sure he's going to be minus more than a few bucks over this deal.

[SG89]

I thought signing bonuses were guaranteed? I read he's only losing the remainder of his salary for this year (game checks) which is a little over a million dollars

[The Mastiff]

Also, anyone else see the replay that shows Maurkice Pounceys kick getting blocked and not even contacting Myles Garret? He basically got suspended three games for punching Garretts helmet and face mask and then kicking the back of someone else's leg.

Saw that. It changes nothing IMO. If a player tries to kick or stomp someone who is down they deserve a suspension. That he missed is not a mitigating factor. :D

[SF Native]

No, the joke is you not realizing that, had that helmet been turned around the other way, it could've very easily killed Mason Rudolph.
That was way beyond any code. That was flat out lethal had that helmet been turned the other way. It might as well been considered a dam anvil in the hands of Garrett, which btw, NFL players are much stronger and hit a helluva lot harder than hockey players. That's just a fact. Heck, that's why the NFL has outlawed so many types of hits and tackles. Those dudes are flat out dangerous.
I really dont think you understand just how very dangerous that situation was. Mason Rudolph did not have a helmet on.
And, please I'm not trying to.be mean or insensitive, it's just that what happened last night was extremely dangerous and truly trumps whether it was bad tv or.not.

I don’t mean to be rude, but I think you guys are being a bit dramatic and overreacting.
It’s not really that easy to kill someone. People get head injuries everyday that are worse than this and they don’t die. Some unfortunate people do die from head injuries but they are usually much worse than this. Car accidents are a major one or other factors like being elderly.
Also, these are top flight athletes that can do amazing things like catch a ball with one hand while running full speed. All this talk of “if it was the other way around”... it wasn’t. Maybe he was out of control but maybe in enough control to turn the helmet one way and not the other.
Last, NOW you care about Rudolph’s health and well being? He got sacked 4 times in this game and sustained real and lasting damage to his brain. 99% of pro players have cte. 91% of college players & 21% of high school players do too. But there is no concern about the 4 sacks because he was wearing a useless helmet... and that is sanctioned brain damage. Point is, these guys are paid to be violent. Don’t be shocked when they are violent in non-sanctioned ways.

[JD Spydo]

Actually SF Native makes some good points. Take the sport of boxing for instance>> the objective there is to literally knock a man out by way of concussion>> the same thing that the NFL claims they are trying to avoid :confused:

Boxing is nothing more than two adult men ( or in some cases women) that literally commit assault and battery against one another to the point to where an opponent can no longer physically take it>> the sport of boxing is so barbaric to where it would be otherwise illegal in daily life and a felony at that :rolleyes: .

Let's face it to a large degree a lot of people have a sick sort of love for violence and mayhem and football is a sport that fills that void nicely. Personally I like the strategy and science of the game. Sure I appreciate a good tackle or stopping a running back promptly. But football ironically isn't even one of the worst as far as wear and tear on your body and brain. I literally dread to see what results from Ultimate Fighting and Full Contact Martial arts type sports.

They are never going to make football a civilized sport>> at least not in most of our lifetimes. Because of the pride and emotion that these players are dealing with there is no way to fully stop incidents like this.

[TkoK83Spy]

As someone that played college football, granted on the Division 3 level, I played as primarily a slot wide receiver and emergency cornerback. I know I can't really relate to NFL players, but it's still the same game. Yes, I did and still do love seeing a big hit, a huge 3rd down stop, game changing sack/fumble...but would never like to see someone intentionally injured.

SF, I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but I honestly think those percentages are a bit exaggerated. Also, Rudolph was sacked 4 times...but they were clean sacks, nothing that would damage his brain. Again, as I stated before, this is not over dramatic! If you've never laced up some cleats, or strapped on a helmet...you really need to stop making these claims. Honestly, you just don't understand.

Back when I was a sophomore in college in 2002, I ran a simple 6 yard out route towards the sidelines on a 2nd and 3. Our QB got hit as he threw and it was kind of a wobbling duck throw. I attempted to dive towards the sidelines for the catch, though the opposing teams safety was closing in for the possible interception. His knee caught me square in the earhole... so I'm told. I don't remember the hit, nor the rest of that game...and that's scary. Head injuries are no joke (I'm 5-10 190lbs) NOTHING like the size and speed of these players! The intent that Garrett had when swinging that helmet was a malicous act, with intent to do harm. Not to mention just a few weeks ago Rudolph sustained a nasty concussion. Multiple concussions in a season, now monitored these days, will end a players careers (Austin Collie comes to mind)

There is no over reaction and I honestly wish you would stop posting in this thread, because you don't get it. I normally enjoy your comments and conversation, but this seems to be a bit out of your realm. Please stop.

[SF Native]

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2017/cte-fo ... l-players/

Boston university and JAMA. Fairly reliable.

Edit: yes, Rick. Sorry, I will move on.

[JD Spydo]

I've thought about making this a separate thread but I'm not sure it even deserves that much attention But I've been watching all of this recent talk about former NFL QB Colin Kaepernick possibly returning to the league. And just to set the record straight I've never approved of the way he handled his gripe about government and police corruption>> nor have I been at all supportive of his kneeling protests during the national anthem. Yeah I know corruption exists in all governments and it is a problem in our society as well as other political systems around the planet.

But my thoughts have always been>> Your workplace is not the proper place to do your protesting. But on the other hand I've been supportive of him wanting to return to the league. I believe we all make really "not so intelligent decisions" in our lives that we later on regret. With that said I do think he deserves a second chance at playing NFL football. But yesterday the NFL was wanting to have a workout at a facility in Atlanta, GA so team scouts, general managers and other decision makers could see if he still had the skills necessary to play for a team after his long lay off.

Well he changed the venue of the workout very shortly before it was scheduled to start. I would have really liked to see the guy return to the league. But I think Stephen A. Smith stated that he would rather be a martyr with his cause than to genuinely play in the NFL again. So instead of starting a new thread on the subject I just thought I would see what a few of you think about it. I think the guy needs psychiatric help myself This poor guy's brains just aren't working right it doesn't seem What say you all?????

[TkoK83Spy]

I honestly don't think any team will sign him. Reports are. That's he's looked good, especially the long ball. I just can't see any team signing him because of the circus that would certainly be following their team, the backlash of protesters, possible loss of revenue (though I could also see it going the other way and create revenue) but would he be worth the risk?? He's 32 years old and hasn't played the game in a while. I wouldn't want that kind of distraction around my organization as it would surely effect the entire team.

[JD Spydo]

I honestly don't think any team will sign him. Reports are. That's he's looked good, especially the long ball. I just can't see any team signing him because of the circus that would certainly be following their team, the backlash of protesters, possible loss of revenue (though I could also see it going the other way and create revenue) but would he be worth the risk?? He's 32 years old and hasn't played the game in a while. I wouldn't want that kind of distraction around my organization as it would surely effect the entire team.

And I can almost fully agree with what you just said. And this is coming from a guy who is pro-citizen's rights, Pro-Constitution and I'm fully against government corruption of any type. But again your workplace ( his is the football field) is not the place you do your protesting . And to do what he did yesterday as to play some kind of weird "cat & mouse" game when several NFL people were there to see what skills he still had>> and then he goes to some high school away from the scheduled meeting place>> Well that makes me now decide to join his detractors. Because I was serious when I said that this guy (Kaepernick) truly needs psychiatric help I was dead serious.

When you got a chance to make millions of dollars but instead you just want media attention I say the guy's brain is just not working right. And I agree what team would want that type of distraction??? After the Antonio Brown debacle and with all the recent insanity that has taken place I think the fans have had their fill of this non sense. That's my position.

[Mushroom]

I couldn't care less about the way Colin Kaepernick decided to protest but personally I have my doubts about his talent level. Even though he made it to a Superbowl with the 49ers, I never really thought he was all that good. Then after he was blackballed from the league, his talent level got wayyy overhyped. WAY OVERHYPED! I seriously doubt he's still a starter in this league but with guys like Mitchel Trubisky starting, Kaepernick might have a good chance...

I've heard reports of the Patriots expressing interest with the idea being that they could sign him to their practice squad to help simulate how offenses like Baltimore and Houston run. Belichick is always doing his due diligence, so chances are they were just doing their "homework" on Kaepernick and sent someone to the workout just to get a good look at him.

[JD Spydo]

I couldn't care less about the way Colin Kaepernick decided to protest but personally I have my doubts about his talent level. Even though he made it to a Superbowl with the 49ers, I never really thought he was all that good. Then after he was blackballed from the league, his talent level got wayyy overhyped. WAY OVERHYPED! I seriously doubt he's still a starter in this league but with guys like Mitchel Trubisky starting, Kaepernick might have a good chance...

I've heard reports of the Patriots expressing interest with the idea being that they could sign him to their practice squad to help simulate how offenses like Baltimore and Houston run. Belichick is always doing his due diligence, so chances are they were just doing their "homework" on Kaepernick and sent someone to the workout just to get a good look at him.

You may have an additional valid point. With him not playing a snap since 2016 coupled with the fact that it's so difficult to be an efficient QB in the NFL it might just be a waste of time and money to even try to play him again. If any one position on the team that has to be fully in snyc it would be the QB. Even with all the other baggage aside I'm now doubtful he could even be effective anymore. I think he took way too much time to get serious about re-starting his NFL career. And couple that with the "cat & mouse'" game he played yesterday with the media if I were an owner I wouldn't touch him with a 50 foot pole at this stage of the game.
Right now there are so many unheard of back up and rookie QBs that are showing promise without even risking any kind of a circus or potentially bringing locker room poison to your team.

[SF Native]

Kaepernick went to the Super Bowl in 2012. He didn’t even play that full season but was a replacement. After that there were 31 teams watching film to figure him out and his stats went down for the next 4 years. He can’t see the field. He is a one read and run guy. He can’t find the open receiver. He also has a great arm but can’t lighten up for short passes. So many times he would rocket that ball to a guy 8 yards away who can’t catch it. If he had been working on these skills for the last 3 years, he might be really good now. But he is not a good qb. Teams are right to pass on him and it has nothing to do with his politics or kneeling. Could be a good back up but I think he sees himself a starter and wants starter money, but that’s just speculation.

[SF Native]

Picks this week? Nope. It’s a weird week with a lot of teams around 0.500 playing each other.
Baltimore vs Houston looks like the best game to watch this week. Dolphins have a 2 game win streak, could they surprise buffalo? 49ers on a short week with a lot of injuries. Wouldn't be surprised if they lose this one. Arizona played them tough last time. Eagles are playing patriots and they have been so up and down. Step up eagles! Tampa has played better than their record suggests. Should be a good bucs vs saints game.