NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

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NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

Postby critter » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:20 pm

While we were successful in repealing New York’s Gravity Knife Ban in an effort to solve the problems with New York City’s unconstitutional enforcement scheme against possessors of common folding knives, we were unable to stop another irrational knife ban from being put in place. Governor Cuomo has signed S4202, a ban on manufacturing, shipment or possession of “undetectable” knives.

(NOTE: The bill passed with partisan majorities after five prior attempts where it passed the Assembly twice, but never previously got even a committee vote in the Senate. This year the Senate switched from Republican to Democratic control.)

The definition of an “undetectable knife” is: “any knife or other instrument, which does not utilize materials that are detectable by a metal detector…that is capable of ready use as a stabbing or cutting weapon and was commercially manufactured to be used as a weapon” (emphasis ours).

The possession restriction is subject to the proviso that the knife or instrument not be possessed “with the intent to use unlawfully against another.” This is a gray area in the law that is subject to abuse in some jurisdictions, particularity large cities. Please review our warning advising to never claim carry of a knife for self-defense in order to understand one part of this abuse issue. Note that even if you don’t make this claim, it doesn’t prevent law enforcement or prosecutors from charging you with the crime and it would be up to your lawyer to fight that. As such, we’d suggest you may want to consider if the risk is worth it to carry one of these “undetectable knives.” There is no such proviso limiting sale or shipping, they are banned all together.

The new law is unlikely to accomplish anything worthwhile, but rather will give law enforcement and prosecutors another way to harass what will almost always be innocent victims of another poorly conceived and unnecessary knife ban.

The crime will be a Class A misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and goes into effect on November 1, 2019. As with other NY Class A misdemeanors, it can, and likely would be, upgraded to a felony charge if there is a prior criminal conviction. Those in possession of these commonly available items may want to consider disposing of them by some means prior to that date if they desire to avoid any possibility of criminal liability.

While it will take court rulings to determine exactly what is meant by “commercially manufactured to be used as a weapon,” it is likely that anything that has been presented as such in any advertising or promotion by a company will almost certainly be included, as will likely any knife that is a copy of, or visually similar to, a knife that has ever been advertised or promoted as a weapon. So, daggers, for example, are likely to be included. Calling something a “letter opener” is unlikely to persuade a NY prosecutor or judge. Word to the wise…
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Re: NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

Postby Naperville » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:13 pm

Interesting.

I don't own any "undetectable" knives. I DO own rubber and flexible plastic trainers for martial arts! These fools are going to be jailing martial artists for no reason!!!

Get a hold of the dojos in NY and let them know. Spread the word by flier or mailing. This is an abomination.
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Re: NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

Postby critter » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 pm

Naperville wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:13 pm
Interesting.

I don't own any "undetectable" knives. I DO own rubber and flexible plastic trainers for martial arts! These fools are going to be jailing martial artists for no reason!!!

Get a hold of the dojos in NY and let them know. Spread the word by flier or mailing. This is an abomination.
Since they don't have an edge or a point, and thus can't be "read(ily) use(s) as a stabbing or cutting weapon," trainers wouldn't be subject to the law.

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Re: NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

Postby Naperville » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:08 pm

critter wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 pm
Naperville wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:13 pm
Interesting.

I don't own any "undetectable" knives. I DO own rubber and flexible plastic trainers for martial arts! These fools are going to be jailing martial artists for no reason!!!

Get a hold of the dojos in NY and let them know. Spread the word by flier or mailing. This is an abomination.
Since they don't have an edge or a point, and thus can't be "read(ily) use(s) as a stabbing or cutting weapon," trainers wouldn't be subject to the law.
I notified all of the top tier martial artists that I follow on Facebook. I do not know what they have in their bags...and I'll have to go through my own bag to see what I have, but I'm not traveling to NY.
Spyderco Collection: Military S110V, Bob Lum Darn Dao, Yojimbo 2 (ONE) S30V & (TWO) CF 20CV, Sustain, Native 5 Maxamet, Jumpmaster 2. SHORT LIST: CF Shaman in S90V; Province.

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Re: NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

Postby The Deacon » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:10 am

critter wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:20 pm
Since they don't have an edge or a point, and thus can't be "read(ily) use(s) as a stabbing or cutting weapon," trainers wouldn't be subject to the law.

Folks outside the Rotten Apple may be safe, but given NYC's "creative" interpretations of other knife laws, can you be sure those living there will be?
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Re: NY Giveth & NY Taketh – New NY Knife Ban Signed Into Law

Postby critter » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:06 am

Naperville wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:08 pm
I notified all of the top tier martial artists that I follow on Facebook. I do not know what they have in their bags...and I'll have to go through my own bag to see what I have, but I'm not traveling to NY.
The Deacon wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:10 am
Folks outside the Rotten Apple may be safe, but given NYC's "creative" interpretations of other knife laws, can you be sure those living there will be?
I suppose some degree of paranoia is both healthy and well-deserved given NY's history of animus towards weapons in general and knives in particular in the case of NYC. Having said that, it would be a real stretch to go after trainers and similar non sharpened, non-pointed objects and we don't expect that to be an issue. That's not only my opinion, but the opinion of those in the trenches fighting NY and NYC on these sorts of issues a daily basis. OTOH, it is NY and anything unreasonable is possible. They do that very well, unfortunately. In any case, absent actual arrests and prosecutions for trainers and the like, there's not much to be done at this point, IMHO. YMMV


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