Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

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SpyderEdgeForever
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Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:35 pm

Various places have laws regarding the legal length of the knife blade one carries. In some places, it is anything under 3 inches, elsewhere, 4 inches, and in some places, 5 or more. My question is this: When it comes to legalities, how technical and minute is the law? For example: If you are in a jurisdiction that says you can carry a knife with a blade four inches or below, and your knife happens to be 4.1 inches, would they actually measure the length and would the law be broken over a few more milimeters or fractions of an inch, or not?

Or if you are in a state that allows you to carry a five inch long blade and under, and your knife is five and a half inches, would that make a difference?

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby The Mastiff » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:59 pm

Or if you are in a state that allows you to carry a five inch long blade and under, and your knife is five and a half inches, would that make a difference?
Are you asking if violating the law would be a violation of the law or if the law enforcement would care?

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:05 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:59 pm
Or if you are in a state that allows you to carry a five inch long blade and under, and your knife is five and a half inches, would that make a difference?
Are you asking if violating the law would be a violation of the law or if the law enforcement would care?
The reason I am asking is out of curiousity as to how they determine whether or not a particular blade length is dangerous, and whether or not they use objective reasoning to determine it or if it is just an emotional 'fear based determination". I was thinking about a European who said in Europe they would actually take into account whether a blade was a single milimeter over the length limit of 3 inches. Would law enforcement in general actually measure it to determine if it is over the limit or not?

Also, isn't it time that society stopped banning edged tools when it makes no rational sense whatsoever to do so?


Here is another example for you: Someone made the claim that many municipalities decided on the no blades above four inch rule because, allegedly, it takes four inches of metal or material to reach the human heart. Now, how scientific is that? Think about this: There are many factors involved, ranging from the thickness of clothing a person is wearing, to the physical strength of the blade-wielder. Someone who is weaker or stronger will be able or less able to reach the heart of their target. It is best for societies to just throw out all bans on knives altogether, and instead enforce the laws against those who abuse them, regardless of the shape, design, size, or length of them.

Don't you agree?

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby murphjd25 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:11 pm

I think it would depend on what kind of mood the officer was in that day! But I’m not sure, I don’t chance it anymore. I keep everything 3.5” and under.
Josh

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby The Mastiff » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:19 pm

Don't you agree?
Way too much for me to answer or even agree with. I won't answer for European or any other police but will speak about myself when I was a police officer.

It depends.

However, if you break the law know you are at the mercy of a system that is not known for mercy or understanding. Good luck trying to get a bureaucracy to listen to you or care that you really aren't a bad guy who broke the law but only a good person who broke it. Now ask yourself if they should treat you any different if you are a really nice person.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Bloke » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:36 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:35 pm
Or if you are in a state that allows you to carry a five inch long blade and under, and your knife is five and a half inches, would that make a difference?
SEF, why not ask yourself; If the speed limit is 50 mph and you're travelling at 55 mph would that make a difference? ;)
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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby knivesandbooks » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:39 pm

After having small town Missouri police side eye and even hesitantly return a small traditional knife during a mistaken identity situation, I stopped taking chances(I matched the description of white make in a silver ford Taurus)((everything ended in an apology after an awful 3 hour interrogation)). If I had a pm2 or military on me, I'm sure there would have been some kind of charge.

That being said, I live in Oklahoma now and every knife is legal here so long as you're not using it to do illegal things (still could probably get murky). I don't worry so much now. I know and see so many police with expensive knives that they have to have some appreciation for cutlery, even if casual.

All I'm saying, if you carry something in public that you're not supposed to, be prepared for at least a ticket or confiscation. Always a possibility.
I own an assisted knife and am embarrassed to admit I enjoy it.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm

Thank you, Joe, Bloke, and others for your help on understanding this. Well, this helps me make my decision. I'm done with knives altogether. From here on out, if I need to cut something, I'm sticking to scissors, except for a basic kitchen knife. My reason: I am so tired and saddened by the constant attacks against knives and ridiculous bans on knives around the world, that I don't want anything to do with knives, folding or fixed, any more. Thank you all for the great discussions we have had over the years and all of the cool knife pictures and everything.

Ignore any post I made about looking forward to any newly-released knife. I'll go for something else, perhaps a brand new pair of quality-made scissors instead. At least scissors are a controversy-free tool.

G`day, friends.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby James Y » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:56 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm
Thank you, Joe, Bloke, and others for your help on understanding this. Well, this helps me make my decision. I'm done with knives altogether. From here on out, if I need to cut something, I'm sticking to scissors, except for a basic kitchen knife. My reason: I am so tired and saddened by the constant attacks against knives and ridiculous bans on knives around the world, that I don't want anything to do with knives, folding or fixed, any more. Thank you all for the great discussions we have had over the years and all of the cool knife pictures and everything.

Ignore any post I made about looking forward to any newly-released knife. I'll go for something else, perhaps a brand new pair of quality-made scissors instead. At least scissors are a controversy-free tool.

G`day, friends.
I hate to break it to you, but in some locations, even scissors would be restricted, especially if they are long and pointy enough. Places like sports venues, courthouses, etc.

Not really sure if you're being serious or if your post is merely venting some emotional steam. The fact is, not every person carries a knife, and not everyone accepts knife carry, or can accept it to the same degree. You, me and other knife people are NOT members of some persecuted minority group solely for liking/carrying knives. There are huge differences. For one, knife carry is a choice. And with it comes responsibilities. I don't necessarily agree with blade length restrictions, especially when the limits are particularly small (2.5") in certain locales. Unfortunately, sometimes the world isn't fair, but we still have to live in it. Not everybody wants or cares to carry a knife, or cares about knife history like many of us do. We must accept the fact that people are different and have different priorities and different interests. I have many interests that I'm certain most knife people here couldn't give a hoot about, but I don't care.

And TBH, there are some people who should NOT be carrying knives, such as certain reckless, immature people, and criminals. But there will be those, and unfortunately, their actions reflect poorly on all of us who like, carry and use knives for the right purposes. Thus the knee-jerk reactions many people and lawmakers ( and some cops) have to knives.

Jim

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Naperville » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:04 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm
Thank you, Joe, Bloke, and others for your help on understanding this. Well, this helps me make my decision. I'm done with knives altogether. From here on out, if I need to cut something, I'm sticking to scissors, except for a basic kitchen knife. My reason: I am so tired and saddened by the constant attacks against knives and ridiculous bans on knives around the world, that I don't want anything to do with knives, folding or fixed, any more. Thank you all for the great discussions we have had over the years and all of the cool knife pictures and everything.

Ignore any post I made about looking forward to any newly-released knife. I'll go for something else, perhaps a brand new pair of quality-made scissors instead. At least scissors are a controversy-free tool.

G`day, friends.
I too feel your pain. After carrying a knife for well over a decade I was shocked to find myself charged with ag assault just for DRAWING a knife, to defend myself against 4 to 5 guys trying to beat me senseless. As I've said before, depending on what jurisdiction you are in they will throw the book at you because they hate knives. As I also said in previous comments regarding this I drew the 2.5 inch pocket knife to my hip, and did not thrust / slash / or motion with it, and just said, "KNIFE!"

I live in Illinois, which is very liberal and on Facebook, where I chat with my martial arts friends (some living in Chicago) I tell them all of the time, get a FOID card and CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon License) and a handgun. YOU WILL HAVE A LICENSE TO KILL, and there have been dozens of people shot dead by CCW holders in Illinois, and they all got off scott free. DO NOT carry a knife! They do not like it when you defend yourself with a knife.

I think this is a question for Mr @Critter ... why in "2020" are knife users and people that defend themselves with a knife viewed so despicably and how did firearm owners get so liberated? The law takes a very liberal view to CCW holders. In Illinois, a CCW can also carry an automatic knife! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... what makes the CCW, a license to kill and everyone else has to leave their defensive weapons at home.

The 2nd Amendment protects all weapons of opportunity.
Spyderco Collection: Military S110V, Bob Lum Darn Dao, Yojimbo 2 (ONE) S30V & (TWO) CF 20CV, Sustain, Native 5 Maxamet, Jumpmaster 2. SHORT LIST: CF Shaman in S90V; Province.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Bloke » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:38 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm
I'm sticking to scissors
Image
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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Frozenspyder » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:53 pm

This might seem like a dumb question, but how do they measure blade length? Would all police measure the same way? Do they measure the edge length, to where the handle starts, or to the pivot on a folder? We don't have a length limit here so I've never worried about it, but now I'm curious.

And I hope all is well with SEF. He's been a major contributor to this forum.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby James Y » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:56 pm

Frozenspyder wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:53 pm
This might seem like a dumb question, but how do they measure blade length? Would all police measure the same way? Do they measure the edge length, to where the handle starts, or to the pivot on a folder? We don't have a length limit here so I've never worried about it, but now I'm curious.

And I hope all is well with SEF. He's been a major contributor to this forum.
I would always assume that a cop would measure the blade length down to the handle, and not just the edge length.

Jim

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Frozenspyder » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:59 pm

That makes sense. I guess if you're under the limit measuring to the handle, you're still good to go if one cop measures it differently. Thanks for the quick reply.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Bloke » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:07 pm

Frozenspyder wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:53 pm
This might seem like a dumb question, but how do they measure blade length? Would all police measure the same way? Do they measure the edge length, to where the handle starts, or to the pivot on a folder? We don't have a length limit here so I've never worried about it, but now I'm curious.

And I hope all is well with SEF. He's been a major contributor to this forum.
Hey Frozen, I very much doubt any coppers get around with verniers in there pocket which leads me to believe it will be subjective to the individual copper’s discretion. I suspect once you’ve been charged it will be up to the individual to prove the particular knife in question conforms to the particular law.

Either ways I’m tipping it would be a messy business. :eek:

Edited to add: I too hope our good friend SEF is well and back soon. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Frozenspyder » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:37 pm

That makes a lot of sense too. So, if going to a place with a length limit, it would probably be best, from a legal standpoint, not to carry something right at that limit.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby The Mastiff » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:48 pm

And I hope all is well with SEF. He's been a major contributor to this forum.
Indeed. I wasn't trying to break him. He's a good guy.

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Bloke » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:10 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:48 pm
Indeed. I wasn't trying to break him. He's a good guy.
I feel the same way Joe. :)

I gig him because I think he likes it and I’m sure he posts what he does and rolls around laughing at anyone trying to make sense of it.

He’s a colourful multifaceted character and I for one would miss him terribly if he were to leave.
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby The Mastiff » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:45 pm

He'll be back. This place grows on people and some go for a while but many come back. :)

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Re: Knife Law question regarding Blade Lengths.

Postby Frozenspyder » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 pm

I hope so. If not, maybe we can coax him back. We'd just have to convince Sal to make some really nice scissors.


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