Bad design choice?

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emanuel
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Bad design choice?

Postby emanuel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:43 am

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Am I the only one annoying about this design choice? Ignoring all the snag the raised plunge line causes next to the edge every time you try to do a long, flush cut, why waste that much edge length? Why not give it a clean grind closer to the handle? I've seen a lot of knives designed like this lately, and it annoys me, maybe more than it should. It feels like the maker is afraid to give the user a sharp point close to their fingers, so they prefer to baby them and make a less-than-optimal performer. Or maybe I'm just spoiled by Phil Wilson's bow river lol :o What do you guys think? Do you prefer a chunky guard or you like the grind to come flush all the way to the finger cut-out in the blade/handle?

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby The Deacon » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:22 am

You may not be the only one who prefers all edge blades, but I prefer having a guard.
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby Evil D » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:16 am

I like having the edge as far back as possible so long as it doesn't go into the guard, so not quite as far back as your line but it looks like a good quarter inch of wasted edge space there.
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby The Mastiff » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 am

I prefer a guard also. The above design is better when gripping it for fine detail cutting. I understand why it was done like that. Not everyone agrees obviously.

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emanuel
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby emanuel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:44 am

The Mastiff wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 am
I prefer a guard also. The above design is better when gripping it for fine detail cutting. I understand why it was done like that. Not everyone agrees obviously.
When doing fine work, particularly wood carving, the closer the edge is to my fingers the better the leverage and control, and I found that a flat guard can get in the way of that. The same thing when wanting to use the sharp point towards the handle, you have better control than being stuck with having to use the tip of the knife. But yes its mostly a personal preference I guess, both designs do their job in the end. Thanks for the replies.

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby Vivi » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:12 am

emanuel wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:44 am
The Mastiff wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 am
I prefer a guard also. The above design is better when gripping it for fine detail cutting. I understand why it was done like that. Not everyone agrees obviously.
When doing fine work, particularly wood carving, the closer the edge is to my fingers the better the leverage and control, and I found that a flat guard can get in the way of that. The same thing when wanting to use the sharp point towards the handle, you have better control than being stuck with having to use the tip of the knife. But yes its mostly a personal preference I guess, both designs do their job in the end. Thanks for the replies.
If the knife was sharpened as far back as your image shows, then you'd have to slide your hand back on the handle to keep your fingers from bumping into the wood you're carving.

I own and use knives of both styles. If you need tip control put your index finger on the spine and choke up on the handle. The only time I use the point on the heel is when starting a cut on avocados with my chef knife.

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby emanuel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:14 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:12 am

If the knife was sharpened as far back as your image shows, then you'd have to slide your hand back on the handle to keep your fingers from bumping into the wood you're carving.
I disagree here, that issue only occurs if the wood being cut has a large diameter and is round. In that case, guard or not, you're forced to cut with the middle of the blade.

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby Tims » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:13 pm

OP, what you have pictured there is exactly how I like ‘em. I’d hate to pull that plunge line back and lose any of that blade height.

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:40 pm

Looks a lot like my Large Pouter. It doesn't bother me at all.

Image
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby Vivi » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:42 pm

emanuel wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:14 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:12 am

If the knife was sharpened as far back as your image shows, then you'd have to slide your hand back on the handle to keep your fingers from bumping into the wood you're carving.
I disagree here, that issue only occurs if the wood being cut has a large diameter and is round. In that case, guard or not, you're forced to cut with the middle of the blade.
Not how it works with my hands. It's one of the reasons I EDC a Pacific Salt or Police vs something like a Native. If my thumb is resting on the spine over the first inch of cutting edge, I have to significantly modify how I cut to avoid bumping into it.

It's my big hang up with the Yojimbo / Ronin. When I try to slice cardboard with a Ronin I have to angle the knife awkwardly to avoid cutting my thumb open. Guess that's what I get for buying one for utility like a dolt.

Either way check out the ESEE HM series, you'd probably like them. Sharpened all the way back life a chef knife with a pointed heel. I love my 6HM.

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:49 pm

That BHK you posted is intended as a bushcraft/survival knife. Not sure if that is the Scout Platoon or Highlander? I have thought about getting a Highlander in the past but never did. They may have left a little guard for safety.

That blade shape is just based on old trade knives and has been done a bunch. The Platoon Leader, Highlander, Esee6HM and PLSK are sort of all the same knife. Take a look at the Esee 6HM, it is all edge. I have handled one and it was nice. It's on my wish list.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby Vivi » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:19 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:49 pm
That BHK you posted is intended as a bushcraft/survival knife. Not sure if that is the Scout Platoon or Highlander? I have thought about getting a Highlander in the past but never did. They may have left a little guard for safety.

That blade shape is just based on old trade knives and has been done a bunch. The Platoon Leader, Highlander, Esee6HM and PLSK are sort of all the same knife. Take a look at the Esee 6HM, it is all edge. I have handled one and it was nice. It's on my wish list.
The Bark River highlanders look so nice. I'm happy with my 6HM, especially after stripping the coating and dropping the edge angle, but I'd love to try a BRK someday. I had a micro canadian at one point but never did try a full sized design from them.

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby wrdwrght » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:27 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:40 pm
Looks a lot like my Large Pouter. It doesn't bother me at all.

Image
I like the Pouter but I already have LTWK’s saber-grind GNS which serves me well as a general camp knife.

Image

I wonder if the guard-edge relationship is what the OP seeks.
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby Doc Dan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:39 pm

I prefer a guard to keep my fingers safe, but still want an edge as far back as possible in front of the guard.
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emanuel
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby emanuel » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:33 am

Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:42 pm

Not how it works with my hands. It's one of the reasons I EDC a Pacific Salt or Police vs something like a Native. If my thumb is resting on the spine over the first inch of cutting edge, I have to significantly modify how I cut to avoid bumping into it.

Either way check out the ESEE HM series, you'd probably like them. Sharpened all the way back life a chef knife with a pointed heel. I love my 6HM.
Ah I understand now what you're saying Vivi, makes sense. I eyed the 4HM actually for awhile, but I kept buying other knives lol, and in the end I ended up making a very similar knife myself. Heat treated by Luong @BCMW, s110v full convex at about 65-66hrc, I love it. Cost me a bit to ship it back and forth from eastern Europe all the way to California, but it was worth it. It can carve and cut forever.

Edit. A pic:Image

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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby wrdwrght » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:19 am

Delete.
Last edited by wrdwrght on Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby wrdwrght » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:21 am

Now I see what the OP wants (and has). Looks good. I admire the tenacity that got this knife made.

But I don’t like hooking the heel of an edge on my work. I’d rather the work ride to my finger, as it will with my GNS (above), so I’ll feel the need to lighten up and gently pull back.

This hooking thing is why I avoid Spydies like the Smock, Leafstorm, and, for that matter, knives that hint of a sharpening notch, Slysz-designs excepted.

Of course, preferences have no correct answers.
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emanuel
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Re: Bad design choice?

Postby emanuel » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:59 am

I agree, this is not an ideal blade shape for EDC, particularly if you cut fibrous things who might slip towards the handle as you cut, since there's nothing to stop the material from falling off the cutting edge. This is one thing I like about most Spyderco designs: no sharpening notch that might get snags. In the end, no one design can have it all, if it did we wouldn't own 20 different knives lol :D Thanks for the replies!


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