Travel in ancient world

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Have you ever wondered about how various people would travel around in the ancient world? By ancient here I am classing this as Pre-1400s, back into the Medieval and Dark Ages and before, but especially in the times of the late Roman Empire and before, back into deep antiquity.

I have read that most "peasant" people never travelled more than fifty miles from the place of their birth, except under unique circumstances, and even that was stretching it. How realistic is that? And actually it is claimed that even until more recent times, such as the 1950s, that was the situation with even people in America and other areas. Though in Europe because you have different nations within reach by rail you can visit many different countries in a shorter time.

Here is a site with an article about travel among the ancient Romans:

https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifac ... ans-005189

For the more adventurous ideas, what do you think of the claims of severe ancient travel in the sense that there were Israelites, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Africans, Romans, Greeks, and others coming to the Americas before Columbus, and even vice versa?

There is evidence to show the Norsemen such as Vikings did make it to mainland North America before Columbus.

[James Y]

I believe that there is a lot more to history than is accepted in the mainstream history books, and that throughout history MANY cultures visited the Americas LONG before Columbus "discovered" it.

I do believe, though, that typical so-called "peasants" in general did not travel much at all, especially for leisure. Maybe not even 20 miles in a lifetime. It would depend on what they did for a living, of course. But most "peasants" lived fairly short, hardscrabble lives. For example, the stereotypical image of the Halloween witch/crone/old hag would have been the appearance of many 30-something European "peasant" women in the Dark Ages and Middle Ages. Nutrition for the peasant classes was not great during those periods. At all.

The same could be said of "peasants" in other countries like Japan and China. The majority simply didn't have the time or the means to travel long distances, and in many cases travel by citizens was restricted by the authorities. Especially in feudal Japan, which had a very rigid caste system.

Jim

[MichaelScott]

Mainstream history is the best rendering of past events that can be recovered by educated professionals. I suppose the other choice would be “alternative” history which would be whatever anyone cares to believe. There is a lot of that. Sells books to those who can’t manage actual academic researched histories.

The problem with these alternative histories is that they fall apart once their premises and beliefs are subject to objective and rigorous investigation. Giants built the pyramids which are ancient power sources. Aliens built landing strips in Peru. Neanderthals were stupid and a subhuman people. The earth is really flat. The list is endless.

Of course people believe what they want regardless. Did medieval people travel long distances? Yes. Did some never venture far from their village or town? Yes. Did European people come to America before Columbus? Yes, a few, now and then. Was there a pre-Columbian trade culture from Europe or Africa with the New World? There is no evidence for that, believe what you will.

[Naperville]

SEF what you said is totally believable with regard to people never having traveled 50 miles in their lifetime, and this still holds true to this day. I live in DuPage County, which is 35 to 40 miles away from Downtown Chicago, and I've run in to people that have never been to Downtown Chicago living in DuPage. If you think that's funny, there are people on the South Side of Chicago, that have never been to the North Side of Chicago, and it's just 10 to 15 miles away! Most could travel round trip for less than $10 using public transportation to the other side of Chicago, but they don't.

JamesY, I agree with you too. I am sure that the Vikings traveled to North America long before Columbus. To me, Columbus represents the beginning of the great migration to North America. On the Western shores, I am sure that Polynesian and Asian folks had been there a long time ago too. The Polynesians had catamarans capable of crossing oceans. Did they do it? Unknown but they were very capable sailors.

[z4vdBt]

Trade routes covered many miles and crossed multiple (new world) countries.

[JD Spydo]

I have no rock solid proof of what I'm about to say>> but when you consider things that had taken place in the ancient world it doesn't appear that any primitive form of travel makes any sense. Take the Nazca Lines in the Peruvian desert ( Peru, South America) you just almost have to conclude that the ancient world at one time had a form of air travel. Even if it was just something similar or equal to hot air balloons.

Also there was an archaeologist/explorer named Kincaid that discovered some ancient artifacts in a cave in the Grand Canyon of all places in the year 1909 and the Arizona Gazette still to this day stands by their story. Kincaid claimed that the artifacts he found were similar to that of ancient Egyptian artifacts which I still find weird beyond belief.

It's stuff like the two that I just mentioned that has me personally believing that the ancient peoples had other forms of travel other than what our school textbooks tell us about. Not to mention that the Egyptians by no means had any monopoly on pyramid construction because now they have found pyramid structures on all continents and here lately I've even heard claims that high tech equipment have revealed that there are also pyramids in the Antarctic Continent.

I can only speculate as to what all types of travel the ancients had achieved but I no longer believe in most conventional wisdom on the subject. Because truly nothing else makes any sense anymore>> at least to me anyway.

[MichaelScott]

JD, you have a strong curiosity about the unusual which I see as you having an active and intelligent mind. Good!

I did a bit of research on your points.

About the Nazca lines:

“Most lines run straight across the landscape, but there are also figurative designs of animals and plants, made up of lines. The individual figurative geoglyph designs measure between 0.4 and 1.1 km (.2 and .7 mi) across. The combined length of all the lines is over 1,300 km (808 mi), and the group cover an area of about 50 sq km (19 sq mi). The lines are typically 10 to 15 cm (4 to 6 in) deep. They were made by removing the top layer of reddish-brown iron oxide-coated pebbles to reveal a yellow-grey subsoil.[3][2] The width of the lines varies considerably, but over half are slightly over one-third meter (just over 1 foot) wide.[1][4] In some places they may be only a foot (30.5 cm) wide, and in others reach 6 feet (1.8 m) wide.[1]” - Wickipedia


Aerial photo of the Nazca lines.



About the Egyptian discoveries in the Grand Canyon:

“
"From: Smithsonian Information <Info@info.si.edu
To: <pmh@direct.ca
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: SIGHTINGS

"Peter Hay

"Your e-mail of January 11 has been received.

"The Smithsonian Institution has received many questions about an article in the April 5, 1909 Phoenix Gazette about G. E. Kincaid and his discovery of a 'great underground citadel' in the Grand Canyon, hewn by an ancient race 'of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt.' According to the article, Prof. Jordan directed a major investigation of the 'citadel' that was mounted by the Smithsonian.

"The Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology, has searched its files without finding any mention of a Professor Jordan, Kincaid, or a lost Egyptian civilization in Arizona. Nevertheless, the story continues to be repeated in books and articles.”



I found this about that pyramid in Antarctica: “The pyramidal mountain, which doesn't have a formal name, is one of the many peaks that make up Antarctica's Ellsworth Mountains, which were discovered by the American aviator Lincoln Ellsworth during a flight on Nov. 23, 1935, according to a 2007 research paper that was published by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).

More specifically, the unnamed mountain — located at 79°58’39.25"S 81°57’32.21"W — is in the southern part of the Ellsworth Mountains in an area called Heritage Range, which is known for its extraordinary fossils, including those of Cambrian-period trilobites from more than 500 million years ago, according to a 1972 USGS report.

However, the eastern ridge of the mountain is decidedly the black sheep of the family. Instead of descending downward like the other ridges, that fourth side extends east, rising toward even higher terrain, Pelto said.

"The erosion probably wasn't as uniform [on the eastern side]," he said.

Pelto added that although some news outlets are saying that the mountain is newly discovered, that's very unlikely to be the case. There's a research base for climate scientists to the south of the mountain in an area known as the Patriot Hills…

"You can actually probably see this mountain from up there in the Patriot Hills," Pelto said.

[JD Spydo]

Michael you could and just might be 1000% right about all of that. But the Nazca lines only make any sense at all to me because no one can really discern that they are even there unless you're up in the air as high as most private aircraft travels in height. I do believe that those lines were made to communicate or help navigate some sort of primitive air travel. But when push come to shove it's mostly speculation>> but again it just doesn't make any sense at all to me that they would carve those lines in the Peruvian Desert Floor unless they had a valid or even scientific reason to do so. But again I'm just speculating but I do believe deep in my gut that the ancients must have had some form of air travel>> even if it was hot air balloon simple. There are all kinds of unexplainable anomalies in that Nazca Line area in the Peurvian desert. And most people date those lines way back even before the time of Christ I heard a couple of people claim.

Now with Kincaid's alleged discoveries in the Grand Canyon I do find it rather interesting and intriguing and to some degree baffling that the US National Park Service has cordoned off and restricted that part of the Grand Canyon. I got that information from a friend of mine who has taken several excursions on the Colorado River and has hiked and explored many parts of the Canyon over the years. He actually lived in Flagstaff AZ for a long time. But he did go on to say that wasn't the only area of the Canyon that had government or National Park restrictions or made off limits to tourist and thrill seekers. Whatever the official reason was for that area to be "Off Limits" by the Park Service is interesting and has my curiosity.

But on the other hand you sure brought some interesting data to the table that I'm most definitely going to do some studying on later this evening on all that information you laid out for us. Thank you for your most interesting input>> I hope you're doing much better with you health battle and I'll keep you in my prayers>> JD

[MichaelScott]

Thanks, JD. It’s all interesting stuff.

I’m hanging in. What I have is not curable but it is manageable for some time. Just working on making that time longer and filled with quality.

[Doc Dan]

People did not travel as much in those days because travel was dangerous and it was expensive and time consuming. People had to make a living and farms do not operate on their own. The people that did travel were either military, envoys, merchants and their employees, or religious pilgrims. Take for example, the Magi who visited Jesus. It would have taken them a month or two of travel, over bandit rife roads, feeding horses, themselves, their servants, water problems, and all that at great expense. It was not cheap as it is today. Today, I can get a tank of gasoline and drive 200 miles and think nothing of it. Back then the cost was prohibitive in not only immediate money, but in lost revenue, time, loss of life and property, etc.

There were some great cultures that thrived on trade and raids, like the Phoenicians, Venetians, Dutch, and even the Vikings. But the normal people, the peasants worked their lives away only going a short distance from home, ever.

Even in the USA, if you notice, most towns are a certain distance apart. This was the distance a horse could travel and come back in a day.

[Naperville]

People did not travel as much in those days because travel was dangerous and it was expensive and time consuming. People had to make a living and farms do not operate on their own. The people that did travel were either military, envoys, merchants and their employees, or religious pilgrims. Take for example, the Magi who visited Jesus. It would have taken them a month or two of travel, over bandit rife roads, feeding horses, themselves, their servants, water problems, and all that at great expense. It was not cheap as it is today. Today, I can get a tank of gasoline and drive 200 miles and think nothing of it. Back then the cost was prohibitive in not only immediate money, but in lost revenue, time, loss of life and property, etc.

There were some great cultures that thrived on trade and raids, like the Phoenicians, Venetians, Dutch, and even the Vikings. But the normal people, the peasants worked their lives away only going a short distance from home, ever.

Even in the USA, if you notice, most towns are a certain distance apart. This was the distance a horse could travel and come back in a day.

Excellent points.

[Bloke]

I'm most definitely going to do some studying on

[bearrowland]