Time Travel Revisited: What kind of effects?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If cheap/inexpensive time travel were developed that actually allowed a human person to travel into the past and also into the future, what types of effects on human society/civilization would we most likely see?

I can imagine many anachronisms: Objects and things from one time being taken into another time, changing the "balance of time flow".

For example: While it would take major changes to enable earlier humans to be able to reproduce modern objects, what would happen if some group of modern people with time travel went to a place like ancient Rome or ancient China or ancient Europe or ancient America and gave the various people the knowledge to produce such things as stainless steel alloys, powerful explosives, firearms, and antiobiotics?

This ties in with the question: What effects would we see if people had developed what we call modern technologies, centuries earlier than what our time line reveals. Example: If the electronics and synthetic polymer and alloy steel industries had been achieved in the 1200s AD or the 400s AD instead of the 1940s, 1950s, and later?

Would that mean that if people survived, now, in the early 21st century, people would be that much more advanced ?

By inexpensive time travel, a couple of examples would be:

1 A time-travel watch device that allows the wearer and a few others to travel physically to any year in the past or future they want to, with small amount of cargo.

2 Some form of enclosed time travel vehicle that allows the same thing as above.

[flasharry]

Interesting article:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... rent-phys/

[Extra330SC]

If cheap/inexpensive time travel were developed that actually allowed a human person to travel into the past and also into the future, what types of effects on human society/civilization would we most likely see?

Not possible with even "tomorrows " physics for human beings on a large scale! Even though time dilation is real (equations correct GPS systems for time difference between satellites and earth based receivers) Generali re
Relativity states that an object at the speed of light would have infinite mass and a length of 0...not going to happen. It's fun to watch in movies and TV shows though!

James

[MichaelScott]

Chaos

[Evil D]

Einstein said if time travel is ever possible he believed you could move forward faster in time than those around you but never back in time to the past. You can't undo what has already done.

[spyderg]

My understanding is that time travel forward and back is theoretically possible. First forward, is “easily” already achievable. The faster you move, the slower time moves or something like that. They’ve synced atomic clocks, sent one into fast orbit. When it returns they compare the clocks and the one from orbit experienced a slower passage of time so technically it travelled into the future. I’m only a couple sips into my morning coffee so sorry if I’m not clear enough or forgetting something, lol! Second I’ve read that scientists believe time travel into the past would be possible if we could harness enough energy which we can’t yet, but the catch is we could only go as far back as when the first time machine is created. So no 1950’s but if say tomorrow they figured it out, visitors from the distant future could show up to wish us a happy Easter.

[James Y]

I don't see any benefits of going back in time to Ancient Rome or China and teaching them about modern alloys, even if it were possible. The best that could happen would be you'd simply create an alternate timeline. Because what has already happened has already happened, regardless.

We are all constantly 'time traveling'. For example, the moment I started typing this is already in the past. Going back further, pick any arbitrary time. I'll say the 1970s. That's already gone (to our perception) and in another dimension of reality to these current times. There is a saying that beyond linear 3D perception, time is an illusion and everything exists at all times simultaneously, but in different frequencies/wavelengths. I do believe this. But to time travel, like as a tourist or even a scientist? I don't know about that.

I have heard instances where individuals have accidentally crossed over into some sort of 'doorway' or 'time warp' and been somehow temporarily transported to the past. I've also heard of an account (at the famous Loch Ness, no less) of a couple who had vanished while walking on the shores of the lake in the 1700s; and in the 1800s, it was reported that a strange couple entered a pub in the area dressed like people from the previous century, seemingly confused about where they were. The couple then left the pub and were never seen again. Could that have been the same couple? Who knows.

Do I believe that there are certain areas where the veils between dimensions and timelines are thin, and where, under certain conditions, a 'doorway' may temporarily open and someone may accidentally cross through? I do. But I believe such things would be some sort of natural phenomenon that occurs at random. I also believe it's possible that SOME people who might cross over through such a doorway may not be able to cross back.

Another possibility of seeing into the distant past is something like remote viewing, though admittedly I know very little about that. And in some cases, a legitimate psychic might be able to access that. Neither of which involves actually physically going to the past.

Right now, we can all 'see into the past' whenever we look at a photo, video or films. When you see footage, you're already looking into the past.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you for the great answers and please keep them coming. This is a very interesting topic.

Regarding people who claim to have travelled to other planes of existence and also times, I once read a collection of alleged (not printed as fiction, in other words) claims of such things. One man claimed he (at the time he lived in the 1960s or 1970s UK) was on some long hike and went through a time portal and it took him back in time to the 1920s and he met a woman who he fell in love with but he soon returned to the "modern" UK and when he looked her up he found she had died. There were stranger accounts more along the lines of paranormal, such as people giving alleged eye-witnessed accounts to seeing marching armies of ghostly Roman soldiers and things out of time.

I think David brought up a great point about the past having already happened. But the energy issue is fascinating. IF we could somehow harness a very powerful and concentrated/dense source of energy, like controlled black hole radiation or something, it makes you wonder what would be feasible.

[The Deacon]

The way I see it, going back in time would imply that the present is mutable, since even the slightest change to what has already happened could result in profound changes to the present. Think of it this way, if your father had climaxed a fraction of a second sooner or later and a different sperm had won the race to the egg, there may (or may not) still be a human being with your name, but it would not be you. The same held true for both your parents, all four of your grandparents, all eight of your great grandparents, and so on. One small change anywhere down that line could mean you'd have never been born.

On the other side, traveling forward in time would imply that the future already exists, writ in stone, and that free will is only an illusion.

[Extra330SC]

On the other side, traveling forward in time would imply that the future already exists, writ in stone, and that free will is only an illusion.

That we live in a "simulation " is more plausible then time travel...many times over! But that's another topic entirely!

James

[demoncase]

Time Travel is a classic trope of Sci-fi because it's always good fun- with lots of good and bad outcomes to get your teeth into
Plus you get to re-use the costumes from the last Julius Caesar play Wardrobe had gathering dust

My thinking is that if anyone could cheat entropy and the laws of thermodynamics- thus going back in time, you immediately drop into a universe that is now on a divergent path to the one you left.

Managing to cheat the flow of entropy is going to take enough energy to punch a hole in the skein of space-time.... Unless you have a tame and to-hand black hole or supernova, then I can't picture that amount of energy being cheap......Since all and any economic units we consider (be it dollars, gold or sea-shells) are essentially units-of-energy-purchase.

Just by adding the atoms from one slightly chunky Midlander with a goatee in an Iron Maiden T-shirt and cargo shorts (eg- Me!) to the universe in the past, you change that universe in myriad irreparable ways. You create a parallel universe- one heading off in a slightly different direction.
That's before I start talking to anyone about anti-biotics or stainless steel

The bigger the change you make, the more likely the future you go back to will look nothing like the present you left.
That's assuming you manage to pick just right and don't get burned as a witch/ shot as a spy/ locked in a lunatic asylum (Delete as period appropriate)

This is the way I tend answer the perennial "What would you say to 18 year old you?"
My answer is always "Nothing- because any change I ask him to make will mean I don't end up here...Even knowing that there's a 40 year old me to talk to 18 year old me might be enough to change things."

Think "Butterfly Effect" or "Predestination" for movies that grab the concept for me.
Plenty of stories- but obviously "Night Watch" by Terry Pratchett is always going to place first for me (RIP STP GNU )

[James Y]

On the other side, traveling forward in time would imply that the future already exists, writ in stone, and that free will is only an illusion.

Unless, of course, there are countless future possibilities (and possible futures). Such as, when you came to that fork in the road (literally or figuratively), and decided to go the left way, your future then moves along a certain path from there; but perhaps in another possibility (reality?) you chose to go right, which then created a different alternate path/timeline, which cannot be perceived from this timeline. Much like different radio stations/frequencies. We are constantly making decisions, great and small, that moves us, and our existence around us, that affects the world in various ways.

Jim

[Naperville]

What does "Hidden Content (for members only)" mean? Do I have to be a time traveler to see it?

[Naperville]

If I could travel fwd in time, I'd buy a Wall Street Journal from 25, 50y or 100rs from now and come back and invest in those companies as much as I could.

[James Y]

What does "Hidden Content (for members only)" mean? Do I have to be a time traveler to see it?

I have no idea why that was there. I went back and edited/deleted it out.

Jim

[Extra330SC]

Do I have to be a time traveler to see it?

:D

[Naperville]

What does "Hidden Content (for members only)" mean? Do I have to be a time traveler to see it?

I have no idea why that was there. I went back and edited/deleted it out.

Jim

Hahahahaha... you should have left it in and told us you belong to a special Spyderco group! :cool:

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If I could travel fwd in time, I'd buy a Wall Street Journal from 25, 50y or 100rs from now and come back and invest in those companies as much as I could.

This brings up one of the issues I was hoping someone would mention in this:

What would some of the economic and resource and technology effects of time travel be?

If you could freely travel to the past and future, here are two scenarios you would be able to perform:

1 You could travel 100 or 200 years ahead "up time" and take advantage of the new advances in medicine and other areas, and completely retrofit your body to either include cybernetic implants and organs that are very durable and resilient, or, other things. You could also outfit yourself with the latest armor, weapons, and defensive items.

2 You could travel into the past and do as you said above: Invest in companies that you have the advantage of knowing will reap large benefits.
Would it also be possible to purchase large pieces of land in the past and make sure the title deeds stay in your name so that you can return to the future and make use of it?

For example: Could you travel back to, say, 1819 California and purchase ten blocks of San Francisco or Los Angeles, have the deed recorded in your family name, and then travel back to 2019 and find that you own those city blocks, now worth millions or billions? Or would there be some catch to doing that?

I would imagine that once time travel became available there would be some form of time patrol who may try to keep the time stream as smooth as possible because there would be dangerous ideaologues and others who would try to interfere with and change history if that is possible.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Time Travel is a classic trope of Sci-fi because it's always good fun- with lots of good and bad outcomes to get your teeth into
Plus you get to re-use the costumes from the last Julius Caesar play Wardrobe had gathering dust

My thinking is that if anyone could cheat entropy and the laws of thermodynamics- thus going back in time, you immediately drop into a universe that is now on a divergent path to the one you left.

Managing to cheat the flow of entropy is going to take enough energy to punch a hole in the skein of space-time.... Unless you have a tame and to-hand black hole or supernova, then I can't picture that amount of energy being cheap......Since all and any economic units we consider (be it dollars, gold or sea-shells) are essentially units-of-energy-purchase.

Just by adding the atoms from one slightly chunky Midlander with a goatee in an Iron Maiden T-shirt and cargo shorts (eg- Me!) to the universe in the past, you change that universe in myriad irreparable ways. You create a parallel universe- one heading off in a slightly different direction.
That's before I start talking to anyone about anti-biotics or stainless steel

The bigger the change you make, the more likely the future you go back to will look nothing like the present you left.
That's assuming you manage to pick just right and don't get burned as a witch/ shot as a spy/ locked in a lunatic asylum (Delete as period appropriate)

This is the way I tend answer the perennial "What would you say to 18 year old you?"
My answer is always "Nothing- because any change I ask him to make will mean I don't end up here...Even knowing that there's a 40 year old me to talk to 18 year old me might be enough to change things."

Think "Butterfly Effect" or "Predestination" for movies that grab the concept for me.
Plenty of stories- but obviously "Night Watch" by Terry Pratchett is always going to place first for me (RIP STP GNU )

This is very heavy and fascinating, thank you!

One important point you mention is that by the mere act of carrying one's energy and matter back in time, not even considering any information or personal interactions you have with people in the past, could potentially alter the future and change things beyond our ability to pre-determine what effect it would have. In a crude sense, would the following be an example of this idea?:

A man travels to 1119 AD London. He walks down a road, and happens to see a substantially-sized wooden log in the way of the road. Deciding to be helpful, he takes out his trusty personal phaser pistol that he picked up in the year 2219 and proceeds to disintegrate that pesky log, thus getting it out of the way of himself, and everyone else. Our time traveller hangs around a bit, and travels back home to the year 2519 AD.

What he did not think about, is that that wooden log was originally in the "right place and right time" or wrong place and wrong time, looked at another way, and, in the original time line, a man was riding a horse down that same road, and his horse struck that wooden log, and the rider proceeded to fall off the horse, break his neck, and die.

However, in the new time line, the log is gone, so the horse-rider does not fall off the horse, and he lives. The problem: He marries and has children, and one of his descendants in the future, through various circumstances, becomes one of the world's most vile and vicious global dictators and starts a world wide war, leading to the deaths of millions of people. And all of that could have been prevented had our time traveller not disintegrated the log.

[Naperville]

This brings up one of the issues I was hoping someone would mention in this:

What would some of the economic and resource and technology effects of time travel be?

If you could freely travel to the past and future, here are two scenarios you would be able to perform:

1 You could travel 100 or 200 years ahead "up time" and take advantage of the new advances in medicine and other areas, and completely retrofit your body to either include cybernetic implants and organs that are very durable and resilient, or, other things. You could also outfit yourself with the latest armor, weapons, and defensive items.

2 You could travel into the past and do as you said above: Invest in companies that you have the advantage of knowing will reap large benefits.
Would it also be possible to purchase large pieces of land in the past and make sure the title deeds stay in your name so that you can return to the future and make use of it?

For example: Could you travel back to, say, 1819 California and purchase ten blocks of San Francisco or Los Angeles, have the deed recorded in your family name, and then travel back to 2019 and find that you own those city blocks, now worth millions or billions? Or would there be some catch to doing that?

I would imagine that once time travel became available there would be some form of time patrol who may try to keep the time stream as smooth as possible because there would be dangerous ideologues and others who would try to interfere with and change history if that is possible.

You are right, I'd be looking out for the health of my body and mind. Boy this conversation got serious.... I had a 3-way bypass and a new heart valve put in - in late 2017. I'd do almost anything to live until I'm 100 (probably unlikely given my circumstances) or even 200 if I could have a healthy body/mind, and not be homeless. I fear all three going "wrong" on me at some point. If you live to be old, you may become feeble, and not be able fend for yourself economically or physically. Solving for the problems of ageing and wearing out our bodies will be really something to behold in 50 to 100 yrs.

I track health related issues, and I have hundreds of bookmarks, all divided in to subject areas. If I read something that may effect me I bookmark it.