Survival Vehicles?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

For those interested, when it comes to vehicles of all types and sizes, from personal human-powered bikes and off-road all terrain vehicles, on up to armored trucks and even unarmored vehicles, what are some types and models that you personally would find worthy for survival and apocalyptic scenarios, that are durable, reasonably easy to maintain without alot of infrastructure, and with related features?

Here are some articles I found on this:

https://thepreppingguide.com/bug-out-vehicles/

http://survival-mastery.com/reviews/sur ... hicle.html

I think one of the core issues would be power: If you could somehow have an engine that can run on a wide-range of materials, such as something able to burn vegetable oils and materials found in nature, you would be alot better off than one which required specialized gasoline.

[Crux]

Then there's this one.

[bearfacedkiller]

A good pair of boots and a good pair of snowshoes. If the poo hits the fan I am hitting the woods where I have the best chances.

I highly doubt there will ever be any sort of mad max scenario.

[demoncase]

I think one of the core issues would be power: If you could somehow have an engine that can run on a wide-range of materials, such as something able to burn vegetable oils and materials found in nature, you would be alot better off than one which required specialized gasoline.

Like pretty much every diesel engine already can, then?

[JD Spydo]

The problem I've got with motorized vehicles in a survival situation is that "fuel" would quickly become a big problem unless you have a storage facility of your own. I guess if you're on a farm and have a huge tank of diesel ( which lasts a lot longer than gasoline) you might have some advantages.

I lived through two fake fuel shortages during the 70s and even with a pocket full of cash it was sometimes hard to get your fuel ( 73 & 77). I was saying to my friends even back then that if we were in a nuclear war or a really horrific earthquake similar to the first New Madrid quake of the 1800s I firmly doubt if a vehicle would do you much good for very long.

I'm very interested to know if any of you guys have a way around that. But other than a farm which would be heavily guarded ( day & night) the fuel would be a looming problem and you would have a virtual army of looters wanting your fuel, food, ammo and other commodities. A real survival situation would be quite grim in this fragmented society we are currently living in... GOD Help US

[Naperville]

We are as a civilization going to eventually be in a SHTF moment. But will anyone on this forum be alive when it happens?

I don't believe in invasions to US mainland, or Civil War 2.0. The US could go broke! That is a likelihood.

If anything ever did happen, I plan to "bug-in" not "bug-out." There is no way to bring everything with you that you need to survive.

EMP is a 100% reality too, either through the Sun via a solar flare, or WW III via a nuclear device. The US Govt has been studying EMP disasters since 2000 pretty regularly.

March 26, 2019
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ic-pulses/

You can use Google to find the documents below. They were research on the people of the US surviving an EMP. Bad news is 80% or more die in an EMP from the elements, lack of clean water or starvation.

- (HAVE) Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack. 2004 and 2008 US Congressional Report

- (HAVE) Nuclear EMP Attack Scenarios and Combined-Arms Cyber Warfare: Report to the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack. By Dr Peter Vincent Pry, July 2017.

- (HAVE) THE EMP THREAT: THE STATE OF PREPAREDNESS AGAINST THE THREAT OF AN ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE (EMP) EVENT. JOINT HEARING, BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE INTERIOR OF THE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS, FIRST SESSION, MAY 13, 2015, Serial No. 114–42

- (HAVE) NIAC, The President's National Infrastructure Advisory Council. Surviving a Catastrophic Power Outage. December, 2018.

- (HAVE) Electromagnetic Defense Task Force, 2018 Report. Lemay Center For Doctrine. Lemay Paper No. 2.
November 2018.

- (HAVE) WHITE HOUSE: Executive Order on Coordinating National Resilience to Electromagnetic Pulses. March 26, 2019

[JD Spydo]

Those are some most interesting observations you made Naperville :) And believe me I'm not trying to invalidate what you've put out there for us to consider. Now I do have some fundamental disagreements on some issues. Because when it all comes out in the wash so to speak we could both be wrong. Historically I've not got a great track record predicting the future. Because if I did my playground would be confined to the stock market :D

But I was meeting with a survival group all the way back to the mid 90s in the aftermath of the Waco tradgedy and I thought for sure that something was going to erupt in a bad way at that time ( like a civil war for instance ) >> but I was wrong with my call on that one and I'm very thankful I was wrong. But I do believe that many of us will be alive if and when a societal breakdown or economic upheaval occurs in the near future and if it does "GOD HELP US" Because there were signs of it after Trump won the election I do think we came dangerously close to riots in the streets in many US cities especially on the day of the inauguration. Now before you and others think that can't happen in the USA I'm here to inform many of you that it already has. I was just a 14 year old kid when Dr. Martin Luther King was assassinated in April of 1968 and our town of Kansas City, Mo ( and the Kansas side too) went into a complete riot mode and it came close to a total bloodbath so please don't deceive yourself into thinking it can't happen because it has already and that one scared a lot of us who lived through it. And I believe it was close to 30 major cities that went into riot mode after Dr. King's assassination unfortunately. My dad who worked for the government then had to be escorted by the National Guard to get back and forth to work for 10 straight days. Believe me it was a powderkeg ready to blow at any time and our entire family was really nerve-wrecked with the whole ordeal. Thankfully they got it under control and it didn't escalate any further than it did.

Your observation of a possible economic meltdown, stock market crash, or any other social meltdown is much more possible than most of us realize. And in this time of electronic transfers and high speed stock & bond trading it could happen really fast with little warning. And with the left wing people hating the right wing people to the ferocity that they have done in the past two years frankly scares me a lot. We've even had some of that here in KC, MO USA and in a few cases it almost got out of hand at rallies and meetings in the past two years. Oh yes a Civil war of sorts is very possible and I hope to GOD that the current government can keep it in check. Now your observation of a possible EMP attack is very valid and most Americans have ignored it and the mainstream media wishes it would all go away. But it is a vivid possibility and it's a subject that many of the ex-military members of my family talk about quite often. And EMP attack would cause far more casualties than most of us want to think.

This thread is about the use or viability of a motorized vehicle during a survival situation and I maintain my stance that "FUEL" would be a major problem. Your idea of "bugging in" versus bugging out might just have more merit to it than most people realize. But you want to learn the art of becoming a "gray man" and not drawing attention to yourself it can create a huge advantage for you and yours. Because gangs of thugs will be looking for the vulnerable and weak. And the gangs will be looking for preppers and survivalists or anyone else who stocked up on food and supplies and trying to figure how to get all the stuff they hoarded for bad times>> and I don't believe they would stop at anything short of armed action. It amazes me how many preppers I've chatted with at meetings of survivalists who don't even consider the importance of owning firearms and other weapons. I hear a lot of "Polyanna" type stuff like "GOD will Protect me". No disrespect at all toward GOD because I'm a firm believer in the Almighty myself. But GOD gives us a brain to use for our own self defense. But I can tell you that a societal breakdown, or a civil war might be more of a possibility than most of us want to believe.

But Brother you did have some good observations for sure and brought stuff to the table we really need to give a lot of thought to.

[The Mastiff]

The idea of EMP has some truth but the idea of it being so bad that it destroys the countries infrastructure leaving all of us to starve has been discounted by experts in the field of nuclear weapon effects that I know and trust. To get the sort of effect people read about in these thrillers would take much more weapons than claimed. It is a nuclear attack on another country and would be responded to with retaliatory nuclear strikes. Not a real pleasant thought to those sane people around the world. The idea that one weapon in the middle of the country at altitude spreading that kind of destruction is laughable. Incidentally the whole concept of nuclear winter was discredited also That was used as a threat of the end of the world type stuff back in the day by the ban the nukes types who had more heart than truth and knowledge in them. Supposedly it would have taken much more than the 70 thousand warheads that were around back in the late 70's and early 80's.

It's bad stuff but not as bad as made out to be. As usual the earth can out do any nuclear war with just one super volcano climate wise anyways. I am glad we are looking to making some preparations on a government level though. We always should have just as we never should have stopped the Civil defense stuff the government used to do back in the 60's. Our potential opponents never stopped preparing on a nationwide level. The thought that it was useless to prepare or would be destabilizing has always been imbecilic and only weakened our position including with an eye for those natural disasters that do show up periodically and can't be wished or science-d away.

The biggest threat of EMP type attacks comes from those that assume the end of the world is coming and start running in mass from cities and looting and pillaging along the way. By the way I'm a fan of bugging in when possible. It isn't always possible though. Bugging out by car scares me. I have seen surprise snow of 2-3 inches completely gridlock a city where a 3 mile drive only took 6 to 8 hours and people were actually running out of fuel in the cars and walking making the traffic jam that much worse.

Joe

[Crux]

All of this is really good information. I want to thank those that have commented.

[Doc Dan]

It is pretty easy to make fuel out of corn, vegetation, or anything, that can be burned in a properly tuned engine. The problem would not be fuel. The problem would be parts for the vehicle over time.

[Bloke]

"fuel" would quickly become a big problem

The problem would not be fuel.

[Extra330SC]

For those interested, when it comes to vehicles of all types and sizes, from personal human-powered bikes and off-road all terrain vehicles, on up to armored trucks and even unarmored vehicles, what are some types and models that you personally would find worthy for survival and apocalyptic scenarios, that are durable, reasonably easy to maintain without alot of infrastructure, and with related features?

Here are some articles I found on this:

https://thepreppingguide.com/bug-out-vehicles/

http://survival-mastery.com/reviews/sur ... hicle.html

I think one of the core issues would be power: If you could somehow have an engine that can run on a wide-range of materials, such as something able to burn vegetable oils and materials found in nature, you would be alot better off than one which required specialized gasoline.

There's good points /info on potential survival scenarios and our ability to deal with them. They're so many variables to consider and potential outcomes IN ANY one them. IMHO unless your very wealthy and have sophisticated bunkers/survival shelters(many Uber rich do) or Live somewhere isolated off the grid with the the ability to support yourself for long intervals...your really screwed if the SHTF in the long term!

On a lighter note and responding directly to SEF reference to off road vehicles. ..my family has been involved with off road buggy and motocross use /racing for years. We spend a lot of time in the mountains and desert as a family using high powered machines.

Our LS1 powered custom prerunner (20 inches travel front and rear) with Mendeola transaxle will absolutely gobble up rough terrain and good luck catching it off road...even on a bike with a good rider. That is until it runs out of gas.... :cool:
Here's a nut driving a similar buggy (with Volkswagen bodywork ) on the streets of San Diego. ..he got in trouble for this stunt :eek:
https://youtu.be/70OSJLzISL0

James

And yes...I'm a Yamaha fanatic!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Wow James those videos and pictures off roadsters are so very cool! Thank you :)

A friend of mine told me that these are among his favorite vehicles because they are so flexible when it comes to a wide range of enviroments, and you can have a canopy/covering for rain and bad weather, and, remove the canopy/covering when its warm and breezy out.

I have a question about those: How stable are they as far as center of gravity goes and resistance to flipping over?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I think one of the core issues would be power: If you could somehow have an engine that can run on a wide-range of materials, such as something able to burn vegetable oils and materials found in nature, you would be alot better off than one which required specialized gasoline.

Like pretty much every diesel engine already can, then?

Yes. This, infact, leads to a sub-question I have: Pound for pound when it comes to general utility and usefulness, would you say diesel engines are better for people to use than more restrictive gasoline engines or not? This gets a bit off into the "fringe conspiracy world" of things but I once spoke with a man who was into alternative energy technologies and he made the claim that the establishment put a damper for the most part on diesel engines because they can run on a wide range of fuel, and while they obviously are produced and used, the main advertising focus, according to this person, is put on the gasoline engines because they want to sell you more gasoline than diesel. What do you say to his claim?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

The idea of EMP has some truth but the idea of it being so bad that it destroys the countries infrastructure leaving all of us to starve has been discounted by experts in the field of nuclear weapon effects that I know and trust. To get the sort of effect people read about in these thrillers would take much more weapons than claimed. It is a nuclear attack on another country and would be responded to with retaliatory nuclear strikes. Not a real pleasant thought to those sane people around the world. The idea that one weapon in the middle of the country at altitude spreading that kind of destruction is laughable. Incidentally the whole concept of nuclear winter was discredited also That was used as a threat of the end of the world type stuff back in the day by the ban the nukes types who had more heart than truth and knowledge in them. Supposedly it would have taken much more than the 70 thousand warheads that were around back in the late 70's and early 80's.

It's bad stuff but not as bad as made out to be. As usual the earth can out do any nuclear war with just one super volcano climate wise anyways. I am glad we are looking to making some preparations on a government level though. We always should have just as we never should have stopped the Civil defense stuff the government used to do back in the 60's. Our potential opponents never stopped preparing on a nationwide level. The thought that it was useless to prepare or would be destabilizing has always been imbecilic and only weakened our position including with an eye for those natural disasters that do show up periodically and can't be wished or science-d away.

The biggest threat of EMP type attacks comes from those that assume the end of the world is coming and start running in mass from cities and looting and pillaging along the way. By the way I'm a fan of bugging in when possible. It isn't always possible though. Bugging out by car scares me. I have seen surprise snow of 2-3 inches completely gridlock a city where a 3 mile drive only took 6 to 8 hours and people were actually running out of fuel in the cars and walking making the traffic jam that much worse.

Joe

How difficult would it be for civilian folks to somehow harden or armor their sensitive electronics and household devices from an EMP? Is that doable?

Regarding the bug out exit strategies, do you think this is true? I have heard it said that in the event of a true serious disaster, where masses of people had to flee modern urban areas, the bridges, tunnels, and roads would be so overwhelmed and so stopped up with fleeing people, that as you pointed out above, severe chaos would ensue.

[Extra330SC]

Wow James those videos and pictures off roadsters are so very cool! Thank you :)

A friend of mine told me that these are among his favorite vehicles because they are so flexible when it comes to a wide range of enviroments, and you can have a canopy/covering for rain and bad weather, and, remove the canopy/covering when its warm and breezy out.

I have a question about those: How stable are they as far as center of gravity goes and resistance to flipping over?

These are on the upper end of most buggy, Trucks , or Prerunners for personal /casual use. Most desert buggies have Volkswagen air cooled engines and solid "beam" front ends with limited travel. They're still very capable. ..but very limited in HP, Speed , and overall performance. Most of the upper end vehicles have complete hand fabricated modular bodies (aluminum or fiberglass ) so yes you can take the roof off or pull the windshield if you want!

Heated seats, Hi power VHF /intercom radios with aircraft quality headsets, Power steering, Sweet removable steering wheel (like Nascar ) 5 point safety harnesses, CAD designed chassis, Full off road GPS with 5000 song capacity (through headsets) ,and Lights designed for vibration that are 10 times as bright as a normal car...are just some of the features they have. Even the tires (BFG Project racing tires) are specially made with hi tech materials to withstand side punctures and high speeds through vicious terrain.

Because of the amount of travel and the way the bypass suspension system is tuned for HUGE hits (5ft deep whoops or huge drop offs) these vehicles are not designed for pavement use. There's a large amount of body roll on hard surfaces(you can see the buggy hunting in that San Diego video) that makes driving fast challenging. ...not their intended purpose! But off road , These pre runners and trucks can take more then you would believe and can withstand tremendous abuse at speeds approaching 130mph.

James

Here is a video link of a family member driving a trophy truck (fastest class) in the San Felipe 250....that's 36 inches of travel and a 383 stroker with 750 HP.
https://youtu.be/hPjDgwPJLhY

[JD Spydo]

Not at all trying to be argumentative with Mastiff or anyone else, great guys all the way. But I do disagree that an EMP attack would not be a problem>> I firmly believe that an EMP attack has the potential of being far worse than many of us realize. I've talked to 3 ex-military guys about it in the past two years collectively >> these 3 guys I've gotten to know really good as well as some ex-military in my own family and the consensus is that an EMP attack could totally destroy our communications grid ( cell phones & land lines as well as our precious internet). With that being said I was also talking to a former fellow worker of mine not too long ago who still works for Kansas City Power & Light ( an electric utility that supplies a huge portion of the KC metro area). He told me that the security and preventative protection for the grid is not what it should be and that we would be extremely vulnerable to a EMP attack.

And no I'm not an expert in that field but these guys I've talked to about it all have some extent of expertise on the subject and they are all worried about possible outcomes. Granted it is the communication grid they are mainly worried about but when you think about it just look at how totally reliant and addicted we are to our cell phones, internet and the grid in general. Just look at how business is virtually totally reliant on the communications grid as well as our complex banking system. I'm not saying that it would be irreparable but I do think it could cause some major problems for the immediate period following an attack ( this is if it ever happens).

I would like to think that our intelligence community and military do have some safeguards in place but after 9-11 I'm not exactly very confident of that anymore>> I hope I'm wrong and I hope they have remedied some of their past problems. Not at all trying to be a fear monger but it is something of grave concern and it is something we all should be prepared for in the event that some enemy or rogue nation could pull it off.

And speaking in the context of a "Survival Vehicle" most of your cars,trucks & buses made in the past 20 years or so have electronic ignition which is extremely vulnerable to an EMP attack. Therefore to consider such a vehicle you might just try to find an older car or truck with the older breaker-point type of ignition systems.

[James Y]

It can sometimes be fun to speculate on how a SHTF scenario might happen, and what we might do. But there is a book written by Selco Begovic, a survivor of the 1990s Balkan war, who writes about what REALLY happened to him in a very real SHTF situation, which lasted for a year. During that year, there was no law and no government help. The book is called "The Dark Secrets of SHTF Survival". He doesn't go into equipment so much as how it really was (for him and in the situation in his city/country). The reality is brutal and terrifying, and he points out many mistaken beliefs that many preppers have that could get them killed. It's absolutely the best book of its kind I've ever read. Clearly, English is not his first language, but it's in his own words, and IMO his words carry weight. Anyone who is interested in survival in a possible SHTF situation owes it to themselves to read it.

BTW, I have no financial stake in the book. But his account is brutally honest, even admitting that he himself, at the onset of his SHTF, he was not aware until it was already too late, and he was stuck in it. He also goes into the aftermath that many of the survivors face after SHTF ends.

Jim

[demoncase]

I think one of the core issues would be power: If you could somehow have an engine that can run on a wide-range of materials, such as something able to burn vegetable oils and materials found in nature, you would be alot better off than one which required specialized gasoline.

Like pretty much every diesel engine already can, then?

Yes. This, infact, leads to a sub-question I have: Pound for pound when it comes to general utility and usefulness, would you say diesel engines are better for people to use than more restrictive gasoline engines or not? This gets a bit off into the "fringe conspiracy world" of things but I once spoke with a man who was into alternative energy technologies and he made the claim that the establishment put a damper for the most part on diesel engines because they can run on a wide range of fuel, and while they obviously are produced and used, the main advertising focus, according to this person, is put on the gasoline engines because they want to sell you more gasoline than diesel. What do you say to his claim?

There's no damper on diesel engines globally.
It's only cheap petrol prices in the US that make them unpopular there.

Historically they have been noisy, rumbly, lower powered than their petrol counterparts and dirty.

Technology has made them quiet, smooth, of similar power and cleaner (but still tending to soot).....new laws on city air quality may push them out of the market in the next few years.

They have always been much more economical, much less prone to stalling, better in cold temperatures and less impacted by moisture (no plugs you see). All trucks, HGVs, and most taxis are diesels here.

I drive a diesel Vauxhall Insignia because it turns in 80mpg without any hybrid bobbins. My last 6 cars have all been diesels (Volvo S60, Ford Mondeo, Rover 75 and 3 Peugeot 205s)

[JD Spydo]

It can sometimes be fun to speculate on how a SHTF scenario might happen, and what we might do. But there is a book written by Selco Begovic, a survivor of the 1990s Balkan war, who writes about what REALLY happened to him in a very real SHTF situation, which lasted for a year. During that year, there was no law and no government help. The book is called "The Dark Secrets of SHTF Survival". He doesn't go into equipment so much as how it really was (for him and in the situation in his city/country). The reality is brutal and terrifying, and he points out many mistaken beliefs that many preppers have that could get them killed. It's absolutely the best book of its kind I've ever read. Clearly, English is not his first language, but it's in his own words, and IMO his words carry weight. Anyone who is interested in survival in a possible SHTF situation owes it to themselves to read it.

BTW, I have no financial stake in the book. But his account is brutally honest, even admitting that he himself, at the onset of his SHTF, he was not aware until it was already too late, and he was stuck in it. He also goes into the aftermath that many of the survivors face after SHTF ends.

That's most interesting Jim. Because I've stated to many of my friends and people I've met at meetings on the subject that you as an individual just don't know what you're going to do until you are in a SHTF situation>> and not every situation is the same either. It would truly depend on what type of tradgedy or disaster you would be in the middle of.

For instance if you were in a natural disaster like a massive earthquake or a tornado or hurricane it would be quite different than a stock market crash ( equivalent to the one we had in 1929) or a complete societal breakdown or GOD forbid an all out civil war. Every situation is truly going to be vastly different. Bartering will be an option but yet it also could be extremely dangerous as well. You might also find out who your true friends really are or in a negative sense who they "ARE NOT" When I had my financial trainwreck of 2009 I was really surprised that even people I had known for almost 20 years wouldn't even return my phone calls And in a brutal societal or economic breakdown ( which would be far worse than what I went through in 2009) you might only have maybe one true friend you can count on. In all the years I've been on this planet I've never seen people as fake as many of them are now. And that's a survival problem all it's own and potentially one of the most difficult at that. Because a fake friend can do far more harm to you than a known enemy.